It seems fairly clear to me - If you work in excess of six hours you are entitled to a break of at least 30 minutes. This break must be taken during the shift (i.e. not right at the end of it) but doesn’t have to be taken all in one chunk, as long as the “chunks” are at least 15 minutes in duration.
So you could work for half an hour, take a 15 minute “chunk”, work for 5 and a half hours, take another 15 minute “chunk” then work for another two hours before finishing your shift. You would have had your 30 minute break (in two 15 minute “chunks”) and would not have worked for more than six continuous hours.
delboy98:
…but you would need a FURTHER 15 mins break before the end of any period between 6 and 9 hours work
But only if your working time was going to be no more than 9 hours. If it is going to be longer you can take the second part of the break later, as long as you don’t exceed 12 hours without taking at least 15 minutes, or 30 minutes if you are not going to work more than 12 hours. If you are working more than 12, you would need a third period of 15 minutes before the end of your shift.
Mind you it hasn’t been an issue for me on the last two nights. Each night was an11 hour shift, 140 kilometres driven and 7 hours 35 minutes of break. Now that’s what I call work.
Roymondo:
It seems fairly clear to me - If you work in excess of six hours you are entitled to a break of at least 30 minutes. This break must be taken during the shift (i.e. not right at the end of it) but doesn’t have to be taken all in one chunk, as long as the “chunks” are at least 15 minutes in duration.
So you could work for half an hour, take a 15 minute “chunk”, work for 5 and a half hours, take another 15 minute “chunk” then work for another two hours before finishing your shift. You would have had your 30 minute break (in two 15 minute “chunks”) and would not have worked for more than six continuous hours.
When 6 hrs work time has elapsed a 30 minute break must be taken, the 6 hrs is ONLY made up of Other Work or Driving or a combination of both. If however during the 6 hrs period you have already taken a minimum of 15 minutes rest, then a further 15 minutes is all that is required If however, during the 6 hrs period a total of 4.5 hrs driving is completed then the 45minute break must be taken as per drivers hrs regs, the 30 minutes may be used towards the 45 minute break.
Now that was from the Original Post I made in this thread and I stand by it
Can I point you all in the direction of my original post.
pedroski:
Don’t know if this has been discussed, but had a conversation with my TM today regarding POA and breaks.
Here’s the scenario.
Driving for 1.5 hours. Arrive at drop. Told to wait for an hour. OK then stick it on POA for an hour. Drop done and get ready to set off.
The question, is does the driving time clock now reset (as a minimum of 45min has elapsed) so you can now do another 4.5 hours driving before a 45min break or do you have to take a 45 min after 3 hours driving?
My TM thinks POA does not count toward the 45min break.
I thinks it does.
Who is right?
This has arisen as I have driven a digi tacho motor and the accumulated driving timer in the display on the tacho DOES reset on the above scenario, and also on a Merc Axor which has a timer on the dash which is connected to the (analogue) tacho also displays the same characteristics.
I have checked on the DFT web site and I quote
Q. How are breaks calculated when a driver has also taken a period of
availability?
Breaks requirements under working time legislation are triggered by the
amount of working time that is performed, rather than the length of shift or
attendance time (see example 4 over the page). In addition, there is nothing
to prevent a mobile worker taking a break in the middle of a period of
availability, as long as they meet all the appropriate requirements for taking a
break.
HELP
All I wanted to know is why a digi tacho uses POA to reset the driving clock (ie. another 4.5 hours driving) after 45 mins
All I wanted to know is why a digi tacho uses POA to reset the driving clock (ie. another 4.5 hours driving) after 45 mins
The vehicle unit will add breaks and POA together and reset after 45 mins. This is because some countries within the European Union do not differenciate between breaks and POA. It is therefore down to you to keep an accurate log of your time, and you still have to change the activity mode accordingly, as the different modes will still show up on the print-out.
The digital tacho will add periods of availability (of 15 minutes duration, or more) to periods of break / rest (of 15 minutes duration, or more), once the magic 45 minutes total is achieved, then the ■■■■■■■■■■ driving counter wil be reset to zero and the 4.5 hour period will start afresh.
Don’t ask me why the machine does this, other than the Regulations contained in Annex 1B of 3821/85 say this is how the device will work. For the answer to your question you would have to find the original team that came up with the idea . Certainy enforcement agencies do not regard ‘availability’ as ‘break / rest.’ The definitions given in 561/2006 and 3820/85 are quite explicit and cleraly separate the two types of activity (or inactivity ).
This is how ■■■■■■■■■■ driving is defined; The current accumulated driving times of a particular driver, since the end of his last AVAILABILITY or BREAK/REST or UNKNOWN period of 45 minutes or more (this period may have been split in several periods of 15 minutes or more).
This is how ■■■■■■■■■■ break / rest is defined; The current accumulated AVAILABILITY or BREAK/REST or UNKNOWN times of 15 minutes or more of a particular driver, since the end of his last AVAILABILITY or BREAK/REST or UNKNOWN period of 45 minutes or more (this period may have been split in several periods of 15 minutes or more).
this is the definition of break (from 561/2006): 'break’ means any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation
So, the simple answer is; 'cos the Regulations say so!!
However, break is not availability.
Thanks, geebee45. That’s cleared it up for me.
I’ll have to go back to my TM now and tell him he’s right
Here’s another question.
Does using POA extend the need for a 30 min break under WTD
ie. Start duty at 0600, drive for 2 hours, then POA for 4 hours.
Do you need a 30 min at this point or can you work (drive or other work) for another 4 hours before there is a requirement for a 30min
You would still be able to carry out other works for 4 hours, but you would only be able to drive for 2 hours 30 minutes but then again you could drive for the 2 hours 30 mins and do 1 hour 30 minutes of other work before taking your break
pedroski:
Does using POA extend the need for a 30 min break under WTD
ie. Start duty at 0600, drive for 2 hours, then POA for 4 hours.
Do you need a 30 min at this point or can you work (drive or other work) for another 4 hours before there is a requirement for a 30min
No because you would of only achieved 2 hrs work by 12:00 so in effect you can work another 4 hrs before your 6 hrs has elapsed.
Which going back to my original post in this thread, if you treat the 4hrs POA as a break you could then extend your total shift to 16 hrs under Split Shift rules also as you’d had a 4 hr break you could drive for 4.5 hrs before requiring another break instead of 2.5 hrs
but then again you could drive for the 2 hours 30 mins and do 1 hour 30 minutes of other work before taking your break