haribo4000:
Also POA why does this not count as a break in UK?
It must be the only EU law that the UK doesnt partake in lol
POA shouldn’t count as break in any EU country, in fact the EU Directive 2002/15/EC specifically say that POA is not break time
Ok, if this is the case, then why does your driving time still reset after 45 mins on POA■■?
The digital tachograph counting POA as beak is actually a fault in the tachograph, you should be aware that even though the tachograph will count 45 minutes of POA as break it’s not break and could lead to you getting infringements.
Do 2 hours driving then 45 minutes POA and the tachograph will reset the driving time but if you now do another 4½ hours driving before having a break as the tachograph will let you and you can expect an infringement or if you get stopped by VOSA you can expect a fine.
As robinhood_1984 says the digital tachograph was introduced before the regulations had finished changing and it wasn’t just the WTD that was still changing.
The digital tachograph was made compulsory for new vehicles in 2006 and yet the final changes to the drivers hours regulations took place in January 2008.
Hi tachograph
thanks for the welcome back
just to let you know the reason it does this is co’s it as to for doubled manned operations, if it did not do it drivers who just swap driving would get infringements galor.
limeyphil:
it’s like living in a ■■■■ dictatorship, but so many people can’t see it.
too many sheep/yes men.
why the hell should i be penalised for working too much?
if i want to drive for 6 or 7 hours to get home, then i will. some days 6 or 7 minutes and i can’t be bothered. i don’t need a tachograph, politition, policeman, vosa, or magistrate to tell me what is or isn’t safe.
I can see were you’re coming from Phil, I happen to agree with you, there does need to be some sort of limit though really. When you go over half an hour(ish) to get home/parked somewhere decent, then brick it for the next 6 months about getting fingered by the man.
I just wish they were more flexible with the driving limit, like a 12 hour shift limit, you must take an hours break in the day, split in 2 if you like but it’s up to you when you take it, illegal to plan you more than 450 miles per day or some such, that would deal with getting held up in traffic. It’s not the driving that’s tiring it’s the long 15 hour days that knacker you, hanging around for some work shy bleeders to unload/load your trailer. Some blokes may not be as sensible in knowing when to stop and take a break if they’re tired. The punishment for having an accident whilst driving tired should be enough of a deterrent to prevent guys doing it rather than worrying about fines from Vosa.
I think that’s more or less (with the exception that the existing 45 minute break is enough and the extra speed and longer driving time allowance would probably get more work done than just 450 miles in a shift ) what I said in this topic and almost started WW3.
Fatboy slimslow:
Did you pay for your first three Pal?
Your first statement is wrong in that you are not splitting a daily rest. You are simply taking a 45 minute break in two parts. of which you mention the first part must be a 15 + 30 or 45 minute break.
Your next statement says that you take 3 hours plus nine later counts as 11 off.
At my school it counted for 12 hours off?Have a word with your CPC trainer pal!
I shall simplify for you as you seem to be missing the point! 4.5 hr drive = 45 min break but go over by a minute = infringement six hour rule= 30 min break as if you go a minute over six hours 30 mins will cover you! Agreed? 15 min if you’re under six hours! now if you work as I said 6 hrs to nine hours as WTD as soon as you bust nine hours by a minute RT ( wt ) R kicks in 45 minute break will cover you! Keeping up old beam? put it this way you wouldn’t be working that hard anyway!
4 hrs 31 mins driving = infringement
9 hrs 01 min = ten hour drive
13 hrs 01 min = reduction ( 15 hour spread )
10 hrs 59 min = reduction ( 9 hours off )
More ways to skin a cat here at stobarts pal, they paid for it I manipulate the rules and regs to suit me! As for going to school pal I know 3 hrs plus 9 hrs = twelve hrs but it equals eleven off hence four nights out in reality four nines! Waynedl when you go into Trafford pal have a brew and look on the board and see who’s bottom of the table for WTD! There again I’ve learnt nothing me
Fatboy slimslow:
Did you pay for your first three Pal?
Your first statement is wrong in that you are not splitting a daily rest. You are simply taking a 45 minute break in two parts. of which you mention the first part must be a 15 + 30 or 45 minute break.
Your next statement says that you take 3 hours plus nine later counts as 11 off.
At my school it counted for 12 hours off?Have a word with your CPC trainer pal!
I shall simplify for you as you seem to be missing the point! 4.5 hr drive = 45 min break but go over by a minute = infringement six hour rule= 30 min break as if you go a minute over six hours 30 mins will cover you! Agreed? 15 min if you’re under six hours! now if you work as I said 6 hrs to nine hours as WTD as soon as you bust nine hours by a minute RT ( wt ) R kicks in 45 minute break will cover you! Keeping up old beam? put it this way you wouldn’t be working that hard anyway!
4 hrs 31 mins driving = infringement
9 hrs 01 min = ten hour drive
13 hrs 01 min = reduction ( 15 hour spread )
10 hrs 59 min = reduction ( 9 hours off )
More ways to skin a cat here at stobarts pal, they paid for it I manipulate the rules and regs to suit me! As for going to school pal I know 3 hrs plus 9 hrs = twelve hrs but it equals eleven off hence four nights out in reality four nines! Waynedl when you go into Trafford pal have a brew and look on the board and see who’s bottom of the table for WTD! There again I’ve learnt nothing me
Now you are rambling, let us disect your posts. Firstly everyone was talking about drivers hours, in particular the legislation, but you come out with some pony and trap.
1.Europeans use the square symbol as their break, we use it as (2. illegal P.O.A! ) 3. we use bed as 45 min break! 4.Try doing that on the continent! They use bed only to record GOING TO BED! That’s why it resets after 45 mins!
1.That is true if you are on a double manned Shearings Coach on an 18-30 holiday.
Illegal POA. Why?
BED. Break / Rest. There are only 2 other modes. Working and Availability
Done it since 1985. Never been fined for using wrong mode, never even had a company infringement for what they are worth.
4.5 hr drive = 45 min break but go over by a minute = infringement 2. six hour rule= 30 min break as if you go a minute over six hours 30 mins will cover you! Agreed? 15 min if you’re under six hours! now if you work as I said 6 hrs to nine hours as WTD as soon as you bust nine hours by a minute RT ( wt ) R kicks in 45 minute break will cover you! Keeping up old beam? put it this way you wouldn’t be working that hard anyway!
Quite Simple at 270 minutes driving you must take a 45 minute break from driving. 561/2006
A break must be taken if you work over 6 hours. Breaks must be a minimum of 15 minutes. RTD
Two sets of regulations to prevent a driver from becoming overtired. These breaks are for recuperation only, and can be taken on a plastic canteen chair, in the vehicle or in a cafe.
Just whilst everybody was talking about it. I managed to get from Leeds via a petrol garage on the M62 and then up the A1 to edinburgh depot today. Just as I pulled up at the fuel bay in the depot the digi tacho rolled round to 4 hours 30 mins I have the print out to prove it which I will scan and post up when I get a chance.
Kinda feel there needs to be some leeway when you are within a 5 mile radius of a depot or something. I could have very easily ended up at the side of the road 2 mins away from depot having to take a 45 min break (would not have been happy at all LOL)
Panther Collection:
Just whilst everybody was talking about it. I managed to get from Leeds via a petrol garage on the M62 and then up the A1 to edinburgh depot today. Just as I pulled up at the fuel bay in the depot the digi tacho rolled round to 4 hours 30 mins I have the print out to prove it which I will scan and post up when I get a chance.
Kinda feel there needs to be some leeway when you are within a 5 mile radius of a depot or something. I could have very easily ended up at the side of the road 2 mins away from depot having to take a 45 min break (would not have been happy at all LOL)
According to VOSA’s fixed penalties list if you exceed the 4½ hour driving time by no more than 15 minutes and it’s an isolated case rather than a regular occurrence they will issue a verbal warning.
Not quite what you’re suggesting but better than nothing, having said that I agree a few minutes leeway to reach your destination would be fair.
Panther Collection:
Just whilst everybody was talking about it. I managed to get from Leeds via a petrol garage on the M62 and then up the A1 to edinburgh depot today. Just as I pulled up at the fuel bay in the depot the digi tacho rolled round to 4 hours 30 mins I have the print out to prove it which I will scan and post up when I get a chance.
Kinda feel there needs to be some leeway when you are within a 5 mile radius of a depot or something. I could have very easily ended up at the side of the road 2 mins away from depot having to take a 45 min break (would not have been happy at all LOL)
According to VOSA’s fixed penalties list if you exceed the 4½ hour driving time by no more than 15 minutes and it’s an isolated case rather than a regular occurrence they will issue a verbal warning.
Not quite what you’re suggesting but better than nothing, having said that I agree a few minutes leeway to reach your destination would be fair.
tachograph:
As robinhood_1984 says the digital tachograph was introduced before the regulations had finished changing and it wasn’t just the WTD that was still changing.
The digital tachograph was made compulsory for new vehicles in 2006 and yet the final changes to the drivers hours regulations took place in January 2008.
Strange thing is - even though the digital tacho has been ‘revised’ recently this same thing still happens. if it was an error in the programming why didn’t they fix it in the latest revision? Most people wish they would
tachograph:
As robinhood_1984 says the digital tachograph was introduced before the regulations had finished changing and it wasn’t just the WTD that was still changing.
The digital tachograph was made compulsory for new vehicles in 2006 and yet the final changes to the drivers hours regulations took place in January 2008.
Strange thing is - even though the digital tacho has been ‘revised’ recently this same thing still happens. if it was an error in the programming why didn’t they fix it in the latest revision? Most people wish they would
Thats because its not an error in the programming.
They are European and in europe POA can be/is used to record breaks. In the uk POA is used as POA and not as break. the only time POA is used as break in the UK is when double manning, card no 2 automatically records as POA and the first 45 minutes of this counts as break.
The companies manufacturing the tacho machines and software for them do not make them specifically for the UK, hence why your driving hours will reset after 45 mins on POA. They are for EU use. this is also the reason they run in UTC.
haribo4000:
The companies manufacturing the tacho machines and software for them do not make them specifically for the UK, hence why your driving hours will reset after 45 mins on POA. They are for EU use. this is also the reason they run in UTC.
Continental Europe is further from UTC than we are. The reason they use UTC is because it’s a way of unambiguously identifying a single point in time, regardless of date or location. Local time is not like this, as some times appear more than once (1:30AM on October 28th will happen twice in Britain this year, for example), especially if you’re changing country.
wilbur:
The reason they use UTC is because it’s a way of unambiguously identifying a single point in time, regardless of date or location. Local time is not like this, as some times appear more than once (1:30AM on October 28th will happen twice in Britain this year, for example), especially if you’re changing country.
That is basically what I was saying, The tacho machine isn’t specifically made for UK regs.
Thanks for the extra info though.
The POA is for the boss to extend your hours, it is work your at work and you can not do as you please ,the silly WTD should be binned and the tacho hours revised into 2012 for gods sake have you no homes to go to,just thought why not allow single people to work as long as they wish.
tachograph:
As robinhood_1984 says the digital tachograph was introduced before the regulations had finished changing and it wasn’t just the WTD that was still changing.
The digital tachograph was made compulsory for new vehicles in 2006 and yet the final changes to the drivers hours regulations took place in January 2008.
Strange thing is - even though the digital tacho has been ‘revised’ recently this same thing still happens. if it was an error in the programming why didn’t they fix it in the latest revision? Most people wish they would
Thats because its not an error in the programming.
They are European and in europe POA can be/is used to record breaks. In the uk POA is used as POA and not as break. the only time POA is used as break in the UK is when double manning, card no 2 automatically records as POA and the first 45 minutes of this counts as break.
The companies manufacturing the tacho machines and software for them do not make them specifically for the UK, hence why your driving hours will reset after 45 mins on POA. They are for EU use. this is also the reason they run in UTC.
Well you learn summat new every day, I always thought UK was in Europe but Haribo has decided its not
It is true in the UK at least that the first 45 minutes of availability (on a multi manned journey) will be accepted as BREAK for the driver who is using slot 2.
six hour rule= 30 min break as if you go a minute over six hours 30 mins will cover you! Agreed? 
15 min if you’re under six hours! 
now if you work as I said 6 hrs to nine hours as WTD as soon as you bust nine hours by a minute RT ( wt ) R kicks in 45 minute break will cover you! Keeping up old beam? 
I have the print out to prove it which I will scan and post up when I get a chance.
