I don’t see what your point is really Rob. If I don’t get any tour work then just I’ll carry on doing what I’m doing, although I have already done a couple of exhibition jobs and am expecting at least two more this year.
And your knowledge of owning or operating a truck is? 
Rob K:
Harry Monk:
Rob K:
Of course it is! Gregory’s tour circuit, right?No, that’s what I will be doing in between any tour work I pick up.
Ah right, I see. I guess Gregory’s will be seeing a lot of you then.
Not if they can help it 
newmercman:
Now, back on topic, as an Owner Driver you’re more tied to a company than an employed driver, in Wayne’s case if he does get the boot he can have another job in a few phone calls or go on an agency, an Owner Driver getting the boot would be in a far worse position. To take it further, if you get on the tour/show circuit, do you really think that you could just leave the tourThe old saying the show must go on is so true, personal circumstances do not come into it, the truck must arrive at the venue on time, it’s not open to debate, it’s a must do
Blimey nmm get real.The difference is that in a the case of subbing a load it’s just that.There’s only a contract,between the sub contractor/haulier and the ‘employer’/forwarder when that contractor/haulier agrees to take,or in this case even bothers to look for,‘that load’.In the case of an employee the contract is always there permanently during the contracted hours of work stated at the the time of the start of the employement.
The only time that situation could change in the case of an owner driver is if something unforeseen happens at home while on route.In which case I don’t think it’s unheard of for employed drivers or owner drivers to park the wagon up somewhere and get home by the fastest means possible which would probably be covered by the conditions of carriage between haulier and customer .In which case it’s reasonable to expect that some people could see the loss of the family pet as serious enough for that while maybe some others wouldn’t.
Although in this case it seems to be the former type of issue which would have applied and which Harry was obviously referring to.There’s no comparison between the freedom which being an owner driver allows in the real world compared to the way in which a bad guvnor can make life hell for an employed driver.Which is obviously the type of situation and comparison that Harry was referring to. 
Harry Monk:
I don’t see what your point is really Rob. If I don’t get any tour work then just I’ll carry on doing what I’m doing
OOs with sense have the work lined up BEFORE they go into business . Seems like you’ve done exactly the opposite of you’ve said on here for years and put a truck on the road subbying for another transport company doing all the dog-end jobs that they can’t get any other mug to do. But hey it generates a few pence more than the £2.50 a year interest that your ISA would, so it’s all good right!
I only popped into this forum because I heard Harry ■■■■■ was getting some grief and that’s always fun to watch but my god you’re all as bad as each other! Going by some of the posts on this topic I wouldn’t trust half you to run a tuck shop in a primary school let alone a truck…
Rob K:
Harry Monk:
I don’t see what your point is really Rob. If I don’t get any tour work then just I’ll carry on doing what I’m doingOOs with sense have the work lined up BEFORE they go into business
And your knowledge of owning or operating a truck is?
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Now, back on topic, as an Owner Driver you’re more tied to a company than an employed driver, in Wayne’s case if he does get the boot he can have another job in a few phone calls or go on an agency, an Owner Driver getting the boot would be in a far worse position. To take it further, if you get on the tour/show circuit, do you really think that you could just leave the tour
Blimey nmm get real.The difference is that in a the case of subbing a load it’s just that.There’s only a contract,between the sub contractor/haulier and the ‘employer’/forwarder when that contractor/haulier agrees to take,or in this case even bothers to look for,‘that load’.In the case of an employee the contract is always there permanently during the contracted hours of work stated at the the time of the start of the employement.
The only time that situation could change in the case of an owner driver is if something unforeseen happens at home while on route.In which case I don’t think it’s unheard of for employed drivers or owner drivers to park the wagon up somewhere and get home by the fastest means possible which would probably be covered by the conditions of carriage between haulier and customer
Although in this case it seems to be the former type of issue which would have applied and which Harry was obviously referring to.There’s no comparison between the freedom which being an owner driver allows in the real world compared to the way in which a bad guvnor can make life hell for an employed driver.Which is obviously the type of situation and comparison that Harry was referring to.
If you had ever run a truck you would soon find out you start telling customers you can’t do jobs at short notice on a regular basis the phone will stop ringing especaly as in most owner drivers case you will be working for one customer pretty much all the time.
That’s from experience not from dreaming about driving a ken worth round Europe.
kr79:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Now, back on topic, as an Owner Driver you’re more tied to a company than an employed driver, in Wayne’s case if he does get the boot he can have another job in a few phone calls or go on an agency, an Owner Driver getting the boot would be in a far worse position. To take it further, if you get on the tour/show circuit, do you really think that you could just leave the tour
Blimey nmm get real.The difference is that in a the case of subbing a load it’s just that.There’s only a contract,between the sub contractor/haulier and the ‘employer’/forwarder when that contractor/haulier agrees to take,or in this case even bothers to look for,‘that load’.In the case of an employee the contract is always there permanently during the contracted hours of work stated at the the time of the start of the employement.
The only time that situation could change in the case of an owner driver is if something unforeseen happens at home while on route.In which case I don’t think it’s unheard of for employed drivers or owner drivers to park the wagon up somewhere and get home by the fastest means possible which would probably be covered by the conditions of carriage between haulier and customer
Although in this case it seems to be the former type of issue which would have applied and which Harry was obviously referring to.There’s no comparison between the freedom which being an owner driver allows in the real world compared to the way in which a bad guvnor can make life hell for an employed driver.Which is obviously the type of situation and comparison that Harry was referring to.
If you had ever run a truck you would soon find out you start telling customers you can’t do jobs at short notice on a regular basis the phone will stop ringing especaly as in most owner drivers case you will be working for one customer pretty much all the time.
That’s from experience not from dreaming about driving a ken worth round Europe.
I don’t think anyone has a family/personal crisis on a ‘regular basis’ though.But no thanks I wouldn’t want to base an owner driver operation on working for/being dependent on,one customer most of the time.As I said it ( should be ) all about being paid by the load/trip/mile,with no shortage of loads and it being my choice wether I haul it or not and if you’re reliant/dependent on the phone ringing,especially from one customer,for a load,in just the same way that an employed agency driver is,then I’d say that would just confirm my view not to start up in the first place.
It’s ok everyone Carryfast has brought his vast experience of being an owner driver to the table, all questions will be answered definitively here on in. As you were
Jeez,just like Led Zep,‘Ramble on’!
Yeah I know this makes no sense,just like the rest!
Rob K:
Harry Monk:
I don’t see what your point is really Rob. If I don’t get any tour work then just I’ll carry on doing what I’m doingOOs with sense have the work lined up BEFORE they go into business
You should print your posts out from here and stick them in an album. Then when you’re old and the grandkids come round their little faces will light up when you show them the album. They’ll say ‘wow grandad you actually had your own login on a truck drivers internet forum. We could look all day at the interesting pictures of the posts you made convincing yourself you weren’t too gutless to setup on your own and that by not doing so you were the one making the logical and smart commercial decision. The way you couldn’t satisfy yourself with just a few posts but were filled with such self doubt you continued into the thousands was truly stoical.’
The way they’ll then look at you with new found respect will make your chest swell with pride.
Carryfast:
Blimey nmm get real.:
What real as in having real life experience of being an owner operator and then a small fleet owner, is that kind the kind of real you mean
In case you’ve not been receiving the news of the life and times of Harry Monk up on planet Carryfast, let me bring you up to speed…
Harry Monk owns a tractor unit, when he’s not arguing with me he uses the tractor unit primarily to pull trailers for old established transport company Gregorys, he has on the odd occaision pulled a trailer with his tractor unit for Luckings, who are involved in moving stage equipment and all that kind of thing, they’re another old established haulier wih, like Gregorys, a decent reputation, are you with me so far
Right, so, we know Harry (I’ll use his first name as we’re old aquaintances 
) is almost dedicated to Gregorys, so each Friday when Gregorys are planning the work for the following week, they will include Harry and his tractor unit in their plans, this will continue throughout the working week, Harry subcontracts to Gregorys, so they plan work for him all week. Are you still with me
Pause to let it sink in…
Now, Harry’s ruler drop around the radio stations and theatres of the home counties bears fruit, an harrassed stage manager calls as he needs to get a load of frilly frocks and Slimfast to a new venue for that night’s performance of Swan Lake, convieniently Harry is in the area, can he drop the Gregory trailer and zoom off on a theatrical mercy dash Well yes he can, it is his tractor unit after all, but will it have implications to his relationship with Gregorys Again the answer is almost certainly yes
See what I’m getting at In the loosest sense of the words, you could say that you don’t bite the hand that feeds you
The same applies in the situation that Waynedl found himself in, as sad as that is, when you’re running a business you’re running a business, whether you are contracted or not, if you blow a job out then there had better be a bloody good reason, dead dogs are not a good reason That may sound uncaring and similar to what I kicked off at Harry about in the first place, but when you employ someone you’re employing a person, people have problems like that, but businesses do not and as an Owner driver, you’re a business, so you could try to explain the situation and hope that whoever you deal with has some sympathy, but if they don’t, then you’ve got to do the job
As a driver you could leave and get another job on principle, even if that job wasn’t as good, the difference between a good job and a bad job is usually around a hundred quid a week, most people could absorb that, but if you leave a company as an almost full time subcontactor, finding new work is not so simple, Harry himself quoted one such example, he could go and work for Sealane, lose 500quid a week and go skint within six months
Carryfast:
kr79:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Now, back on topic, as an Owner Driver you’re more tied to a company than an employed driver, in Wayne’s case if he does get the boot he can have another job in a few phone calls or go on an agency, an Owner Driver getting the boot would be in a far worse position. To take it further, if you get on the tour/show circuit, do you really think that you could just leave the tour
Blimey nmm get real.The difference is that in a the case of subbing a load it’s just that.There’s only a contract,between the sub contractor/haulier and the ‘employer’/forwarder when that contractor/haulier agrees to take,or in this case even bothers to look for,‘that load’.In the case of an employee the contract is always there permanently during the contracted hours of work stated at the the time of the start of the employement.
The only time that situation could change in the case of an owner driver is if something unforeseen happens at home while on route.In which case I don’t think it’s unheard of for employed drivers or owner drivers to park the wagon up somewhere and get home by the fastest means possible which would probably be covered by the conditions of carriage between haulier and customer
Although in this case it seems to be the former type of issue which would have applied and which Harry was obviously referring to.There’s no comparison between the freedom which being an owner driver allows in the real world compared to the way in which a bad guvnor can make life hell for an employed driver.Which is obviously the type of situation and comparison that Harry was referring to.
If you had ever run a truck you would soon find out you start telling customers you can’t do jobs at short notice on a regular basis the phone will stop ringing especaly as in most owner drivers case you will be working for one customer pretty much all the time.
That’s from experience not from dreaming about driving a ken worth round Europe.I don’t think anyone has a family/personal crisis on a ‘regular basis’ though.But no thanks I wouldn’t want to base an owner driver operation on working for/being dependent on,one customer most of the time.As I said it ( should be ) all about being paid by the load/trip/mile,with no shortage of loads and it being my choice wether I haul it or not and if you’re reliant/dependent on the phone ringing,especially from one customer,for a load,in just the same way that an employed agency driver is,then I’d say that would just confirm my view not to start up in the first place.
I think you will find most owner drivers pretty much do that especaly longer distance work. Tipper work and local stuff maybe a bit different. Can be a good way to be with the right firm.
Own Account Driver:
You should print your posts out from here and stick them in an album. Then when you’re old and the grandkids come round their little faces will light up when you show them the album. They’ll say ‘wow grandad you actually had your own login on a truck drivers internet forum. We could look all day at the interesting pictures of the posts you made convincing yourself you weren’t too gutless to setup on your own and that by not doing so you were the one making the logical and smart commercial decision. The way you couldn’t satisfy yourself with just a few posts but were filled with such self doubt you continued into the thousands was truly stoical.’The way they’ll then look at you with new found respect will make your chest swell with pride.
I get the impression that Rob’s knowledge of operating trucks is about on a par with his understanding of European geography.
Rob K:
I’m so glad I never went through with doing euro work all those years ago and stuck to the mainland here.
But of course he is welcome to expand on what his knowledge is, as far as I can tell he has done a couple of months on containers and had a brief spell as an agency driver on supermarket work but that seems to be about it. 
As an owner you can get a driver in to drive the vehicle if something crops up.If you are an employed driver you cannot do that without asking your employer to authorise it.
Can’t see the need to argue about it.There are situations such as family bereavement etc all covered in your CPC syllabus where an employer has to allow you the time off.
As has been said already being your own boss allows you to make these decisions.
newmercman:
Carryfast:
Blimey nmm get real.:What real as in having real life experience of being an owner operator and then a small fleet owner, is that kind the kind of real you mean
In case you’ve not been receiving the news of the life and times of Harry Monk up on planet Carryfast, let me bring you up to speed…
Harry Monk owns a tractor unit, when he’s not arguing with me he uses the tractor unit primarily to pull trailers for old established transport company Gregorys, he has on the odd occaision pulled a trailer with his tractor unit for Luckings, who are involved in moving stage equipment and all that kind of thing, they’re another old established haulier wih, like Gregorys, a decent reputation, are you with me so far
Right, so, we know Harry (I’ll use his first name as we’re old aquaintances
Pause to let it sink in…
Now, Harry’s ruler drop around the radio stations and theatres of the home counties bears fruit, an harrassed stage manager calls as he needs to get a load of frilly frocks and Slimfast to a new venue for that night’s performance of Swan Lake, convieniently Harry is in the area, can he drop the Gregory trailer and zoom off on a theatrical mercy dash
See what I’m getting at
The same applies in the situation that Waynedl found himself in, as sad as that is, when you’re running a business you’re running a business, whether you are contracted or not, if you blow a job out then there had better be a bloody good reason, dead dogs are not a good reason
As a driver you could leave and get another job on principle, even if that job wasn’t as good, the difference between a good job and a bad job is usually around a hundred quid a week, most people could absorb that, but if you leave a company as an almost full time subcontactor, finding new work is not so simple, Harry himself quoted one such example, he could go and work for Sealane, lose 500quid a week and go skint within six months
Thanks for clarifying all that nmm.
But unfortunately I was just seeing it from my point of view in which I’d be working on the basis of working for lots of different cutomers,who’ve hopefully always got a load to go somewhere and if I don’t want to take it then someone else will and there’s no contract or obligation between me or the customer until I’ve agreed to put the load on the truck and the paperwork is all signed up to take it.I think that’s the definition of the average owner driver operation.
As opposed to the average employed driver who’s given a contract of employment which applies to the the hours of work as given on that contract.No ifs no buts.
Any type of owner driver operation that tied me to the latter type of contract,as opposed to the former type,isn’t something which I’d want to bother with and seems to me to be the worst of all worlds in having all the drawbacks of being an employed driver and an owner driver with non of the benefits of being a self employed owner driver.
Only Harry can say what type of agreement which he has and is happy to work with.
kr79:
Carryfast:
kr79:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Now, back on topic, as an Owner Driver you’re more tied to a company than an employed driver, in Wayne’s case if he does get the boot he can have another job in a few phone calls or go on an agency, an Owner Driver getting the boot would be in a far worse position. To take it further, if you get on the tour/show circuit, do you really think that you could just leave the tour
Blimey nmm get real.The difference is that in a the case of subbing a load it’s just that.There’s only a contract,between the sub contractor/haulier and the ‘employer’/forwarder when that contractor/haulier agrees to take,or in this case even bothers to look for,‘that load’.In the case of an employee the contract is always there permanently during the contracted hours of work stated at the the time of the start of the employement.
The only time that situation could change in the case of an owner driver is if something unforeseen happens at home while on route.In which case I don’t think it’s unheard of for employed drivers or owner drivers to park the wagon up somewhere and get home by the fastest means possible which would probably be covered by the conditions of carriage between haulier and customer
Although in this case it seems to be the former type of issue which would have applied and which Harry was obviously referring to.There’s no comparison between the freedom which being an owner driver allows in the real world compared to the way in which a bad guvnor can make life hell for an employed driver.Which is obviously the type of situation and comparison that Harry was referring to.
If you had ever run a truck you would soon find out you start telling customers you can’t do jobs at short notice on a regular basis the phone will stop ringing especaly as in most owner drivers case you will be working for one customer pretty much all the time.
That’s from experience not from dreaming about driving a ken worth round Europe.I don’t think anyone has a family/personal crisis on a ‘regular basis’ though.But no thanks I wouldn’t want to base an owner driver operation on working for/being dependent on,one customer most of the time.As I said it ( should be ) all about being paid by the load/trip/mile,with no shortage of loads and it being my choice wether I haul it or not and if you’re reliant/dependent on the phone ringing,especially from one customer,for a load,in just the same way that an employed agency driver is,then I’d say that would just confirm my view not to start up in the first place.
I think you will find most owner drivers pretty much do that especaly longer distance work. Tipper work and local stuff maybe a bit different.
As you know there’s absolutely no way that I’d bother with even thinking about starting up unless I was working on just long distance work on those type of terms where I could pick and choose where and when I run and what I do.If the work situation is that bad not to allow that ( probably ) then I can’t see many advantages between being an owner driver compared to being employed.
There are so many different types of haulage work,so I don’t think you can say that you would only consider long distance work,without knowing the other types of work there is for lorries.Some of which has good rates,if you know your industry.
Carryfast:
Only Harry can say what type of agreement which he has and is happy to work with.
I’m perfectly happy with the arrangement I’ve got now. The sub-contracting I do is good sound bread-and-butter work for a decent, friendly family-owned company with a 100% credit rating, I’ve already done a few bits and bobs of my own work, which is the jam, but promo is seasonal and doesn’t really get going until about Easter.
I don’t know what there will be this year, but it is shaping up to be busier than it has been for a good few years, which is an indication that a general upturn in the economy is expected in 2-3 years, promo is always one of the first sectors to recover after recession because major players realise that they have to get out early to push the brand before their rivals do.
Doing an exhibition, or even better a 2-3 month tour wouldn’t compromise my relationship with my current main customer at all, I was liaising with them about putting a truck on the road before I even took my CPC course and they know exactly what my business plan is and are equally happy to work round it, in fact they’ve been more than helpful in dovetailing loads around the “own work” I’ve done so far.
I’m sure not everybody an owner-operator could sub for would be the same, and that’s why I sub to who I do and not the others.
