this week i have been out as a second man 1 day and shared the driving on another day.
For one reason and another i had reason to question my total hours. they said i had 9 hours odd of poa and had deducted that from my working time.
The question is this, if i am sat loosy goosy in the passenger seat im still at work and will be expected to jump out and help unload etc etc so therefore should it not count as working time.
Is there a specific question?
Was your card in slot 2 recording POA (expected) if so yes, POA is not counted as working time. If you’re helping with Other Work such as unloading, that isn’t POA.
sorry im shattered
you’re right my card was in slot two when i wasn’t driving obviously when i was helping at the drop it was on other work.
It seems counter intuitive to me that in an extreme situation someone could work 90 hours ie 5 15’s but only rack up an hour or two a day work once poa and breaks are deducted.
im not saying i did that as i was driving on the other days so obviously had to abide by the other rules
Surely 2nd driver is otherwork rather than POA? Why set to poa? It doesn’t increase the shift and lions like you’d lose pay!
Nope, when acting as a second driver with your card in slot 2 and you are not doing any work you can record POA.
In fact slot 2 automatically defaults to POA when the vehicle moves, though I’m not sure whether or not this can now be changed in the tachograph settings to default to other work.
Most if not all companies pay for POA, if you work for a company that does not pay for POA you should look for another job in my opinion 
I would assume that once you stop and if you’re going to do some loading or whatever you should flick it over to other work.
The question is were you docked any pay?
dont think i will be they pay breaks so no reason they wont pay poa.
to be honest i forgot all about changing it to other work but i assume it did it automatically either that or the driver did it for me as the shift was longer than the total poa and i had my card in slot two earlier in the week when i shared the driving with someone else.
next time i have a second man with me i will look and see if it defaults to poa (im pretty sure it does) however what happens if it is turned to other work then the vehicle stops does it revert back to poa or does it stay on other work once the vehicle starts moving again.
Which is it?
Look at your Contract of Employment, and talk to them.
As already said above the Tacho will be on POA all the time you are in the passenger seat and the vehicle is moving.
It may or may not change when the vehicle stops, just as tachos can revert to Break or Duty.
It is little to do with Tachos but to do with how you are paid.
really??
i said…
so like breaks are deducted from the working time for total hours they had deducted 9 hours as well for poa.
nothing to do with wages… however if i clock in at 04:30 and clock out at 16::30 i get paid 12 hours even though i would of had breaks
ie 12 hours pay for 12 hours work 12 - breaks and poa added to my working time
So…you were not short paid?
I thought that is what this thread was all about!
no sorry it was about working time
i wasnt going to say this because i cant be arsed with 2 pages of crap telling me im working too much.
tuesday i did 04:30 to 19:30 (15 hrs)
wednesday i did 04:30 to 18:45 (14.25 hrs)
thursday i did 04:30 to 17:30 (13 hrs) some poa
friday i did 04:30 to 16:45 (12.25 hrs) no driving as second man
so come my shift on saturday (yesterday) i had done a total of 54.5 hrs inc breaks and poa hence why i wanted to know how many working hours i had done so i didnt go over the magic 60
the question was and maybe i didnt word it quite right was were they correct in taking aprox 9 hours off my working time for poa to calculate my hours for the weekly max. If i had discovered that they didnt pay poa they would of had an appointment with a proctologist to get the vehicle keys back
The Tachomaster app is handy to keep track of this. Could be worth asking them if you can get access to it.
Quite right too!
Quote
“POAs do not however count towards a driver’s working time total under The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 (see Annex 2 for more information on working time rules).”
As said already
When you are in passenger seat with your card in slot 2, it will record POA. When the vehicle stops?
Maybe down to tacho set-up as slot 1 can be set to revert to either duty or to break. You need to look and see.
next time im double manned i will check but as the poa totaled aprox 9 hrs over a full day of just over 12 hrs and i wasnt driving some of the time the day before i assume it reverts to other work but i will check.
Yes
For 20 character minimum, also: oui, si, hai, ja & da
sorry meant to reply to you. i have never managed to get thing to work it always asks me for some code which apparently is my “employee id/payrole id” last time i attempted this but the app asks for that as well and tells me its a different number.
i should of done some print outs and worked it out myself i guess
as i said it seems odd to me.
i could do 6 * 15 hr days as a second man with a different driver each day 10 hrs driving each day and an hour for breaks means i only “worked” for 24 hours ie four hours a day. Seems to me another good reason not to use poa
The again i just remembered what you said about a company that had their drivers sit in the canteen for 8 hours a day for a week
Ah yea I forget my username and password all the time!
Yes, for reference that was the large Argos depot in Darlington (Faverdale Ind Est for those more local to me)