owner driver

Harry Monk:

kr79:
Of course a owner driver has to make a profit one way or another how are you going to renew your truck at some point.

You have to make a profit, the important thing is not to show a profit. :wink:

It seems to me that a lot of people are confusing costs with profits.The fact is youā€™ll be taxed on profits not on costs and it would be financial suicide to factor in the depreciation and replacement costs of a unit on the profits side of the balance sheet first and then pay tax on it for the privilege. :open_mouth:

Maybe thatā€™s where some of the critics are going wrong. :laughing: :laughing:

As Iā€™ve said a decent wage after ā€˜allā€™ the costs have been accounted for should be the point and the object of an owner driver operation and itā€™s that issue which would be the basis of wether Iā€™d start up or continue an operation v shutting it down or not even starting up.At present I think the dividing line is too thin as the industry stands in general.IE I donā€™t think it would be easy enough to go out and find something with work that suits and that pays a good enough wage after costs in every case and/or sustain it. :bulb:

Harry Monk:

kr79:
RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

I Agree 100%
i must admit i looked back and read some of rob kā€™s older posts and it seems to me he has no experience of operating a truck and if the truth was told itā€™s not that long ago that he was as green as grass himself !

Moose:

Harry Monk:

kr79:
RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

I Agree 100%
i must admit i looked back and read some of rob kā€™s older posts and it seems to me he has no experience of operating a truck and if the truth was told itā€™s not that long ago that he was as green as grass himself !

I agree with both of the above, it seems RobK has been found out!!

Ross.

He wonā€™t even say what he does for a living. When pressed, the most he will ever say is ā€œa few trusted people knowā€ as if somebody is ā€œuntrustworthyā€ for politely asking him, or asking him where his knowledge of running a truck comes from.

He certainly hasnā€™t ever owned or operated a truck, but curiously this seems to be his favourite sub-forum where he regularly pops up to let everybody know that he wouldnā€™t own or operate a truck, just as he occasionally pops up on the Euro-forum to let everyone knowā€¦

Rob K:
Iā€™m so glad I never went through with doing euro work all those years ago and stuck to the mainland here.

:stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

It would be wrong to suggest that everybody from Yorkshire was thick, parochial, boorish and opinionated, because Iā€™ve met plenty of folk from Yorkshire who arenā€™t. But RobK does seem determined to perpetuate the Monty Python stereotype.

Running a haulage business with a calculater in your hand sounds ok but how many of you could pack up right now with no detbs,i know plenty who cant afford to stop due to finance,loans,. tax ,redundancy payouts,but also many who cant re new vehicles to carry on.

does anyone know what kinda mpg you would get from an R500ā– ā– 

Harry Monk:
I just cannot get my head around this idea that it is not possible to earn money as a small haulier. Iā€™m baffled when folk tell me that Iā€™m on a foolā€™s errand and that they will be amazed if I last the next week/month/year when the only person here who has access to my accounts is me, and Iā€™m quite happy to soldier on.

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

But thats the whole point of TNUK anit it? :wink:

I donā€™t get on here much anymore as it always seems to be the same old crap trotted out by the site ā€œexpertsā€. Sometimes there are grains of truth in what Special, Curryfart et al have to say but as a rule they make me wince.

Owner driver/operator, call it what you like, doesnā€™t mean you have to follow the prescribed route of taking the scraps off Joe ā– ā– ā– ā–  Haulageā€™s table and wearing the ā€œSubbyā€ badge.

Ok, you gotta start somewhere but if you donā€™t follow that up with effort in terms of securing your own spot hire work, repeat customers, contracts or all of the above, then you deserve what you get.
Dont get me wrong, Iā€™m not saying itā€™s an easy way to become a millionaire but itā€™s certainly better paying than spending your working life paying for Joe ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  new Jag. Imho of course.

I will say too that once youā€™ve picked up a few of your own customers it gives you one ā– ā– ā– ā–  of a buzz making it all work. If this sounds like too much effort stay on the payroll!

Harry Monk:

kr79:
But you know as well as anyone you have got to make a profit one way or another.

Thereā€™s a company with at least a dozen trucks whose entire business model consists of subcontracting to the company I subcontract to, theyā€™ve been doing it for years and run Volvo FH12s, all less than three years old. They get the same job rates that I do.

Logic dictates that I earn at least as much as their drivers, plus the share which their admin staff receive, plus the same profit margin which they make. Plus whatever the taxman takes from all of those folk. Plus working tax credits.

I just cannot get my head around this idea that it is not possible to earn money as a small haulier. Iā€™m baffled when folk tell me that Iā€™m on a foolā€™s errand and that they will be amazed if I last the next week/month/year when the only person here who has access to my accounts is me, and Iā€™m quite happy to soldier on.

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

No there is a living to be made Iā€™ve done it twice had a tipper and was doing
Ok but got done for drink driving. And last year I decided to dip my toe in general haulage. I hired the truck to start to see there was a living long term with a bought truck. Not a fortune but a living but the Canada thing started to fall in to place so I didnā€™t want to commit.

kr79:

Harry Monk:

kr79:
But you know as well as anyone you have got to make a profit one way or another.

Thereā€™s a company with at least a dozen trucks whose entire business model consists of subcontracting to the company I subcontract to, theyā€™ve been doing it for years and run Volvo FH12s, all less than three years old. They get the same job rates that I do.

Logic dictates that I earn at least as much as their drivers, plus the share which their admin staff receive, plus the same profit margin which they make. Plus whatever the taxman takes from all of those folk. Plus working tax credits.

I just cannot get my head around this idea that it is not possible to earn money as a small haulier. Iā€™m baffled when folk tell me that Iā€™m on a foolā€™s errand and that they will be amazed if I last the next week/month/year when the only person here who has access to my accounts is me, and Iā€™m quite happy to soldier on.

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

No there is a living to be made Iā€™ve done it twice had a tipper and was doing
Ok but got done for drink driving. And last year I decided to dip my toe in general haulage. I hired the truck to start to see there was a living long term with a bought truck. Not a fortune but a living but the Canada thing started to fall in to place so I didnā€™t want to commit.

Kev I think you made the best choice by far, Canada or o/d in the Uk , there was only one choice, where I work we are now kicking the subbies out for the Jan/Feb/mar months, they were promised the world at Christmas and this is what always happens this time of year, us employed drivers have work coming out of our ears :wink:
so the subbies who were on decent fridge work are now off down the docks chasing a bone which a thousand other pups are chasing .

Harry Monk:
He wonā€™t even say what he does for a living. When pressed, the most he will ever say is ā€œa few trusted people knowā€ as if somebody is ā€œuntrustworthyā€ for politely asking him, or asking him where his knowledge of running a truck comes from.

He certainly hasnā€™t ever owned or operated a truck, but curiously this seems to be his favourite sub-forum where he regularly pops up to let everybody know that he wouldnā€™t own or operate a truck, just as he occasionally pops up on the Euro-forum to let everyone knowā€¦

Rob K:
Iā€™m so glad I never went through with doing euro work all those years ago and stuck to the mainland here.

It would appear that mr k in the past did a bit of box jockey work and also agency shopping trolley type work, no mention of any graft,low loaders,flats,tippers,tanks,euro, abnormal type work, so i would of thought it would be hard to be so knowledgeable on the subject of owner drivers whilst being so limited on experience!
the thing i do know is that he likes being talked about on these forums :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Goaty:

Harry Monk:
I just cannot get my head around this idea that it is not possible to earn money as a small haulier. Iā€™m baffled when folk tell me that Iā€™m on a foolā€™s errand and that they will be amazed if I last the next week/month/year when the only person here who has access to my accounts is me, and Iā€™m quite happy to soldier on.

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

But thats the whole point of TNUK anit it? :wink:

I donā€™t get on here much anymore as it always seems to be the same old crap trotted out by the site ā€œexpertsā€. Sometimes there are grains of truth in what Special, Curryfart et al have to say but as a rule they make me wince.

Owner driver/operator, call it what you like, doesnā€™t mean you have to follow the prescribed route of taking the scraps off Joe [zb] Haulageā€™s table and wearing the ā€œSubbyā€ badge.

Ok, you gotta start somewhere but if you donā€™t follow that up with effort in terms of securing your own spot hire work, repeat customers, contracts or all of the above, then you deserve what you get.
Dont get me wrong, Iā€™m not saying itā€™s an easy way to become a millionaire but itā€™s certainly better paying than spending your working life paying for Joe [zb] new Jag. Imho of course.

I will say too that once youā€™ve picked up a few of your own customers it gives you one [zb] of a buzz making it all work. If this sounds like too much effort stay on the payroll!

Owner drivers that subcontract for a major haulier are really just lorry drivers that pay their own bills, obviously thereā€™s a lot more to it than that, they have the start up costs, have to keep their head above water and remain in business, recapitalise and replace their assets, do accounts and the rest of it, but really all theyā€™re doing is driving their own lorry for someone else. Not that thereā€™s anything wrong with that, each to their own and all that. Some even make good money at it and good luck to them.

On the other hand there are true small hauliers, such as yourself, you do some direct work, some secondhand work, you advertise your services and actively seek work, youā€™re responsible for making sure you have enough work to pay the bills, not leaving your fate in the hands of someone in a traffic office somewhere.

I did a little of both, a bit of direct work, which never paid the greatest rate, but it was good enough, I used to mix that up with secondhand work from various sources, some of that paid better than the direct work. In reality though the only way I went from one truck to more was by working the things 24hrs a day, that way the standing costs were halved per shift, I wouldnā€™t have lasted 5mins if I had my lorries parked up in 20 quid a night truckstops and paid drivers night out money on top, there just isnā€™t enough money in the job to sustain that on secondhand work. But my ambitions were different, I never wanted to be an owner driver, I went into business to make money and as much of that as I could, I had to look at things from a totally different perspective, as a driver I like doing long runs, but as a business owner I like short runs that pay well and cost SFA to do, that was the way I thought best.

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware

i must admit i looked back and read some of rob kā€™s older posts and it seems to me

He certainly hasnā€™t ever owned or operated a truck

It would appear that mr k

You know what they say about people who assume.

Rob K:
You know what they say about people who assume.

Yes, itā€™s awfull isnā€™t it?

Some people even assume that nobody can make any money as an owner driver in this day & age!!

You know what ā€˜theyā€™ say about people who assume!!

Ross.

PS, who T/F are ā€œtheyā€ā– ā– 

Go on, enlighten usā€¦

Rob K:

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware

i must admit i looked back and read some of rob kā€™s older posts and it seems to me

He certainly hasnā€™t ever owned or operated a truck

It would appear that mr k

You know what they say about people who assume.

Well, you are welcome to say what your experience or knowledge of the subject is, if you want to. Equally, if you want to keep quiet about it, then I fully understand. :wink:

Moose:
the thing i do know is that he likes being talked about on these forums :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

The one thing Iā€™m fairly certain of is that he is, and has always been, a ā€œTotal Merchant Bankerā€!! :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

Ross.

newmercman:

Goaty:

Harry Monk:
I just cannot get my head around this idea that it is not possible to earn money as a small haulier. Iā€™m baffled when folk tell me that Iā€™m on a foolā€™s errand and that they will be amazed if I last the next week/month/year when the only person here who has access to my accounts is me, and Iā€™m quite happy to soldier on.

RobK seems to be the prime example of this. As far as Iā€™m aware, he has absolutely no knowledge or experience of operating a truck but that doesnā€™t seem to stop him knowing more about it than everyone who ever has. One of lifeā€™s mysteries to me has always been that the less a person knows about something, the more opinionated they are about it.

But thats the whole point of TNUK anit it? :wink: y

I donā€™t get on here much anymore as it always seems to be the same old crap trotted out by the site ā€œexpertsā€. Sometimes there are grains of truth in what Special, Curryfart et al have to say but as a rule they make me wince.

Owner driver/operator, call it what you like, doesnā€™t mean you have to follow the prescribed route of taking the scraps off Joe [zb] Haulageā€™s table and wearing the ā€œSubbyā€ badge.

Ok, you gotta start somewhere but if you donā€™t follow that up with effort in terms of securing your own spot hire work, repeat customers, contracts or all of the above, then you deserve what you get.
Dont get me wrong, Iā€™m not saying itā€™s an easy way to become a millionaire but itā€™s certainly better paying than spending your working life paying for Joe [zb] new Jag. Imho of course.

I will say too that once youā€™ve picked up a few of your own customers it gives you one [zb] of a buzz making it all work. If this sounds like too much effort stay on the payroll!

Owner drivers that subcontract for a major haulier are really just lorry drivers that pay their own bills, obviously thereā€™s a lot more to it than that, they have the start up costs, have to keep their head above water and remain in business, recapitalise and replace their assets, do accounts and the rest of it, but really all theyā€™re doing is driving their own lorry for someone else. Not that thereā€™s anything wrong with that, each to their own and all that. Some even make good money at it and good luck to them.

On the other hand there are true small hauliers, such as yourself, you do some direct work, some secondhand work, you advertise your services and actively seek work, youā€™re responsible for making sure you have enough work to pay the bills, not leaving your fate in the hands of someone in a traffic office somewhere.

I did a little of both, a bit of direct work, which never paid the greatest rate, but it was good enough, I used to mix that up with secondhand work from various sources, some of that paid better than the direct work. In reality though the only way I went from one truck to more was by working the things 24hrs a day, that way the standing costs were halved per shift, I wouldnā€™t have lasted 5mins if I had my lorries parked up in 20 quid a night truckstops and paid drivers night out money on top, there just isnā€™t enough money in the job to sustain that on secondhand work. But my ambitions were different, I never wanted to be an owner driver, I went into business to make money and as much of that as I could, I had to look at things from a totally different perspective, as a driver I like doing long runs, but as a business owner I like short runs that pay well and cost SFA to do, that was the way I thought best.

Thing with owner driving/small haulage outfits is like certain business such as running a bar or restraunt many people let there heart rule there head. How often do we open a copy of truck and driver especially when there was easy credit around to see someone with a blinged up v8 scania or an fh16 telling us how they would be the next stobart from a start subbing boxes out of the ports.
Yes there are many owner drivers and little firms doing ok but to many if they look at it running round for a pittance of a wage. At the end of the day itā€™s these people who are responsible for keeping rates nailed to the floor.

bigr250:

Moose:
the thing i do know is that he likes being talked about on these forums :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

The one thing Iā€™m fairly certain of is that he is, and has always been, a ā€œTotal Merchant Bankerā€!! :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

Ross.

I can feel the love :laughing:

The thing with this whole thread is that it is all peopleā€™s opinions, there is no one right or wrong answer, there are people with secondhand pound a mile work and theyā€™re making enough money to keep themself happy, there are others with high paying work who are struggling, thereā€™s people somewhere in the middle and there are still people out there who want to be an owner driver, some will think theyā€™re mad, some will admire their courage, others wonā€™t give a toss one way or the other.

It all starts getting a bit silly when people start pontificating and are so far up their own arse that they refuse to see anyone elseā€™s opinions for what they are, just opinions. If you start gobbing off that your way is the only way, no matter which side of the fence you sit on, then youā€™re wrong, even if youā€™re right, weā€™re not discussing facts here so there is no right or wrong, it might be an idea for a few posters to remember that before they make themself look even sillier than they have already :bulb:

what they like to work for :question: good or bad :question:

thinking of buying a 164 480 scania with around 600k on the clock. are they a good truck?? is there anything to look out for? whats the mpg like? can anyone help me out here? cheers. :slight_smile: