Hello, if a tanker wagon is classed as out of scope, can an operative, say a mechanic works from 7am until 5 pm on his normal job and go drive the tanker until 12 o’clock at night then be back at work for his mechanic shift at 7 the next morning,
And do that all week,
It dosent sound right to me.
Ps the so called tm is working with him,
jimroyale:
Hello, if a tanker wagon is classed as out of scope, can an operative, say a mechanic works from 7am until 5 pm on his normal job and go drive the tanker until 12 o’clock at night then be back at work for his mechanic shift at 7 the next morning,
And do that all week,
It dosent sound right to me.
Ps the so called tm is working with him,
It’s not the truck that’s “out of scope”, it’s the work that it’s doing. I can’t see much tanker work being “out of scope” unless it is on site work only. In which case you probably wouldn’t use a tacho anyway.
It is the work which the driver is doing with the vehicle which governs whether it is considered out of scope.
If this is a genuine Emergency then as a one-off maybe Paragraph one could be argued to be OK providing the “mechanic” doesn’t drive any company vehicle at all during the second spannering shift. But to do it all week is definitely out as would be doing it again at the end of his second shift. The same if he and the TM do it alternate nights
Even that is stretching the point. I think the TC would take a dim view of this “mechanic” carrying out PMIs or safety critical work during his second shift.
In practice although the Emergency situation may remain at 24 hours it then becomes a plannable event with the ability to subsitute drivers who can stay within the normal driving and working hours.
If you are working for said company may I strongly suggest you go find another job before you’re in an accident caused by mechanical failure that kills or seriously injures you or another person, especially if it’s with tankers.
vimcar.co.uk/resources/blog/hgv … implified/
What If My Drivers Have Other Jobs?
HGV working time directives do not only apply to driving duties.
If your drivers perform other work during their off-driving hours, it’s considered working duties and does not count as rest.
This includes self-employed work, community service, Driver CPC training, and emergency service activities. The EU’s HGV working time directives take precedence over other break requirements.
assets.publishing.service.gov.u … -rules.pdf
Case studies page…there are two scenarios that cover the driver doing other work at the start of the day before getting into a vehicle, both scenarios show that the non-driving work done are included when calculating rest breaks.
Is it out of scope as in being used on private ground and not being used on a public highway?
If so then I would have thought its legal.
msgyorkie:
Is it out of scope as in being used on private ground and not being used on a public highway?
If so then I would have thought its legal.
It isn’t. Even non-driving work is included when calculating rest breaks for EU drivers hours regs. In the situation described above the mechanic is in breach of daily rest requirements every day they work.
Is it out of scope or is it exempt from the regs? Out of scope definitely illegal but if it’s exempt then it’s fine
some people seem to think they can do a days work and then because there not on the road they can go out of scope and carry on doing work and movements, trust me if and when DVSA do a head download you are going to be seriously out of pocket
If the vehicle does not go onto the public highway then its use does not come under EU or UK regs
I could be a LGV yard shunter for a 16 hour shift with no breaks and although silly it would be legal but if I went do much as a metre onto the public highway then ALL of it comes under the regs
Can we assume the tanker is driven on the road? If so, whilst out of scope EU regs, with very, very, very few exemptions, it would revert to domestic hours, so assuming mechanic does a 15 min walk around check before driving, his days work must stop 4( mins later - max daily work time is only 11hrs.
TM deserves a trip to meet the TC without the options of biccies,along with the mechanic popping to a driver conduct hearing at the same time.
Doesn’t matter of he can do that under the driving regs as if he has a serious accident then HSE come in with the Health and Safety at Work Act. Driver, TM and any company directors then end up in a whole pile of do-do that often involves massive fines or prison (if convicted).
Even the Traffic Commissioner might not be happy if they find out this is going on, purely on basis of safety. They might not have power to act directly, but if company comes to their attention it could be “noted” if they were aware of it.
Cant see why the TM would risk it.
The tanker will be driven on a public roads and its work for a utilities company jetting cable ducts for fibre optics,
It just doesn’t seem right to be able to operate and drive a truck for 17 hour at least in total, then back on shift at 7 am,
I have asked the tm if this is right and he has said it is,
I think the tanker is o license excempet or something like that,would that make a difference?
Just seems alot of hours especially with a 17 ton truck involved,
Acorn:
Can we assume the tanker is driven on the road? If so, whilst out of scope EU regs, with very, very, very few exemptions, it would revert to domestic hours, so assuming mechanic does a 15 min walk around check before driving, his days work must stop 4( mins later - max daily work time is only 11hrs.
TM deserves a trip to meet the TC without the options of biccies,along with the mechanic popping to a driver conduct hearing at the same time.
If it does not go onto the public road then it comes under NO regs
It’s on public roads
jimroyale:
The tanker will be driven on a public roads and its work for a utilities company jetting cable ducts for fibre optics,
It just doesn’t seem right to be able to operate and drive a truck for 17 hour at least in total, then back on shift at 7 am,
I have asked the tm if this is right and he has said it is,
I think the tanker is o license excempet or something like that,would that make a difference?
Just seems alot of hours especially with a 17 ton truck involved,
As far as I can see Fibre optics, which is phones / internet, is not a utility listed as being exempt.
DVSA has given lots of guidance, that is also a warning to those why try to abuse it, on the exemption and republished by lots of sources, such as. transportoperator.co.uk/2014/04 … -vehicles/
There’s not a problem, until they get stopped or something goes wrong, then it all goes very wrong.
Wether it’s right or not.
Who in there right mind would do a job involving 17 hr shifts .
7 hours off then back in again.
Bad enough doing 13/15 and having 9 off
edd1974:
Wether it’s right or not.
Who in there right mind would do a job involving 17 hr shifts .
7 hours off then back in again.
Bad enough doing 13/15 and having 9 off
Absolutely…
Who would be daft enough to do a job involving 3X15 hour shifts in a row?
45 hours by Wednesday when normal peeps are going home on Friday after 40+ hours.
Under GB domestic there’s an 11 hour duty limit, this is not a shift limit, as only driving and other work count.
But if you don’t drive for more than 4 hour on any day of the week (Mon - sun) then you’re exempt from the 11 hour duty rule.
But the employer has an obligation to ensure the employee has adequate rest.
Under the parts of the WTD that apply then again adequate rests, health checks as he’s a night worker and a 48 hour max working week, but this can be individually opted out of.
yourhavingalarf:
edd1974:
Wether it’s right or not.
Who in there right mind would do a job involving 17 hr shifts .
7 hours off then back in again.
Bad enough doing 13/15 and having 9 offAbsolutely…
Who would be daft enough to do a job involving 3X15 hour shifts in a row?
45 hours by Wednesday when normal peeps are going home on Friday after 40+ hours.
Yes please. Add a 13 hour day for the perfect week.
(Oh, and then 4 days off of course)
stevieboy308:
a 48 hour max working week, but this can be individually opted out of.
Not if you’re a mobile worker.