Don’t know if this has been discussed, but had a conversation with my TM today regarding POA and breaks.
Here’s the scenario.
Driving for 1.5 hours. Arrive at drop. Told to wait for an hour. OK then stick it on POA for an hour. Drop done and get ready to set off.
The question, is does the driving time clock now reset (as a minimum of 45min has elapsed) so you can now do another 4.5 hours driving before a 45min break or do you have to take a 45 min after 3 hours driving?
My TM thinks POA does not count toward the 45min break.
I thinks it does.
Who is right?
This has arisen as I have driven a digi tacho motor and the accumulated driving timer in the display on the tacho DOES reset on the above scenario, and also on a Merc Axor which has a timer on the dash which is connected to the (analogue) tacho also displays the same characteristics.
I have checked on the DFT web site and I quote
Q. How are breaks calculated when a driver has also taken a period of
availability?
Breaks requirements under working time legislation are triggered by the
amount of working time that is performed, rather than the length of shift or
attendance time (see example 4 over the page). In addition, there is nothing
to prevent a mobile worker taking a break in the middle of a period of
availability, as long as they meet all the appropriate requirements for taking a
break.
HELP 
POA doesnt count as work or break.
if you drove for 1.5 hours then had 1hour POA you will have 3 hours drive time left.
Thats the way i look at it
Darren:
POA doesnt count as work or break.
if you drove for 1.5 hours then had 1hour POA you will have 3 hours drive time left.
Thats the way i look at it
Agreed!
Break is defined as ‘time free to dispose of how you choose’, or words to that effect. POA means you are in a period of availablilty (i.e. available to start working again if ‘they’ asked you to) and therefore not free to dispose of your time as you wish.
POA can’t therefore be classed as break.
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
marcustandy:
Break is defined as ‘time free to dispose of how you choose’, or words to that effect. POA means you are in a period of availablilty (i.e. available to start working again if ‘they’ asked you to) and therefore not free to dispose of your time as you wish.
POA can’t therefore be classed as break.
Not this old chestnut again. Why don’t you all just scrap POA? Just don’t do it. Forget all about it. Pretend it doesn’t exist!
When you go to work there’s only 2 things happening :
- You’re working, ie. driving or in back of trailer loading/unloading
- You’re resting, ie. on break
There is simply no such thing as being “available for work”. I don’t get why people find this so hard to grasp. 
northernirishinlpool:
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
unloading is other work.
when doing multi drop it is easy to not do only 4.5 hours driving in this case you combine the other work & driving to get the 6 hour rule, you need a 30mins break then.
POA is for when your sat at Tesco for 4 hours waiting for them to tip you.
I dont use it and probably never would unless i was asked to by my employer, just stick to other work (cross hammers) and break (bed symbol).
Rob K:
Darren:
northernirishinlpool:
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
unloading is other work.
when doing multi drop it is easy to not do only 4.5 hours driving in this case you combine the other work & driving to get the 6 hour rule, you need a 30mins break then.
15 minutes.
Have I misread something? I thought you had to take 30 mins break after 6hrs according to the WTD…
The new regulations require:
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required.
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
tintobg:
Rob K:
Darren:
northernirishinlpool:
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
unloading is other work.
when doing multi drop it is easy to not do only 4.5 hours driving in this case you combine the other work & driving to get the 6 hour rule, you need a 30mins break then.
15 minutes.
Have I misread something? I thought you had to take 30 mins break after 6hrs according to the WTD…
The new regulations require:
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required.
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
I ‘thought’ the same as you. But,
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
.
Minimum break is 15mins.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required
So you could have 15mins when your 6hrs is up, and have another 15mins when you’ve done another 2hrs work (for example, as totall work time will now be 8hrs)
Rob K:
Not this old chestnut again. Why don’t you all just scrap POA? Just don’t do it. Forget all about it. Pretend it doesn’t exist!
Your sentiment may be right, but in practice , the larger companies which ridgidly adhere to the WTD will not let you work the ‘extra’ hours . So if you want to do more than 48 hours a week you have to get your head around it and be able to book/use it.
Mike-C:
tintobg:
Rob K:
Darren:
northernirishinlpool:
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
unloading is other work.
when doing multi drop it is easy to not do only 4.5 hours driving in this case you combine the other work & driving to get the 6 hour rule, you need a 30mins break then.
15 minutes.
Have I misread something? I thought you had to take 30 mins break after 6hrs according to the WTD…
The new regulations require:
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required.
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
I ‘thought’ the same as you. But,
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
.
Minimum break is 15mins.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required
So you could have 15mins when your 6hrs is up, and have another 15mins when you’ve done another 2hrs work (for example, as totall work time will now be 8hrs)
But
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
So when do you need to take your 3rd 15 minute break? 
Bollox - i give up… 
I’ll stick with work, breaks and I’m offski and thats it 
Rob K:
Mike-C:
tintobg:
Rob K:
Darren:
northernirishinlpool:
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
unloading is other work.
when doing multi drop it is easy to not do only 4.5 hours driving in this case you combine the other work & driving to get the 6 hour rule, you need a 30mins break then.
15 minutes.
Have I misread something? I thought you had to take 30 mins break after 6hrs according to the WTD…
The new regulations require:
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required.
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
I ‘thought’ the same as you. But,
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
.
Minimum break is 15mins.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required
So you could have 15mins when your 6hrs is up, and have another 15mins when you’ve done another 2hrs work (for example, as totall work time will now be 8hrs)
But
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
So when do you need to take your 3rd 15 minute break?
As soon as you are going to go over 9 hrs?
tintobg:
[zb] - i give up…
I’ll stick with work, breaks and I’m offski and thats it
Same for most of us i think!!! I reckon VOSA might know even less than us about it!!
Mike-C:
Rob K:
Mike-C:
tintobg:
Rob K:
Darren:
northernirishinlpool:
now where on this topic… what is the six hour rule■■? and if i am unloading a wagon should the mode be at. is it poa…
unloading is other work.
when doing multi drop it is easy to not do only 4.5 hours driving in this case you combine the other work & driving to get the 6 hour rule, you need a 30mins break then.
15 minutes.
Have I misread something? I thought you had to take 30 mins break after 6hrs according to the WTD…
The new regulations require:
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required.
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
I ‘thought’ the same as you. But,
Those mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
.
Minimum break is 15mins.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, breaks totalling at least 30 minutes in total are required
So you could have 15mins when your 6hrs is up, and have another 15mins when you’ve done another 2hrs work (for example, as totall work time will now be 8hrs)
But
Where working hours total more than 9 hours a day, breaks totalling a minimum of 45 minutes must be taken overall.
So when do you need to take your 3rd 15 minute break?
As soon as you are going to go over 9 hrs?
So when you do you need your 2nd break then?
The 6 hr rule is as follows
When 6 hrs work time has elapsed a 30 minute break must be taken, the 6 hrs is ONLY made up of Other Work or Driving or a combination of both. If however during the 6 hrs period you have already taken a minimum of 15 minutes rest, then a further 15 minutes is all that is required.
If however, during the 6 hrs period a total of 4.5 hrs driving is completed then the 45minute break must be taken as per drivers hrs regs, the 30 minutes may be used towards the 45 minute break.
Personally I dont use POA for the simple fact its a waste of time, both Breaks and POA are exempt from the WTD 48hr limit, so take the following scenario as an example
Drive 4hrs
Other Work 2 hrs
Break 1 hr
POA 4 hrs
Drive 4hrs
End of Shift
9 hrs rest period
The above shows your maximum shift as 15 hrs
Then of Course you could do the same as I would do
Drive 4hrs
Other Work 2 hrs
Break 5 hrs (No more than 2 periods, each exceeding 1hr but totalling 4hrs minimum)
Drive 4hrs
(Possibility of working 1 more hour if need be)
End of Shift
8 hrs rest period
The above shows the Possibility of 16 hr shift if needed (Legally)
POA cannot be classed as break, at the end of the day if your told its 1 hr before your going to be loaded / unloaded you could if you wanted spend your time as you wish in that 1 hr,
I am only going off my employment in which I arrive at the depot and drop the trailer then get told an approximate time that my trailer will be ready for collection, obviously different drivers experience different situations but the above is how I would handle the situation as it affects me.
My head hurts now - I’m going to lie down
chhers robk
