I never use POA. I’m either at work or on break and if I’m on break then I am on break, no working and certainly not answering the phone which gets switched off. i never exceed the working regulation hours.
acceptme:
never use it… im either working or im not its that simple.
^^^ Me Neither, I agree with you, if you’re in work then you are working! - I get the impression it is a fudge, a stepping stone put into the WTD
Wheel Nut:
wildfire:
The reference period for calculating the 48-hour week is normally 17 weeks, but it can be extended
to 26 weeks if this is permitted under a collective or workforce agreement. There is no ‘opt-out’ for
individuals wishing to work longer than an average 48-hour week, but breaks and ‘periods of availability’
do not count as working time.Generally speaking, a period of availability (POA) is waiting time, the duration of which is known about
in advance. Examples of what might count as a POA are accompanying a vehicle on a ferry crossing
or waiting while other workers load/unload your vehicle. For mobile workers driving in a team, a POA
would also include time spent sitting next to the driver while the vehicle is in motion (unless the mobile
worker is taking a break or performing other work i.e. navigation).now that’s the wording direct from the vosa book, now if they have it wrong I don’t think they would print it, do you!?
What VOSA Book are you speaking about?
GV262-03 you can even download it for free and keep it on your computer 
P O A as far as I know was thought up by the U K government along with the business leaders and unions.
I believe the unions were pressured into submission.?
The U K transport department and business leaders reckon HGV drivers can work up to 71 hour’s in 5 days,with no compensation required.
P O A ,along with rest break default digital tachometer is used to bypass or loop hole the working time restrictions expected by the regulations.
Its at the least fudging it.
wildfire:
Wheel Nut:
wildfire:
The reference period for calculating the 48-hour week is normally 17 weeks, but it can be extended
to 26 weeks if this is permitted under a collective or workforce agreement. There is no ‘opt-out’ for
individuals wishing to work longer than an average 48-hour week, but breaks and ‘periods of availability’
do not count as working time.Generally speaking, a period of availability (POA) is waiting time, the duration of which is known about
in advance. Examples of what might count as a POA are accompanying a vehicle on a ferry crossing
or waiting while other workers load/unload your vehicle. For mobile workers driving in a team, a POA. Waiting whilst others unload the truck is fine.
so long as you are not required to remain at the workstation.
In most cases not waiting with the vehicle is impractical as normally the driver is required to be on standby,or will/ must at some point monitor loading to maintain correct loading ect.And yes VOSA can get it wrong.
ultimately VOSA only gives guidance and it is for the individual to interpret correctly the guidance.
would also include time spent sitting next to the driver while the vehicle is in motion (unless the mobile
worker is taking a break or performing other work i.e. navigation).now that’s the wording direct from the vosa book, now if they have it wrong I don’t think they would print it, do you!? :shock: :shock:
What VOSA Book are you speaking about?
GV262-03 you can even download it for free and keep it on your computer 8) 8) 8)
Correct! as fudging it THEY DIDNT WANT US TO EARN £20 plus an hour! 
4 X 12 hour shifts Monday to Thursday, fri, sat and Sunday off! 
48 X £20 = £960 which would of been an acceptable MINIMUM wage so they moved THE GOALPOSTS AND PUT THE CON AKA POA INTO THE EQUATION! It would of cost them a fortune, so they DONALD ducked it up for the suckers to work 71/ 84 hrs a week ILLEGALLY! 
the dft, rha, fta and the unions should hang their heads in shame as THEY’RE COMPLICIT IN BREAKING ALL THE LAWS TO SUIT THEM! When will DRIVERS ever say NO, enough is enough?
Ross v stobart:
P O A as far as I know was thought up by the U K government along with the business leaders and unions.
I believe the unions were pressured into submission.?
The U K transport department and business leaders reckon HGV drivers can work up to 71 hour’s in 5 days,with no compensation required.
P O A ,along with rest break default digital tachometer is used to bypass or loop hole the working time restrictions expected by the regulations.
Its at the least fudging it.
sorry poa is in the e.u. directive when it was enacted, so not thought up by the british government or unions, but by the European law makers and agreed by all the e.u. member states before ratification, so where you get this idea its a conspiracy by the british government to make only u.k drivers drive longer I do not know
mobile workers in the public sector dont use P O A.
workers in the public sector fall within the working time 1988 regs
Drivers in the public sector normally dont work more than 10 hours.
In the private transport sectors mobile workers fall within the separate RTR 2005’
The E U directive was implemented within the R T R regs.
The principal regulation is the R T R.
I might be wrong but when the E U was debating working time regulation,it was the U K that fought to have P O A exclusion./clause
Ross v stobart:
mobile workers in the public sector dont use P O A.
workers in the public sector fall within the working time 1988 regs
Drivers in the public sector normally dont work more than 10 hours.In the private transport sectors mobile workers fall within the separate RTR 2005’
The E U directive was implemented within the R T R regs.
The principal regulation is the R T R.I might be wrong but when the E U was debating working time regulation,it was the U K that fought to have P O A exclusion./clause
DIRECTIVE 2002/15/EU is the original directive which the u.k adopted in 2005 hence RTR 2005 and the exemptions for each member states can be different, but that’s the way the e.u works,
without going back over the minutes for the debate into the original directive I can’t say who pushed for the poa, and to be honest I have better things to do with my time, because they can be very tedious to go through and would take hours, but all the basic exemption are there in law for each member state to implement as they see fit. In regards to the public sector workers, they would fall outside the directive as these were designed for workers working under e.u. drivers regulations, which must public service workers didn’t come under in the first place 
■■■■■■■■. The regulations about POA are written in every language of the European Union
periods of availability shall mean:
periods other than those relating to break times and
rest times during which the mobile worker is not
required to remain at his workstation, but must be
available to answer any calls to start or resume driving
or to carry out other work. In particular such periods of
availability shall include periods during which the
mobile worker is accompanying a vehicle being transported
by ferryboat or by train as well as periods of
waiting at frontiers and those due to traffic prohibitions.These periods and their foreseeable duration shall be
known in advance by the mobile worker, that is to say
either before departure or just before the actual start of
the period in question, or under the general conditions
negotiated between the social partners and/or under the
terms of the legislation of the Member States,
for mobile workers driving in a team, the time spent
sitting next to the driver or on the couchette while the
vehicle is in motion;
Bereitschaftszeit“
andere Zeiten als Ruhepausen und Ruhezeiten, in denen
das Fahrpersonal nicht verpflichtet ist, an seinem
Arbeitsplatz zu bleiben, in denen es sich jedoch in
Bereitschaft halten muss, um etwaigen Anweisungen zur
Aufnahme oder Wiederaufnahme der Fahrtätigkeit oder
zur Ausführung anderer Arbeiten Folge zu leisten. Als
Bereitschaftszeit gelten insbesondere die Zeiten, in denen
das Fahrpersonal ein Fahrzeug während der Beförderung
auf einer Fähre oder mit einem Zug begleitet sowie
Wartezeiten an den Grenzen und infolge von Fahrverboten.Diese Zeiten und ihre voraussichtliche Dauer müssen
dem Fahrpersonal im Voraus bekannt sein, d. h.
entweder vor der Abfahrt bzw. unmittelbar vor dem
tatsächlichen Beginn des betreffenden Zeitraums oder
gemäß den allgemeinen zwischen den Sozialpartnern
ausgehandelten und/oder durch die Rechtsvorschriften
der Mitgliedstaaten festgelegten Bedingungen;
für Fahrpersonal, das sich beim Fahren abwechselt, die
Zeit, die während der Fahrt neben dem Fahrer oder in
einer Schlafkabine verbracht wird;
«temps de disponibilité»:
les périodes autres que celles relatives aux temps de
pause et aux temps de repos durant lesquelles le travailleur
mobile n’est pas tenu de rester à son poste de
travail, mais doit être disponible pour répondre à des
appels éventuels lui demandant d’entreprendre ou de
reprendre la conduite ou de faire d’autres travaux. Sont
notamment considérés comme temps de disponibilité,
les périodes pendant lesquelles le travailleur mobile
accompagne un véhicule transporté par ferry-boat ou
par train ainsi que les périodes d’attente aux frontières et
celles dues à des interdictions de circulation.Ces périodes et leur durée prévisible doivent être
connues à l’avance par le travailleur mobile, c’est-à -dire
soit avant le départ ou juste avant le début effectif de la
période considérée, soit selon les conditions générales
négociées entre les partenaires sociaux et/ou définies par
la législation des États membres;
pour les travailleurs mobiles conduisant en équipe, le
temps passé pendant la marche du véhicule à côté du
conducteur ou sur une couchette;
Conor:
Rob K:
Only mugs use POA. And VOSA don’t give a [zb] about POA anyway so your argument is invalid. Like others have said, you’re either working (driving/other work mode) or you’re not (bed symbol).VOSA: Can you indicate on your tachograph where you did your walk round checks and when you loaded and unloaded?
You: Err…
VOSA: Better get out your wallet son…
If you are doing daily checks on POA you had better get your wallet out.
In IMHO when POA was born the rules regarding other work and rest did not change, therefore if you use bed and crossed hammers as you did before it should be ok
And which mode do foreigners use for POA then? Their square is for 45 min break and bed is for rest so that only leaves crossed hammers as driving is automatically shown by the steering wheel! I think some of you talk ■■■■■■■■! The uk crapped it bigstyle and brought a load of ■■■■■ out to stop us earning what we’re WORTH!
Fatboy slimslow:
And which mode do foreigners use for POA then? Their square is for 45 min break and bed is for rest so that only leaves crossed hammers as driving is automatically shown by the steering wheel! I think some of you talk ■■■■■■■■! The uk crapped it bigstyle and brought a load of [zb] out to stop us earning what we’re WORTH!
We all have to abide by EC561/2006, whether you are foreign or not 
lankyphil:
Use it all the time. Very rare I don’t get at least 2 hours POA per day.E.g., Waiting for a wagon in the morning, waiting to be let into Tesco stores, waiting for trailer to be loaded etc
+1
If B&Q man says 30mins wait and i put it on POA and he calls me in 2 hours later, do I have to do a printout and change it all to other work? or do I leave the 30mins as POA and change the other hour and a half to other work??
bubsy06:
If B&Q man says 30mins wait and i put it on POA and he calls me in 2 hours later, do I have to do a printout and change it all to other work? or do I leave the 30mins as POA and change the other hour and a half to other work??
Another one who didn’t listen to what he was told on his dcpc 
It depends what you consider a rest or period of rest whilst available.
In the B Q example if you ask me time spent waiting to be tipped in a BQ goods yard is other work.
Unless you can do a bit of shopping or go for a piza at the local hut.
But if you like spending rests in BQ car park and awaiting tip at any moment well thats for the individual to decide.
Ross v stobart:
It depends what you consider a rest or period of rest whilst available.
In the B Q example if you ask me time spent waiting to be tipped in a BQ goods yard is other work.
Unless you can do a bit of shopping or go for a piza at the local hut.But if you like spending rests in BQ car park and awaiting tip at any moment well thats for the individual to decide.
POA ISN’T ■■■■■■■ REST! there is no requirement to be able to go shopping, go eat, or have a ■■■■. That is what BREAK is for, Jeez 
The Sarge:
Ross v stobart:
It depends what you consider a rest or period of rest whilst available.
In the B Q example if you ask me time spent waiting to be tipped in a BQ goods yard is other work.
Unless you can do a bit of shopping or go for a piza at the local hut.But if you like spending rests in BQ car park and awaiting tip at any moment well thats for the individual to decide.
POA ISN’T [zb] REST! there is no requirement to be able to go shopping, go eat, or have a [zb]. That is what BREAK is for, Jeez
Calm down, calm down
dozy:
bubsy06:
If B&Q man says 30mins wait and i put it on POA and he calls me in 2 hours later, do I have to do a printout and change it all to other work? or do I leave the 30mins as POA and change the other hour and a half to other work??Another one who didn’t listen to what he was told on his dcpc
Yes i did, i remember them saying the course is finished 