I understand where and when you can be on POA,
but
how does it tie in with your hours?
Is it purely a WTD thing?
For instance, if you started at midday, and had exactly an hour POA midafternoon, could you then carry on until 7pm before a break? (obviously ensuring no more than 4.5 hrs driving in that time)
espresso:
I understand where and when you can be on POA,but
how does it tie in with your hours?
Is it purely a WTD thing?For instance, if you started at midday, and had exactly an hour POA midafternoon, could you then carry on until 7pm before a break? (obviously ensuring no more than 4.5 hrs driving in that time)
POA is not counted as working time so in your senario you would need a 15 min break at 7pm
Those that shall be obeyed(i.e vosa) say that, and i quote…A P.O.A DOES NOT COUNT AS WORK. So i would think you could take the total hours to 7. 
ROG:
espresso:
I understand where and when you can be on POA,but
how does it tie in with your hours?
Is it purely a WTD thing?For instance, if you started at midday, and had exactly an hour POA midafternoon, could you then carry on until 7pm before a break? (obviously ensuring no more than 4.5 hrs driving in that time)
POA is not counted as working time so in your senario you would need a 15 min break at 7pm
Why would said driver only need a 15 mins break at 7pm and not a 45mins break■■?
ROG:
espresso:
I understand where and when you can be on POA,but
how does it tie in with your hours?
Is it purely a WTD thing?For instance, if you started at midday, and had exactly an hour POA midafternoon, could you then carry on until 7pm before a break? (obviously ensuring no more than 4.5 hrs driving in that time)
POA is not counted as working time so in your senario you would need a 15 min break at 7pm
I understood you had to have a minimum 30 minute break under the WTD
The RTD rules are that no driver must work/drive more than 6 hours without taking a break - breaks must be at least 15 mins
You could take a break of 45 mins at 7pm but lets say from noon to 7pm you had done 2 hours of driving, 4 hours of other work and 1 hour of POA … only a 15 min break would be required and that RTD 15 min break would also act as the first of a split tacho driving break (15+30)
Forget poa and forget the wtd. Use break instead and crack on with the job.
I thought if you worked between 6&9 hours, you need a total of 30 minutes break, but it can be made up of smaller breaks each of at least 15 minutes?
scaniason:
I thought if you worked between 6&9 hours, you need a total of 30 minutes break, but it can be made up of smaller breaks each of at least 15 minutes?
yes but 15min to be taken at or before the 6th hr is reached then the other 15 before the 9th hr
scaniason:
I thought if you worked between 6&9 hours, you need a total of 30 minutes break, but it can be made up of smaller breaks each of at least 15 minutes?
Correct
I will say this in a different way to the official publications…
DURING THE SHIFT -
No driver shall go over a 6 hour combination of working & driving without taking a break
Breaks must be at least 15 mins
FOR THE TOTAL SHIFT - here we have a choice so choose only one
If the total of the working & driving in a shift is between 6 & 9 hours then breaks adding up to 30 mins are needed (2x15 is ok)
OR
If the total of the working & driving in a shift is more than 9 hours then breaks adding up to 45 mins are needed (3x15 is ok)
If choosing the second then there is no requirement to take the second 15 mins before the 9 hour working time is reached
on my last part of the cpc this week our trainer actually said that a POA can actually amount to a break as you are availble for work but are not doing anything. thats why if you have it on POA for over 40 mins it reverts you’re driving time back to zero hours on the digi tachograph.
SteveBarnsleytrucker:
on my last part of the cpc this week our trainer actually said that a POA can actually amount to a break as you are availble for work but are not doing anything. thats why if you have it on POA for over 40 mins it reverts you’re driving time back to zero hours on the digi tachograph.
no the tacho cannot tell the difference but in the use of multi maning the tacho in slot 2 will only record poa not break or rest so the authorites accept ONLY in slot 2 that its recording break for the 1st 45 min …
Breaks
- Member States shall take the measures necessary to ensure that, without prejudice to the level of protection provided by Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 or, failing that, by the AETR Agreement, persons performing mobile road transport activities, without prejudice to Article 2(1), in no circumstances work for more than six consecutive hours without a break. Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least 30 minutes, if working hours total between six and nine hours, and of at least 45 minutes, if working hours total more than nine hours.
You could be on duty for 15 hrs and only require a 15min break 
SteveBarnsleytrucker:
on my last part of the cpc this week our trainer actually said that a POA can actually amount to a break as you are availble for work but are not doing anything. thats why if you have it on POA for over 40 mins it reverts you’re driving time back to zero hours on the digi tachograph.
and its 45 min not 40
nick2008:
Breaks
- Member States shall take the measures necessary to ensure that, without prejudice to the level of protection provided by Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 or, failing that, by the AETR Agreement, persons performing mobile road transport activities, without prejudice to Article 2(1), in no circumstances work for more than six consecutive hours without a break. Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least 30 minutes, if working hours total between six and nine hours, and of at least 45 minutes, if working hours total more than nine hours.
You could be on duty for 15 hrs and only require a 15min break
You could do driving (4 hours) & other work (2 hours) plus 9 hours of POA in a 15 hour shift and require no breaks !! - OK, thats a bit daft but is a legal example
Saaamon:
Forget poa and forget the wtd. Use break instead and crack on with the job.
See your point mate, unfortunately, our firm has stopped paying us the hours on our time sheets, but now pays us the hours used from a combo of tracker download and digicard download.
Any time on ‘break’ over and above the minimum breaks are deducted from our paid hours, hence my interest in using the POA correctly.
espresso:
Any time on ‘break’ over and above the minimum breaks are deducted from our paid hours, hence my interest in using the POA correctly.
That could make thing iffy for you in certain circumstances where you are not told how long the wait will be so you will then have to use other work in order to be paid !!
If your company is hot on the RTD then using other work will mess up your possible overall paid hours
ROG:
nick2008:
Breaks
- Member States shall take the measures necessary to ensure that, without prejudice to the level of protection provided by Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 or, failing that, by the AETR Agreement, persons performing mobile road transport activities, without prejudice to Article 2(1), in no circumstances work for more than six consecutive hours without a break. Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least 30 minutes, if working hours total between six and nine hours, and of at least 45 minutes, if working hours total more than nine hours.
You could be on duty for 15 hrs and only require a 15min break
You could do driving (4 hours) & other work (2 hours) plus 9 hours of POA in a 15 hour shift and require no breaks !! - OK, thats a bit daft but is a legal example
no Rog 4+2=6 … 15min break min required and because you did 6hrs you’ll need a further 15 before you end your duty.because you work between 6 and ?
you would be ok if you did 4 + 1hr 40 + 15 break = 5hrs 55 min then the rest on poa
espresso:
Saaamon:
Forget poa and forget the wtd. Use break instead and crack on with the job.See your point mate, unfortunately, our firm has stopped paying us the hours on our time sheets, but now pays us the hours used from a combo of tracker download and digicard download.
Any time on ‘break’ over and above the minimum breaks are deducted from our paid hours, hence my interest in using the POA correctly.
its a ■■■■■■■ joke how they can pay you off you’re tacho. End of the day you have clocked on and are working so i dont see how any company can do this. what happens if you are waiting for you’re next job but dont get it for over 3 hours where in this time you have had it on break so you can then split you’re daily rest? does that mean you are not getting paid■■? that means if they dont like a driver for some reason they can keep them parked up stopping them from earning a living wage. 
SteveBarnsleytrucker:
espresso:
Saaamon:
Forget poa and forget the wtd. Use break instead and crack on with the job.See your point mate, unfortunately, our firm has stopped paying us the hours on our time sheets, but now pays us the hours used from a combo of tracker download and digicard download.
Any time on ‘break’ over and above the minimum breaks are deducted from our paid hours, hence my interest in using the POA correctly.
its a [zb] joke how they can pay you off you’re tacho. End of the day you have clocked on and are working so i dont see how any company can do this. what happens if you are waiting for you’re next job but dont get it for over 3 hours where in this time you have had it on break so you can then split you’re daily rest? does that mean you are not getting paid■■? that means if they dont like a driver for some reason they can keep them parked up stopping them from earning a living wage.
They started doing it 2 weeks ago, without telling us, there are some very unhappy drivers!