Hi, I’m after a little advice.
My company keeps banging on and on about me not getting enough POA in and saying that I won’t be able to work come the end of my period.
This is fair enough but as I do not have a choice in what runs I have through the week, is it not upto them to make sure I am within my working hours over the 26 week period?
They can’t seem to get it in their heads that the reason I don’t get much in is because I can’t go on POA travelling up and down the M6 all week and the fact that most of the other drivers at our place stay local as the transport manager doesn’t like upsetting them with distance runs means that they don’t have this problem.
So basically, a few of us do most of the distance while the rest just stay local… Sat on bays all day and in the yard on POA hence they never have this problem.
Thanks
L33BRR:
Hi, I’m after a little advice.
My company keeps banging on and on about me not getting enough POA in and saying that I won’t be able to work come the end of my period.
This is fair enough but as I do not have a choice in what runs I have through the week, is it not upto them to make sure I am within my working hours over the 26 week period?
They can’t seem to get it in their heads that the reason I don’t get much in is because I can’t go on POA travelling up and down the M6 all week and the fact that most of the other drivers at our place stay local as the transport manager doesn’t like upsetting them with distance runs means that they don’t have this problem.
So basically, a few of us do most of the distance while the rest just stay local… Sat on bays all day and in the yard on POA hence they never have this problem.
Thanks
It’s up-to both the employer and the driver to ensure that you don’t average more than 48 hours over the reference period, but it’s up-to your company to plan your jobs so that you can stay within the average working time of 48 hours.
I was doing a Class 2 Furniture Delivery and Installation job once and one of the drivers mates said ‘Make Sure you use POA on the drops or you’ll be going over your average weekly hours’. I pointed out that I worked for a furniture delivery company and therefore the tacho needed to show ‘other work’ as VOSA would expect this too.
He was adamant that the TM had told him to use POA :-/
There’s no legal requirement to ever use POA.
L33BRR:
is it not upto them to make sure I am within my working hours over the 26 week period?
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/4/made
(8) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety of the mobile worker, to ensure that the limits specified above are complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him.
Mike-C:
L33BRR:
is it not upto them to make sure I am within my working hours over the 26 week period?
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/4/made
(8) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety of the mobile worker, to ensure that the limits specified above are complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him.
That’s is correct, it’s a shame it has nothing to do with POA or the average 48 hour week really 
The regulation you’ve quoted and linked to refers to rest periods, article 17.(1) states “Any person who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence”
tachograph:
The regulation you’ve quoted and linked to refers to rest periods,
Thats strange as section 4 which i linked to is specifically titled “working time”, i thought section 8 dealt with rest periods?
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/8/made
Mike-C:
tachograph:
The regulation you’ve quoted and linked to refers to rest periods,
Thats strange as section 4 which i linked to is specifically titled “working time”, i thought section 8 dealt with rest periods?
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/8/made
You’re right, that was my mistake 
Though to be honest it doesn’t make any difference, because although there’s no doubt that an employer has a obligation to ensure the employee complies with the regulations, so does the employee.
L33BRR:
Hi, I’m after a little advice.
My company keeps banging on and on about me not getting enough POA in and saying that I won’t be able to work come the end of my period.
This is fair enough but as I do not have a choice in what runs I have through the week, is it not upto them to make sure I am within my working hours over the 26 week period?
They can’t seem to get it in their heads that the reason I don’t get much in is because I can’t go on POA travelling up and down the M6 all week and the fact that most of the other drivers at our place stay local as the transport manager doesn’t like upsetting them with distance runs means that they don’t have this problem.
So basically, a few of us do most of the distance while the rest just stay local… Sat on bays all day and in the yard on POA hence they never have this problem.
Thanks
Muppets !
FFS. Have all good TM’s and planners retired . With all the spy in the cab stuff its impossible to take the proverbial nowadays.
tachograph:
Though to be honest it doesn’t make any difference, because although there’s no doubt that an employer has a obligation to ensure the employee complies with the regulations, so does the employee.
Just to be pedantic it doesn’t mention an employee ensuring anything. It just says contravention is an offence.
So i’d say there is a difference. The employer should ensure compliance, it states that.
I like section 18 
Offences due to fault of other person.
18 Where the commission by any person of an offence is due to the act or default of some other person, that other person shall be guilty of the offence, and a person may be charged with the conviction of the offence by virtue of this regulation whether or not proceedings are taken against the first-mentioned person.
How do you ensure compliance?..“oh we leave it to the driver, we send him on a tacho course so he knows his hours”…might not be the right answer. “ensure” to me at least, means to check and if neccesary instruct. “get more POA in” might not be a reasonable instruction either, especially in the OP’s case as he’s driving.
The regulations don’t say that the employee has to “ensure” anything, that was my phrase and not meant to be taken literally as a quote from the regulations.
But I’m guessing you knew that 
This is a bit academic anyway, because from the opening post it appears that the OPs employer will stop him working over the 48 hour average anyway
My company keeps banging on and on about me not getting enough POA in and saying that I won’t be able to work come the end of my period
The point I’m trying to make is that responsibility for complying with the regulation is not just down to the employer, article 17.(1) states “Any person who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence”.
The only real solution to the OPs problem is of course for the company to plan his jobs so he can comply with the 48 hour average week without having to lose time towards the end of the reference period, which of course is what they should have been doing all along.
tachograph:
The regulations don’t say that the employee has to “ensure” anything, that was my phrase and not meant to be taken literally as a quote from the regulations.
But I’m guessing you knew that
This is a bit academic anyway, because from the opening post it appears that the OPs employer will stop him working over the 48 hour average anyway
My company keeps banging on and on about me not getting enough POA in and saying that I won’t be able to work come the end of my period
He asked if his employer is responsible for his hours. His employer is responsible for his hours under both the WTD regs and EU drivers hours regs.
tachograph:
The point I’m trying to make is that responsibility for complying with the regulation is not just down to the employer, article 17.(1) states “Any person who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence”.
“compliance” is different to “responsability”. We can establish if the regs are contravened then an offence has been comitted. Both regs place an onus upon the employer to ensure compliance.
tachograph:
The only real solution to the OPs problem is of course for the company to plan his jobs so he can comply with the 48 hour average week without having to lose time towards the end of the reference period, which of course is what they should have been doing all along.
Thats the bit they’re struggling with, so they’re leaning on him and thats why he asking where he stands.