Cruise Control:
So when I’m a 2 man crew my card in slot 2 then swap over it says I’ve had 45mins break on tacho. Surely that counts if I been asleep etc? Confused.
The 1st 45 mins of the POA mode will count as driver 2’s break. The point is BED mode cannot be selected on moving vehicle.I think it’s something to do with mode switch not being pressed on tacho. whilst driver 1 is trying to drive. Or iirc, something to do with old AETR rules in non-EU member states…could be wrong here?
Daz1970:
stevieboy308:
Daz1970:
The only time the mode of POA can be used as a break is when double-manning & the non-driving crew member is allowed to take his break in a moving vehicle. The digital tacho. will only allow the POA mode for driver 2 whilst moving. The 1st 45 mins. of this POA will be regarded as a break, providing driver 2 isn’t carrying out duties- if this is the case it’s other work - which should be recorded as such on a printout.If single-manning & taking a break from driving - for it to be classed as a break it should be uninterrupted minimum 15 mins. and the digital tacho mode should show the BED symbol.
couldn’t you just select other work on the second slot?
Only when stationary, as soon as vehicle moves…mode for driver 2 defaults to POA. The other work whilst moving could be, for instance navigating or phoning ahead to customer (done by driver 2 of course).
that’s a bit bonkers, i knew you couldn’t select bed on the move
Tafty:
POA does have a use as it can be used to reduce you overall working/duty time, if you work long days, provided it is taken correctly. By using it intelligently you can help control you weekly and average weekly working hours to keep within the RTWTR.
Same as a break!!! I think most driver’s who use POA do so because their company says so, or they don’t get paid all their breaks.
Tafty:
POA does have a use as it can be used to reduce you overall working/duty time, if you work long days, provided it is taken correctly. By using it intelligently you can help control you weekly and average weekly working hours to keep within the RTWTR.
Using break can do that as well and then there’s no arsjng about
stevieboy308:
Daz1970:
stevieboy308:
Daz1970:
The only time the mode of POA can be used as a break is when double-manning & the non-driving crew member is allowed to take his break in a moving vehicle. The digital tacho. will only allow the POA mode for driver 2 whilst moving. The 1st 45 mins. of this POA will be regarded as a break, providing driver 2 isn’t carrying out duties- if this is the case it’s other work - which should be recorded as such on a printout.If single-manning & taking a break from driving - for it to be classed as a break it should be uninterrupted minimum 15 mins. and the digital tacho mode should show the BED symbol.
couldn’t you just select other work on the second slot?
Only when stationary, as soon as vehicle moves…mode for driver 2 defaults to POA. The other work whilst moving could be, for instance navigating or phoning ahead to customer (done by driver 2 of course).
that’s a bit bonkers, i knew you couldn’t select bed on the move
Why bonkers■■? Think of a two-man crew on a coach tour…2nd driver frequently does ‘other work’ such as sightseeing commentary for passengers through PA system.
I see what you mean stevieboy - bonkers that mode can’t be changed whilst moving!!!
Daz1970:
I see what you mean stevieboy - bonkers that mode can’t be changed whilst moving!!!
that’s the one 
2 modes can be selected in the second drivers slot: poa and other work, while the vehicle is moving 
bristolron:
I don’t know why people bother with all this POA crap. Reading posts on here shows it’s more hassle than it’s worth.
If you are not actually working then just stick it on break. It don’t count as duty time and serves the same purpose as POA.
I never use POA whatsoever and have never had a problem.
Its not more hassle than its worth, its just morons who can’t be bothered to exercise the one remaining braincell they have. Bone idle lazy barstewards who can’t be bothered to learn the stuff they need to know to do their job. Its not even as if its something new. Its been in force for coming up to a decade.
Is it a waste of time unless you max your duty time like I used to. Then it was a few handball jobs done on poa here and there. I don’t need it on tippers now, just use waiting time as a 10 minute break here and there.
TTX boy:
NO NO NO !How many more times do stupid drivers need to be told…POA is period of availability NOT a break !
A Break is a break and NOTHING else !!!
Lord give me strength.
I’ve given up 
Rikki can you get a wall banging what’s it put up
What is a period of availability?
Generally speaking a period of availability (PoA) is waiting time, the
duration of which is known about in advance by the mobile worker. Under the
Regulations, these periods have to meet the following criteria:
a mobile worker should not be required to remain at their workstation;
(but) they must be available to answer calls to start work or resume
driving on request;
the period and the foreseeable duration should be known in advance by the
mobile worker, either before departure or just before the start of the
period in question.
Like breaks and rest periods, a PoA can be taken at the workstation.
Providing the mobile worker has a reasonable amount of freedom (e.g. they
can relax and read), for a known duration, this would satisfy the
requirements for a PoA. Where the mobile worker knows about a delay in
advance, but it is deemed prudent that they should remain in the cab for
reasons of security or safety, this should not in itself, disqualify this
delay being recorded as a PoA. Typical examples might include waiting at a
site that is unsafe for pedestrians or staying in a vehicle carrying high
value goods or cash.
Mobile workers do not need to be formally notified about a PoA and its
duration in advance. It is enough that they know about it (and the
foreseeable duration), in advance either before departure or just before
the actual start of the period in question. A PoA would be deemed to be
known in advance by a mobile worker if, for example:
someone (who does not have to be their employer) has told them, or
they have arrived too early for their allocated slot, or
they always experience a delay at one of their regular customers.
A PoA does not apply to delays where the mobile worker has to continue
working. For example, where a driver is diverted due to a road closure,
he/she would still be driving. Normally, delays due to congestion would
also count as working time because the driver would be stopping and
starting the vehicle. If a mobile worker is monitoring a discharge from the
vehicle (e.g. petrol at filling station), this time will also count as
working time.
There are no requirements as to the minimum and maximum length of a PoA.
Examples of a PoA:
Situations when a period of time could be recorded as a PoA (provided the
“known in advance” pre-condition is met)
Time when accompanying a vehicle being transported by boat or train.
Time spent waiting at frontiers.
Periods of waiting due to traffic prohibitions. Traffic prohibitions would
include where the police have delayed the movement of an abnormal load for
a set period of time, or where vehicles are banned from city centres during
specified hours, and the driver has to park the vehicle and wait.
When driving or travelling as part of a team, time spent sitting next to
the driver while the vehicle is in motion, unless the mobile worker is
taking a break or performing any other work (e.g. navigation). This time
(or a part of it) could also be counted as a break - but would need to be
recorded as such. Other travelling staff may also count travelling time as
a PoA, provided they are not performing any other work.
When a mobile worker experiences a delay at a regional distribution centre
or depot, waiting for someone to load or unload their vehicle, if they know
about the length of the delay at the start of the period (because someone
has told them; because they have arrived too early for their slot; or
because they always experience a delay at one of their regular customers).
If a mobile worker typically experiences a 1 hour delay at one of their
regular customers, then this would count as a PoA. However, if they were to
unexpectedly experience a 2 hour delay, then the second hour would count as
working time. Unless the mobile worker was notified, before the end of the
first hour, that a further hours delay was expected, in which case the
second hour would also count as a PoA.
Where a mobile worker reports for work, is informed that they are not
required to undertake any duties for a specified period (albeit, they need
to remain on site to answer calls and be ready to take up work), but is
free to wait in the canteen or rest facility.
If the vehicle breaks down and the mobile worker is told how long it will
take to be rescued.
Situations when a period of time should not be recorded as a PoA
Where a driver is diverted due to a road closure, he/she would still be
driving so the period could not be counted as a PoA.
Delays due to congestion (i.e. stuck in a traffic jam) would not count as a
PoA because the driver would be stopping and starting the vehicle.
If a mobile worker is monitoring activity by others, (e.g. petrol at
filling station, or the unloading of the lorry), this time would count as
working time rather than a PoA.
Frequently moving up within a queue (e.g. waiting within a queue to load or
unload) every other minute would not qualify as a PoA.
When the duration of the PoA is not known in advance, for example if a
mobile worker was told to arrive at 9am and then leave at any time up to
1pm this would not be a PoA as the duration is not known.
It will be interesting to see who disagrees
fleettraineruk:
Like breaks and rest periods, a PoA can be taken at the workstation.
For the EU 561/2006 regs yes but for RTD the answer seems to be no
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/2/made
check out the bottom few paragraphs
I love POA and use it all the time 
I would tend to agree that if you are on duty for around eight hours per day then it may as well possibly not be used but where a drivers duty time is longer than this I think that it is a valuable part of the tacho tool kit
Without having POA, this can well and truly screw up your break requirements.
Some come on guys, give POA a chance
Lusk:
Without having POA, this can well and truly screw up your break requirements.
How so?
ROG:
Lusk:
Without having POA, this can well and truly screw up your break requirements.How so?
Erm… 
Right, here goes:
A driver’s work for the day consists of driving from his depot (Point A) to the RDC at Point B. Once he has tipped at the RDC, he then goes back to his depot, swaps trailer and then goes back to the RDC, tips and then returns to his depot where he finishes his duty.
It take the driver two hours to drive from Point A to Point B and then of course the same back again. The offloading time at the RDC varies between 30 mins and two hours. The routing schedule has made provision for the driver to take his 45 mins upon arrival at Point A following the return from tipping at the RDC.
Assume that the driver is on his first load, he gets to the RDC and he puts the tacho on break and the offloading takes one hour. He has now reset his driving time and this means that he can drive for another 4.5hrs. He then gets back to his depot, swaps trailers, makes his way back to the RDC and is tipped in 30 mins. Of course now, he has not enough time to get back to Point A because he has to take a break. Had he of put his tacho onto POA at the RDC the first time, then it would not have been necessary to take a second break.
This is just an example and of course it may have been beneficial for him to have taken a break at the first drop. The point I am trying to make is that, IMO, POA is there as a good tool.
ROG:
Lusk:
Without having POA, this can well and truly screw up your break requirements.How so?
5 hours from the yard, you’ve done 2 hours driving, you’re going to be sat for 2 hours, sticking on break means a 45 on the way back, just have a 15 then poa means a 30 on the way back
Sso is a POA legit for a tipper driver being slowly loaded on site ie with a small digger, and he has a weighloader? The reason I said weighloader is that he doesn’t need to check how much is in the back physically, except look at a screen or wait for it to beep.
stevieboy308:
ROG:
Lusk:
Without having POA, this can well and truly screw up your break requirements.How so?
5 hours from the yard, you’ve done 2 hours driving, you’re going to be sat for 2 hours, sticking on break means a 45 on the way back, just have a 15 then poa means a 30 on the way back
So a 15 minute difference - I can see how that might cause an issue especially if it takes a driver into reduced rest territory
Muckaway:
Sso is a POA legit for a tipper driver being slowly loaded on site ie with a small digger, and he has a weighloader? The reason I said weighloader is that he doesn’t need to check how much is in the back physically, except look at a screen or wait for it to beep.
I would say either POA if waiting time was stated or break could be used - its no different to being told that there is about a 1 hour wait at an RDC and the shunter will knock on the cab when they are ready for you
