PAUL GEE's PHOTO COLLECTION (Part 1)

ray_smyth · 3 May 2019 17:07

windrush:

Ray Smyth:
(snip) Following morning, I got in an almost new
Foden, and had a look at the gear stick, 4 plus reverse on the knob, and a lever below the knob with 3 positions. 12 speed splitter box I thought.
I set off to Trafford Park and played many a tune on the gearbox, nothing seemed right. As I pulled into Kelloggs yard, I spotted an similar Foden
artic tanker of Tate & Lyle, so I spoke to the driver, an elderly chap from Liverpool, and told him of my gearbox problems. He asked “Is you gear
stick and switch like this one in my cab”, I said “Yes, its exactly the same”. He said, “We call it an 8 speed range box with an overdrive 9th gear”
The Foden drove like a good`un on the way back to Wigan. Kind Regards, Ray.

It was also a splitter Ray, all 12 gears were in there and you could split every gear in direct and overdrive ranges exactly the same as the early ‘proper’ 12 speed 'box. Foden marketed it as a 9 speed range change (in their words) “to make it easier for drivers to operate it” but every gear was still in there. I was talking to an ex driver only last week at a show (our vintage club secretary actually) and he mentioned about the Foden '9 speed gearbox as he drove a Haulmaster for Severn Trent with one fitted. The company asked for a Foden works driver to come out to instruct him but what the company didn’t know was that he had previously thumbed a lift from a Derbyshire Stone driver and watched him using it as a splitter so drove his the same. When the Foden chap came out and rode with him he was amazed that he drove it as a splitter box, even he hadn’t realised that it could be driven like that!

Pete.

Thanks Pete, I am still learning at the age of 75… Regards, Ray.

buzzer · 3 May 2019 19:22

Dean think you will find that Maggie of McGregor Cory was one of several based in Southampton in Andersons Road, almost certain they had tipping frames with 20ft twist locks IIRC so they could be used on 20ft containers as well, there were several of that type at the time, cheers Buzzer.

PS. while you are on Leyland’s here is a blat from the past from Southampton J.Pearce transport.

240_gardner · 3 May 2019 20:07

Ray Smyth:
Hi Chris, Just read this post regarding splitter box and range change box, and it brought back a few memories. Like many, but not all drivers, I had quite a few driving jobs when I was in my 20s. In 1973, I did just short of a year with Reed Transport at Wigan. For the first 6 months, I was a spare driver. During the summer, I was on nights for about 6 weeks, on night trunk changeover, Wigan to Newport Pagnell on the M1. Leave Wigan at 8pm, park up on Newport Pagnell southbound, walk over the bridge and meet the night man from Reeds at Maidstone and swap keys, have 45 minutes rest and drive back to Wigan.

Usually, if the southbound lorry was a H reg Scania 110 with a 5 speed splitter box, the northbound lorry was a new L reg Scania 110 with a 10 speed range box, so you needed to be on the ball and remember which lorry you were in at all times. The 5 speed box gear stick had a round knob and the splitter switch, and the 10 speed range box had a square knob on the gear stick with a gap through it, and the range switch. I would drive with my left hand on the gear knob for most of the journeys, so at least I knew which lorry I was driving.

Not long after I started at Reeds, Les the Foreman called me in to the office and asked," Ray, Have you ever driven a Foden ?" I said “Yes Les, I have driven a few”, I hadn’t drove a Foden, I was lying. Les told me that my work for tomorrow was a double deck load of Corrugated for Kelloggs at Trafford Park which was arriving overnight from Reeds at Thatcham.

Following morning, I got in an almost new Foden, and had a look at the gear stick, 4 plus reverse on the knob, and a lever below the knob with 3 positions. 12 speed splitter box I thought. I set off to Trafford Park and played many a tune on the gearbox, nothing seemed right. As I pulled into Kelloggs yard, I spotted an similar Foden
artic tanker of Tate & Lyle, so I spoke to the driver, an elderly chap from Liverpool, and told him of my gearbox problems. He asked “Is you gear stick and switch like this one in my cab”, I said “Yes, its exactly the same”. He said, “We call it an 8 speed range box with an overdrive 9th gear” The Foden drove like a good`un on the way back to Wigan. Kind Regards, Ray.

Hello Ray

Interesting to read that, thank you!

You’re one up on me here: in all these years, I’ve never so much as set foot in a Foden, but I always got the impression that the transmission was good if you reallly knew how to use it. Hope I might get a crack in one, one day.

In a similar vein to your mention of Scanias, I well remember the time of getting a handful of temporary drivers in for holiday cover in the mid-80s, to drive F7s on general haulage.

Unfortunately, these were the relatively uncommon 38 tonne version, with the 16-speed gearbox, where the range-change switch was on the front of the gearlever, and the splitter (or “overdrive” according to Volvo) was on the side, and at about the same height. Of course, the trick was for a driver to change down the range instead of the split, and go down half a gearbox instead of half a gear, with predictable results.

So it was with the casual holiday relief men: 3 Mondays in succession, 3 blown clutches

bewick · 3 May 2019 20:16

240 Gardner:

Ray Smyth:
Hi Chris, Just read this post regarding splitter box and range change box, and it brought back a few memories. Like many, but not all drivers, I had quite a few driving jobs when I was in my 20s. In 1973, I did just short of a year with Reed Transport at Wigan. For the first 6 months, I was a spare driver. During the summer, I was on nights for about 6 weeks, on night trunk changeover, Wigan to Newport Pagnell on the M1. Leave Wigan at 8pm, park up on Newport Pagnell southbound, walk over the bridge and meet the night man from Reeds at Maidstone and swap keys, have 45 minutes rest and drive back to Wigan.

Usually, if the southbound lorry was a H reg Scania 110 with a 5 speed splitter box, the northbound lorry was a new L reg Scania 110 with a 10 speed range box, so you needed to be on the ball and remember which lorry you were in at all times. The 5 speed box gear stick had a round knob and the splitter switch, and the 10 speed range box had a square knob on the gear stick with a gap through it, and the range switch. I would drive with my left hand on the gear knob for most of the journeys, so at least I knew which lorry I was driving.

Not long after I started at Reeds, Les the Foreman called me in to the office and asked," Ray, Have you ever driven a Foden ?" I said “Yes Les, I have driven a few”, I hadn’t drove a Foden, I was lying. Les told me that my work for tomorrow was a double deck load of Corrugated for Kelloggs at Trafford Park which was arriving overnight from Reeds at Thatcham.

Following morning, I got in an almost new Foden, and had a look at the gear stick, 4 plus reverse on the knob, and a lever below the knob with 3 positions. 12 speed splitter box I thought. I set off to Trafford Park and played many a tune on the gearbox, nothing seemed right. As I pulled into Kelloggs yard, I spotted an similar Foden
artic tanker of Tate & Lyle, so I spoke to the driver, an elderly chap from Liverpool, and told him of my gearbox problems. He asked “Is you gear stick and switch like this one in my cab”, I said “Yes, its exactly the same”. He said, “We call it an 8 speed range box with an overdrive 9th gear” The Foden drove like a good`un on the way back to Wigan. Kind Regards, Ray.

Hello Ray

Interesting to read that, thank you!

You’re one up on me here: in all these years, I’ve never so much as set foot in a Foden, but I always got the impression that the transmission was good if you reallly knew how to use it. Hope I might get a crack in one, one day.

In a similar vein to your mention of Scanias, I well remember the time of getting a handful of temporary drivers in for holiday cover in the mid-80s, to drive F7s on general haulage.

Unfortunately, these were the relatively uncommon 38 tonne version, with the 16-speed gearbox, where the range-change switch was on the front of the gearlever, and the splitter (or “overdrive” according to Volvo) was on the side, and at about the same height. Of course, the trick was for a driver to change down the range instead of the split, and go down half a gearbox instead of half a gear, with predictable results.

So it was with the casual holiday relief men: 3 Mondays in succession, 3 blown clutches

Never ever employed Agency drivers although we did employ the odd local relief drivers who were well known to us and who possessed the required standards demanded by our operation. Cheers Dennis.

scania81 · 3 May 2019 20:49

DEANB:
I reckon there are a few Leyland fans on here. Did a bit about the Roadtrain on page 200.

Heres some more about them.

9

8

7

6

5

4

3

2

1

0

Evening Dean and paul
Smallcoal will put me right but the Blueline Roadtrain is driven by Budgie.
Dai

240_gardner · 3 May 2019 21:04

Bewick:
[
Never ever employed Agency drivers although we did employ the odd local relief drivers who were well known to us and who possessed the required standards demanded by our operation. Cheers Dennis.

These weren’t agency men either, but it was the days before I seized control of driver recruitment and implemented testing before hiring and training after, a useful thing I learned at Pandoro

arcdaz · 4 May 2019 13:02

DEANB:

windrush:
“What’s the make chaps?” It’s a Commer.

Pete.

Cheers Pete !

marktaff:
Hi Dean,
The ERF Fire engine you posted here was a Swansea Fire engine…it was based at the old Swansea Fire station in Alexandra Road in the town centre…this engine also had a sister JTH 776P …Regular sight on the roads of Swansea in the mid to late 70s.

Regards Mark

How the hell did you know that Mark !

Punchy Dan:
I’d think the west brick B series would belong to frank Tucker as it looks likes the weight plate on the door by the mirror arm which is something he’s known for .

Yeah possibly Dan as Frank Tucker was also a ERF agent.

ArcDaz:

DEANB:
Anyone driven a fire engine ■■?
Dean yes i have drove quite a few fire engines over years as i did own ten of them at one point al were ex London fire brigade which i took fire shows and did various open days at fire stations and school fates etc etc

You kept that quiet Daz.

Heres a few more articles that may intrest you chap !

arcdaz · 4 May 2019 13:03

DEANB:

windrush:
“What’s the make chaps?” It’s a Commer.

Pete.

Cheers Pete !

marktaff:
Hi Dean,
The ERF Fire engine you posted here was a Swansea Fire engine…it was based at the old Swansea Fire station in Alexandra Road in the town centre…this engine also had a sister JTH 776P …Regular sight on the roads of Swansea in the mid to late 70s.

Regards Mark

How the hell did you know that Mark !

Punchy Dan:
I’d think the west brick B series would belong to frank Tucker as it looks likes the weight plate on the door by the mirror arm which is something he’s known for .

Yeah possibly Dan as Frank Tucker was also a ERF agent.

ArcDaz:

DEANB:
Anyone driven a fire engine ■■?
Dean yes i have drove quite a few fire engines over years as i did own ten of them at one point al were ex London fire brigade which i took fire shows and did various open days at fire stations and school fates etc etc

You kept that quiet Daz.

Heres a few more articles that may intrest you chap !

[/quote]

arcdaz · 4 May 2019 13:13

DEANB:

windrush:
“What’s the make chaps?” It’s a Commer.

Pete.

Cheers Pete !

marktaff:
Hi Dean,
The ERF Fire engine you posted here was a Swansea Fire engine…it was based at the old Swansea Fire station in Alexandra Road in the town centre…this engine also had a sister JTH 776P …Regular sight on the roads of Swansea in the mid to late 70s.

Regards Mark

How the hell did you know that Mark !

Punchy Dan:
I’d think the west brick B series would belong to frank Tucker as it looks likes the weight plate on the door by the mirror arm which is something he’s known for .

Yeah possibly Dan as Frank Tucker was also a ERF agent.

ArcDaz:

DEANB:
Anyone driven a fire engine ■■?
Dean yes i have drove quite a few fire engines over years as i did own ten of them at one point al were ex London fire brigade which i took fire shows and did various open days at fire stations and school fates etc etc

You kept that quiet Daz.

Heres a few more articles that may intrest you chap !

revman · 4 May 2019 16:37

pete smith:
I think Bass had some day cabbed F10’s as well Dean, I know one of the fuel companies ran some as well, blue with yellow on the cabs, can’t for the life of e remember the company! C.P.L Petroleum? Cheer’s Pete

re the debate on F10/12 day cabs it’s quite simple I had one on Demo from Hallam commercials for three months,the first one they sent was a normal sleeper cab but when coupled to our forty foot trailers it was found to be overlength and the fleet engineer sent it back and they sent a Day cab to comply with current legislation, British Steel Rotherham ran three F12/400 day cab ballast tractors,plenty pics but this site won’t allow me to post em from my iPad (file to large) regards Alan

carryfast · 4 May 2019 18:17

revman:

pete smith:
I think Bass had some day cabbed F10’s as well Dean, I know one of the fuel companies ran some as well, blue with yellow on the cabs, can’t for the life of e remember the company! C.P.L Petroleum? Cheer’s Pete

re the debate on F10/12 day cabs it’s quite simple I had one on Demo from Hallam commercials for three months,the first one they sent was a normal sleeper cab but when coupled to our forty foot trailers it was found to be overlength and the fleet engineer sent it back and they sent a Day cab to comply with current legislation, British Steel Rotherham ran three F12/400 day cab ballast tractors,plenty pics but this site won’t allow me to post em from my iPad (file to large) regards Alan

Which seems to fit the theory ( government was out to sabotage Brit truck manufacturing ) in terms of economy of scale in the form of standard sleeper cabs only.Rather than unions wouldn’t allow them.When even if not used as a sleeper it provides more room to put stuff.In addition to provision for a break/rest if out of hours and crash protection in the form of more crumple zone between driver and trailer.On that note I worked in a union environment and that was our view on sleepers v day cabs.

curnock · 4 May 2019 20:32

Chris Webb:

eurotrans:
The Green and white fridge looks like one of mantons from Yorkshire

Yes,I think you are right eurotrans. I remember Manton Transport from Wetherby area well,they subbed for Wincanton at Maltby on the Malton Bacon contract.Then they sort of just disappeared.This is not my photo…

i worked for noble foods ,we used to deliver raw egg into mantons harrogate,next to raf menwith hill.noble eventually purchased mantons.last i heard they were closing the harrogate depot

deanb · 5 May 2019 06:20

240 Gardner:

DEANB:
I will pop it on and then you can put all the correct names to the various models Chris.

DEANB:
By the way Paul Gee sent me a message the other day asking me to thank you about explaining the different models in that post the other day !

He’s most welcome. Thank you to Paul and yourself (and Mark too!) for the countless hours taken to photograph, scan and post so that we can all enjoy and reminisce. And delve into our anorak pockets

Top chaps, all of you.

Thats a nice Anorak chap !

Chris Webb:
Hi Dean.It’s a Leyland Comet with an Isle of Man reg,photo taken on Ramsey harbour.

Thanks Chris for the name.

tastrucker:
“240 Gardner”

I believe it was new to Jamesons, with the rare factory spec, not only of a sleeper (yes the dustcart pressings were similar!) but also an 8LXB Gardner. Ask Dennis about the merits of blending an expensive engine with a cheap lorry

Hello DEAN ,that Caddys NAW 500G was recabbed with them after it crashed i think somewhere in Spain ,it finished its days on shunt work at Cadburys Chirk
Other early F88s in this area was one with B&C haulage over at Rednall a few miles from Oswestry it too was on a G plate they were steel hauliers ,and Dee Valley at Llangollen had a daycab version .
Thank you for those who have supplied the pictures of the Seddon with its original owner ,DEAN ,i have forgot to mention that Caddys also had a F86 but did not last very long ! thank you Trevor

Thanks for the comments Trevor. Dont think i have ever seen a pic of the F86 in Caddies colours !

Going back to the Jameson Seddon and the mention of them building dustcarts,heres a small bit about them.

Click on page twice.

deanb · 5 May 2019 06:46

JAKEY:
Thank you Deanb/Paul ,yes love the T45 Roadtrain , not the best wagon in the world but was a good wagon to have on BRS . I got loads of photos of the ones we had .

Glad you liked the bit on the Roadtrain chap.

ramone:

JAKEY:
Thank you Deanb/Paul ,yes love the T45 Roadtrain , not the best wagon in the world but was a good wagon to have on BRS . I got loads of photos of the ones we had .

The quote from Donald Malcolm was quite ironic , if Leyland dont get it right this time they may as well close the doors its their last chance.

When you look back at the 60s and 70s its amazing that all of our truck manufacturer have gone apart from Dennis and Shelvoke and Drewery.Cant think
of any others left.

Thanks for all the comments on gear boxes chaps.

eurotrans:
I’ll hazard a guess that the white Mercedes pulling the fridge is A D Forsey from the Bristol area

Forsey’s, totally forgotten about that company “eurotrans”

Click on page.

forsey 1966 ppg.PNG

whiplash:
Dean,
McGregor Cory was part of,or very closely aligned to Transflash McGregor(Bradford area H.O. if I recall).The name on the door, Ocean,was part of the Ocean group.
Strange that a freight forwarder had a tipper,but there ya go.
The whole lot was merged eventually into MSAS,which,once again if I recall, stood for "McGregor Sea and Air Services.
Cassin Road Transport in Ireland was also bought out.
As happened with most freight forwarders,the world getting smaller etc.,P & O Nedloyd,Excel Logistics, and eventually DHL were merged.
Think that`s very roughly the story there!

Thanks for the background on that company “wiplash”, good stuff chap.

Buzzer:
Dean think you will find that Maggie of McGregor Cory was one of several based in Southampton in Andersons Road, almost certain they had tipping frames with 20ft twist locks IIRC so they could be used on 20ft containers as well, there were several of that type at the time, cheers Buzzer.

PS. while you are on Leyland’s here is a blat from the past from Southampton J.Pearce transport.

That would make sense “Buzzer” being that the pic was taken in Parkstone. Unusual load for a tipper as not the right body for scrap haulage.
Thanks for the pic.

scania81:

DEANB:
I reckon there are a few Leyland fans on here. Did a bit about the Roadtrain on page 200.

Evening Dean and paul
Smallcoal will put me right but the Blueline Roadtrain is driven by Budgie.
Dai

Cheers Dai.

Thanks for the fire engine pics Daz,good stuff.

Carryfast:
“revman”
re the debate on F10/12 day cabs it’s quite simple I had one on Demo from Hallam commercials for three months,the first one they sent was a normal sleeper cab but when coupled to our forty foot trailers it was found to be overlength and the fleet engineer sent it back and they sent a Day cab to comply with current legislation, British Steel Rotherham ran three F12/400 day cab ballast tractors,plenty pics but this site won’t allow me to post em from my iPad (file to large) regards Alan

Which seems to fit the theory ( government was out to sabotage Brit truck manufacturing ) in terms of economy of scale in the form of standard sleeper cabs only.Rather than unions wouldn’t allow them.When even if not used as a sleeper it provides more room to put stuff.In addition to provision for a break/rest if out of hours and crash protection in the form of more crumple zone between driver and trailer.On that note I worked in a union environment and that was our view on sleepers v day cabs.

Thanks for your comments Alan and “Carryfast”.

curnock:

Chris Webb:

eurotrans:
The Green and white fridge looks like one of mantons from Yorkshire

Yes,I think you are right eurotrans. I remember Manton Transport from Wetherby area well,they subbed for Wincanton at Maltby on the Malton Bacon contract.Then they sort of just disappeared.This is not my photo…

i worked for noble foods ,we used to deliver raw egg into mantons harrogate,next to raf menwith hill.noble eventually purchased mantons.last i heard they were closing the harrogate depot

Shame they are gone “curnock” as they had smart looking livery.