Roymondo:
No, what he actually wrote is “For the regs the journey is from base/home then back to base/home and all parts of that journey must legally be officially recorded”
And I am saying that nowhere in the Regs does it say this. The only mention of home or base is in respect of the vehicle’s location, not that of the driver.
Which in reality means the same thing
I did not say that wording was IN the regs - I said FOR the regs or in other words a different way of saying the same thing
And I’m saying that’s one situation that fits the Regs - but it’s not the only one. Nowhere does it say that the travelling must begin or end at home (or your usual base).
If the vehicle is not at home or base then getting to it or from it requires the travelling to be legally recorded
I can see situations where this would not be the case
If the vehicle base was Leicester and I have been on holiday in skeggy with the wife who has a car licence for the past week then got a call asking me to bring that vehicle from skeggy to Leicester - the wife could drive the car and I could drive the lorry
As I travelled to skeggy a week ago I cannot see how that journey would need recording for the regs
ROG:
If the vehicle is not at home or base then getting to it or from it requires the travelling to be legally recorded
I can see situations where this would not be the case
If the vehicle base was Leicester and I have been on holiday in skeggy with the wife who has a car licence for the past week then got a call asking me to bring that vehicle from skeggy to Leicester - the wife could drive the car and I could drive the lorry
As I travelled to skeggy a week ago I cannot see how that journey would need recording for the regs
This is the point I am trying to make! The traveling to/from the vehicle doesn’t necessarily have to start (or finish) at your home (or your usual base). Ergo, your Rest period does not have to end at the same place it started. I rest my case.
It seems to me that in view of the Skills Coaches case, the important point might be whether it was planned and/or frequent. If it was unlikely that the OP’s trip could be normally done in 15 hours, and the driver was nearly always recovered in this way, then VOSA would come down hard. If the trip was nearly always achieved in 13 hours, but occasionally took longer, then I don’t see a problem.
scanny77:
If a driver runs out of duty time and the load is needed, what happens to the driver? A mate ran out of time recently and the company came out to bring the truck in but left him at the side of the road. I cant see how that is legal and i personally would not have handed the keys over without knowing how THEY were getting me back to my car
It is totally illegal. What springs to my mind is that the employer has expected to load/journey to continue as if nothing has happened. The employer has actually had no regard to the rest requirements of the driver. The driver himself has been complicit in this, as instead of shutting off at his allotted hours he has contacted them, and remained “on duty” (whether he records it or not) and awaited the hand over of the truck. He then wants to complain about it after he’s done it?
He’s then either gone home or back to the yard to get his car i assume?
The employer just wants his load, the driver just wants to go home. They both broke the law. According to what you’ve said above, you’d break the law too so long as they showed you some regard as to how you’re going to get back.
So let’s take this to its ridiculous conclusion. The driver wants to get home and the employer wants his veh icle back because the load is urgent The vehicle is collected by the employer and the driver makes his own way home. In the morning in order to comply with the law, the driver makes his own way back to where he left the vehicle ( as is required) and … wait for it… wait for it… it’s not there! - because it’s back in the yard.
What? pray, do the men in suits who make the laws propose happens next?
cav551:
So let’s take this to its ridiculous conclusion. The driver wants to get home and the employer wants his veh icle back because the load is urgent The vehicle is collected by the employer and the driver makes his own way home. In the morning in order to comply with the law, the driver makes his own way back to where he left the vehicle ( as is required) and … wait for it… wait for it… it’s not there! - because it’s back in the yard.
What? pray, do the men in suits who make the laws propose happens next?
I reckon getting yourself home and allowing your employer to carry his vehicle/load onwards is tantamount to breaking the law. For the reasons i said above.
But there is no ‘ridiculous conclusion’ to come to. Its a scenario played out across the country everyday by thousands of drivers…the question…“out of time. Now what?”
Everyone can try and make it as complicated as they like to carry on the load, get home or whatever. The laws pretty clear on what you can do, or can’t.
But there is no ‘ridiculous conclusion’ to come to .
Its a scenario played out across the country everyday by thousands of drivers…
…the question…“out of time. Now what?”
Answer - Simple. >>>>>>>
Unforeseen events Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, and to enable a driver to reach a suitable stopping place
, a departure from the EU rules may be permitted to the extent necessary to ensure the safety of persons, the vehicle or its load. Drivers must note all the reasons for doing so on the back of their tachograph record sheets (if using an analogue tachograph), or on a printout or temporary sheet (if using a digital tachograph) at the latest on reaching the suitable stopping place (see relevant sections covering manual entries).
Repeated and regular occurrences, however, might indicate to enforcement officers that
employers were not in fact scheduling work to enable compliance with the applicable rules.
Everyone can try and make it as complicated as they like to carry on the load, get home or whatever.
The laws pretty clear on what you can do, or can’t.
shuttlespanker:
sorry, but, i would not have let the truck go! if the planners can’t do the job properly, it is not the drivers fault (providing that the driver informed the planners that he would not make it back to the yard)
happens at stobrats everyday!
Yep planned for 17 hrs sat ,11 a.m start sat,finish 4 a.m Sunday,planner just said,YOU SHOULD KNOW hOW IT WORKS .
You’d think at times he wrote the rule books ,but as long as you don’t end up out of pocket,I guess you just have too live with it,zb am I spending 45 hrs in a tin box at the side of the road
One of our drivers was told by a DCPC trainer (yes I know !!),that he could not book off on his paper chart at the main dealers when he had dropped his lorry off,he said his travelling time to home must be recorded as other work and his home must be his " end destination".
Just to explain, all our lorries were back at base Friday morning for loading.We took 4 or so to the dealers,about 5 miles away,and brought the drivers back to base for about 1pm.where they booked off and went home.This drivers wife used to pick him up from base and take him home,about 40 miles (he let her have the car because he was away all week.) As the dealership where his lorry was dropped was nearer his home than base she collected him from there whenever he took it in for service. Going over the hours was never an issue ,we only worked approx 4 1/2 day week.
At the time I was the one who checked the charts and thought the info he had been given was a bit doubtful. Anyway I rang the trainer up,and he was adamant he was right.I said what if halfway home his wife says lets not go home,lets go see Aunty Mable in Blackpool,stay a couple of nights and go home Sunday. Does he book off in Blackpool(he be over his hours now!!) or does he book off at home on Sunday(well over his hours !!) It went a bit quiet,said thats an interesting point, and he would get back to me.
He never did,and as I’m now retired,I’m not too fussed,just interested what others make of this?
Regards John.
An Agency driver on day work may well be booking on in a different town each day of the week. It would be possible even for him to be working for the same operator. Tesco Dagenham, Thurrock and Snodland are all within a reasonable commuting distance of one another. Snodland is actually run by Wincanton, but the point stands.
We seem to be coming to the conclusion that a driver who runs out of time on the Friday afternoon before he flies off on holiday in the early hours of the next day is in a bit of a fix. As is his employer who must leave the vehicle in a lay-by for the next two weeks.
cav551:
An Agency driver on day work may well be booking on in a different town each day of the week. It would be possible even for him to be working for the same operator. Tesco Dagenham, Thurrock and Snodland are all within a reasonable commuting distance of one another. Snodland is actually run by Wincanton, but the point stands.
We seem to be coming to the conclusion that a driver who runs out of time on the Friday afternoon before he flies off on holiday in the early hours of the next day is in a bit of a fix. As is his employer who must leave the vehicle in a lay-by for the next two weeks.
You seem to be making up scenarios that address your complicating of the rules. Whats hard to understand about this…
CHAPTER III LIABILITY OF TRANSPORT UNDERTAKINGS Article 10
A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation. 2. A transport undertaking shall organise the work of drivers referred to in paragraph 1 in such a way that the drivers are able to comply with Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and Chapter II of this Regulation. The transport undertaking shall properly instruct the driver and shall make regular checks to ensure that Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and Chapter II of this Regulation are complied with
Was told this by vosa about 2 yearsago in similar situation
Driver ran out of hours 45 mins from yard on a fri night and his son was taken into hospital
I wemt out met him gave him my car he went off to hospital i drove truck back
I got stopped at vosa checkpoint 25 mins into journey
Was told at time by mr vosa that
He could travel in company vehicle van car etc back to yard but would count as work time
But if was given a company vehicle and was free to do what he wanted and not return to base that night to collect his car then this was perfectly legal and the way i hAd done it was legal
Under the circumstances even the vosa guy said even if it wasnt youve done the best thing getting him back to the hospital for his son
- Simple. 
>>>>>>> 
.