If my shift starts at 6pm and my lorry is not available until 8pm should I show 6 till 8pm as POA.?
Thanks
Steve1959:
If my shift starts at 6pm and my lorry is not available until 8pm should I show 6 till 8pm as POA.?
You can do but assuming that you get paid for breaks I’d book it as break, if you book 5 or 10 minutes other work at the start of the shift then the rest as break you’ll have your WTD break done and dusted, you’ll just have to remember not to work more than 6 hours without a 15 minute break, but depending on the type of work you’re doing it’s likely that your driving breaks will take care of that anyway.
Steve1959:
If my shift starts at 6pm and my lorry is not available until 8pm should I show 6 till 8pm as POA.?
Thanks
Find another job?
What are you doing for 2 hours? Other work?
Is this a one off? Or does it always happen?
Strictly for Poa you need to know the length of the wait.
Make it work for you, which depends mainly on how you are paid and whether if you have to be stood down for a week due to excess hours building up you are paid stand down money, some opertors do some don’t.
Salaried? using POA for this time will mean you are giving them 2 hours of your time for nothing in return, happens every evening thats 10 hours a week free.
Paid by the hour? well if you want to get the extra hours in, especially if hours over 8 (daily) or 40 (weekly) are paid at enhanced rate, then it might suit you to book at least the majority of the time as POA allowing you more scope to maximise OT rate.
Many companies will try to coerce you into using POA so they can milk excess hours out of you, preferably at cost to you not them, don’t let it happen like this…if it suits you for other (financial gain mainly) reasons then by all means milk it.
Many companies will try to coerce you into using POA so they can milk excess hours out of you, preferably at cost to you not them
How does that work? It’s working time, is it not?
TruckerGuy:
Many companies will try to coerce you into using POA so they can milk excess hours out of you, preferably at cost to you not them
How does that work? It’s working time, is it not?
The whole entire point of POA is that it is not working time…
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Roymondo:
The whole entire point of POA is that it is not working time…
This is why these discussions are so useful!
The way it is explained is hardly very clear in any of the places I have read it so far. 
So… POA is NOT working time, NOT driving time (obviously), and NOT break either. It’s nothing time. BUT with the catch you are not able to leave work, and must know in advance how long you are POA for (which in this case, he does).
Is the catch a contractual one then, whereby an employer will not count it as “working time” because it doesn’t count as working time, even though you’re at work and unable to leave? i.e. the only way to not get caught out by POA is to ensure that POA time will be considered as working time for payment purposes?
The purpose of POA is simply to allow the driver to be “at work” (and therefore being paid) without clocking up any working time. Thus our happy driver can book 70 hours a week, every week, without exceeding Working Time limits. This may or may not be considered advantageous by both the driver and the employer.
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TruckerGuy:
Many companies will try to coerce you into using POA so they can milk excess hours out of you, preferably at cost to you not them
How does that work? It’s working time, is it not?
Roymondo has already cleared that one up.
However, an example of a company abusing you via POA.
Operator pays you a daily rate for however long the job takes, job and finish they like to flower it up as.
The job is supposed to take 11 hours, but you get 2 hours delay at one place 3 times every week, its other work far as i’m concerned but the operator coerces you into putting it down as POA, he does this every time.
This means every week you have worked (by definition being at work even if slumped in the passenger seat, you aint at home with the mrs) at least 6 hours over and above your 48, you’ve given him 6 hours and he’ll take another 6 next week and the week after forever, all free because you’re on a daily salary penalising yourself by using POA.
If you booked this as other work he’d be more inclined to get the delay dealt with or change your run towards the end of the week (or however they work it out) to keep your hours down, by booking the POA you’re increasing your working hours and/or reducing your average hourly rate because working more hours for no extra pay.
Course if you’re hourly paid, and get paid POA then by all means be as helpful as possible.
As i said above, what suits you and it all depends on how you are paid.
That is nice and clear! Thanks!!
Where I am, if at the end of the reference period, drivers are over the 48 average and even doing regular shifts won’t bring it down enough, they have said they will consider unpaid leave.
To keep options open for busy periods where I will get paid reasonably well for overtime, at the moment I am doing around 48 hours, but whenever I am genuinely waiting, I will put the tacho on POA. It keeps the average down a bit.
At the start of a shift, I will always show 15 minutes work, but if I am waiting a couple of hours for a run, I put 1h 45m of POA. Similarly if I am waiting to get in somewhere, it goes on POA.
WARNING: many tachos (possibly all I dunno) reset the driving when you have been sitting for over 45 minutes on POA. When downloaded the driving WON’T have been reset, so you have to remember how much driving you have left.
Noremac:
WARNING: many tachos (possibly all I dunno) reset the driving when you have been sitting for over 45 minutes on POA. When downloaded the driving WON’T have been reset, so you have to remember how much driving you have left.
Which is exactly why I always advise people to use break if they get paid for them, we’ve seen so many drivers on this board get their driving hours screwed up because they used POA without knowing it would reset the driving time on the tachograph display.
Noremac:
Where I am, if at the end of the reference period, drivers are over the 48 average and even doing regular shifts won’t bring it down enough, they have said they will consider unpaid leave.To keep options open for busy periods where I will get paid reasonably well for overtime, at the moment I am doing around 48 hours, but whenever I am genuinely waiting, I will put the tacho on POA. It keeps the average down a bit.
At the start of a shift, I will always show 15 minutes work, but if I am waiting a couple of hours for a run, I put 1h 45m of POA. Similarly if I am waiting to get in somewhere, it goes on POA.
WARNING: many tachos (possibly all I dunno) reset the driving when you have been sitting for over 45 minutes on POA. When downloaded the driving WON’T have been reset, so you have to remember how much driving you have left.
I believe they all do, as some EU states allow POA to be used as rest.
Roymondo:
TruckerGuy:
Many companies will try to coerce you into using POA so they can milk excess hours out of you, preferably at cost to you not them
How does that work? It’s working time, is it not?
The whole entire point of POA is that it is not working time…
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What about POA on standby shifts, is this also not counted as working time? Can ‘‘rest’’ mode legally be used for standby shifts, note the use of the word ‘‘legally’’.
shullbit:
Roymondo:
TruckerGuy:
Many companies will try to coerce you into using POA so they can milk excess hours out of you, preferably at cost to you not them
How does that work? It’s working time, is it not?
The whole entire point of POA is that it is not working time…
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What about POA on standby shifts, is this also not counted as working time? Can ‘‘rest’’ mode legally be used for standby shifts, note the use of the word ‘‘legally’’.
What’s a standby shift?
( Are you at home? Or sat in a waiting room?)
I am thinking at home watching TV or doing the garden etc.
Standby cannot be counted as rest - that is the only rule I know about regarding that issue
shullbit:
I am thinking at home watching TV or doing the garden etc.
In my CPC I was taught that you could count it as rest if you were on call, and only required to answer the phone, but had the option not to answer the phone if you so choose, then it would count as rest. IIRC
I would say that if you’re on standby at home waiting for a call to return to work you cannot dispose of your time freely so it cannot be used as rest, it’s a perfect example of a period of availability.
stu675:
In my CPC I was taught that you could count it as rest if you were on call, and only required to answer the phone, but had the option not to answer the phone if you so choose, then it would count as rest
Surely if you’re at home and have the option of not answering the phone that’s called NOT being on call and that’s why it could be booked as rest 
stu675:
shullbit:
I am thinking at home watching TV or doing the garden etc.In my CPC I was taught that you could count it as rest if you were on call, and only required to answer the phone, but had the option not to answer the phone if you so choose, then it would count as rest. IIRC
I don’t listen to the BS spouted by some of these CPC instructors, one of them told the people on the course I was on that we are allowed to use the hard shoulder if we run out of slip road when joining the motorway ‘‘thats what its there for’’ 