On the fence

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

As a potential new entrant to HGV driving I stumbled across this article: transportoperator.co.uk/2016/01/29/3568/
Apologies if it is a re-post. Yes I realise it’s a few years old, but the comments, largely from disillusioned drivers, span virtually up to date and are almost exclusively negative about the profession, the poor working conditions, entry costs for newcomers vs. poor pay, lack of respect for drivers, over-legislation etc. etc. It made quite sobering reading for someone trying to weigh up whether the costs of entry vs. potential earning power and questionable working conditions are actually worth it.

I don’t want to open pandora’s box here or ■■■■ on anyone’s bonfire if you are already training/ working/ enjoying driving as a job, but wondered whether any other potential newbies have been put off by the reality that there appears to be no shortage of qualified HGV drivers. There are plenty of qualified drivers out there but they have turned their back on HGV driving due to pay, conditions, working hours and a lack of respect for the profession.

2

Firstly lorry driving isn’t for everyone, it isn’t just another job its a way of life almost, there are no set hours as such because you never know what will happen out on the road and you are subject to the whims of everyone else.

Too many haven’t the first idea of what being out on the road is like, but they can’t spend several ££££ quickly enough Before, not after, finding out.

Many older long term lorry drivers always wanted to be lorry drivers and started out on vans, and as you could in those days 7.5 tonners, by the time they reached the rip old age of 21 they’d often covered hundreds of thousands of miles, invaluable experience not just to what the job entails but learning the roads on a vehicle of sensible size, almost no one does this any more and when some of us mention doing so its completely ignored, its like that £3k or whatever is burning a hole in their pocket and they must go and drive a lorry or bust.

There are thousands of disillusioned lorry drivers out there, we all work with a good proportion of them, moaning endlessly this is wrong thats wrong he’s got a better run pay wagon or whatever their gripe of the second may be, if you paid 'em a grand a week to lie in bed it would still be wrong, but funnily enough they stay, weird doesn’t begin to cover it, one can only assume they are happiest when moaning…but, many play this game to get out of working, they constantly moan deliberately to make it unpleasant for the planners, so when an awkward jobs comes up its given to someone who isn’t a walking depression.

Look, there are good jobs and bad jobs out there, there used to be lots of good jobs but between greed from companies (and increased legal implications so directors put haulage out to contract so they aren’t responsible), and stupidity greed laziness and incompetence from too many within the industry, the large number of really good jobs has dwindled to a minority, and still too many of the fools lucky enough to have plum jobs don’t realise what they have so don’t look after it :unamused: .

So do i enjoy my job, yes even after 40 odd years (not in the same job of course), am i well paid and treated, yes and no surprise the job has a decent recognised union of which i am a member and have been for ever.
DCPC and all the other ■■■■■■■■, we don’t take a lot of notice of it, its a legal requirement, politicians/apparatchiks came up with it to satisfy some mates of theirs probably, so what?, this sort of ■■■■■■■■ is the same everywhere, its politicians and others justifying their non jobs and giving themselves a pat on the back for not fixing the serious skills deterioration within the industry, this applies to lots of industries of course which have been dumbed down, what has been sown is being reaped many fold, good.
I get paid for the course and the course is paid for and its an easy day sat in a chair listening and talking ■■■■■■■■, could be worse could be outside trying to dig holes in the road in current -temps.

Would i do it again, quite likely, it suits me and i’ve been lucky in many ways, beats the hell out of being stuck in an office or workshop with the same miserable buggers day in day out, or worse still having to be civil to an increasingly uncivil public.
The job is like every other one, its what you make of it, won’t be easy at first, no job is, but if you like it and find your niche there’s far worse jobs out there.

The question is do you want to be a lorry driver, or is just another job, if the latter it might not work out so well.

3

It would seem logical to do some multi-drop in a van or something before diving in.

I suppose it is good that some people are interested enough to get their licence, but there must be something going wrong, but what?

The CPC and the lack of buckshee 7.5 tonne isn’t really helping, but it is what the industry has to deal with.

It can’t be denied that prime driving time would be mid-twenties to mid-thirties, as the article says. Starting later will no doubt be more difficult, but it will be required.

Something will come to a head at some point. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow…

4

Juddian:
The question is do you want to be a lorry driver, or is just another job, if the latter it might not work out so well.

I arrived at HGV driving as a possible career change choice having been behind a desk for a long time, then made redundant earlier in the year and having since been working for a relative driving a LWB van doing multi-drop all over central London and South West England.

Not scared of some hard work, and I do love driving. I like the thought of learning to drive a truck, having my own space and not dealing with office politics, I also have pretty good spacial awareness and think I could make a good fist of it.

Wages which aren’t much higher than min wage or wouldn’t pay much better than stacking shelves in Tesco, even after shelling out £3k on training, frankly scare the ■■■■ out of me though. As do crazy hours and little men on a power trip in warehouses/ depos.

There’s a lot of HGV training outfits who are seemingly pushing it as a great career choice - when you Google search ‘HGV driver shortage UK’ - it’s mostly those training companies and recruiters who have their own blogs which appear at the top of the list all trying to push it as a good career choice. Quite hard to cut through the ■■■■■■■■ and actually get to the truth.

5

This is the truth. In some areas there is a high demand for drivers whereas in other areas there’s next to nothing doing.

Another truth: folks who make the effort to get work (get out and knock on doors and insist on seeing the right person) will often succeed - and quickly. Those who send CV’s by email are often (but not always) wasting their time.

Another truth: folks who go knocking on doors who present themselves in a clean and tidy manner stand a much better chance than those who look as though they’ve just rolled out of bed. Be keen and willing to learn.

And there you go: the truth from a training provider!

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

6

In times gone by many people were attracted to HGV driving because of the idea of freedom away from the type of monitoring and structured day they’d get in a factory, they also had the opportunity to travel far away locations, Middle East, North Africa, Russia or just the Rest of Europe, there were also the chances to earn a decent wage, for these reasons it attracted an independent sort of person and to avoid the mundane option of other jobs they’d put up with long hours and days, weeks, even months away.

Things have changed, but the haulage industry hasn’t, it expects to monitor drivers more closely than most factory workers, but not give them the same terms and conditions as a factory worker, it hasn’t reduced the hours and raised the pay to match other jobs where you’d get home every night and get a living wage.

However there are still jobs out there that are a cut above, where you will get treated with respect, but you have to get out and find them and when you get them don’t mess them up.

7

Peter Smythe:
This is the truth. In some areas there is a high demand for drivers whereas in other areas there’s next to nothing doing.

Another truth: folks who make the effort to get work (get out and knock on doors and insist on seeing the right person) will often succeed - and quickly. Those who send CV’s by email are often (but not always) wasting their time.

Another truth: folks who go knocking on doors who present themselves in a clean and tidy manner stand a much better chance than those who look as though they’ve just rolled out of bed. Be keen and willing to learn.

And there you go: the truth from a training provider!

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

I don’t doubt the existence of jobs, or your advice about knocking on doors etc; my post was more focusing on the quality/pay/conditions of what jobs are out there (particularly for newly qualifieds) vs. the relatively high cost of training and lack of employer support thereon. The consensus seems to be there are some good jobs, but they are hard to find. As a potential new entrant into the industry I wish the employment picture was slightly more positive. If ever there was an industry crying out for collective bargaining and unionisation, HGV driving would seem to be it.

8

Truckface:

Peter Smythe:

I don’t doubt the existence of jobs, or your advice about knocking on doors etc; my post was more focusing on the quality/pay/conditions of what jobs are out there (particularly for newly qualifieds) vs. the relatively high cost of training and lack of employer support thereon. The consensus seems to be there are some good jobs, but they are hard to find. As a potential new entrant into the industry I wish the employment picture was slightly more positive. If ever there was an industry crying out for collective bargaining and unionisation, HGV driving would seem to be it.

Parts of the industry are unionised, and it’s no shock to discover they usually have the best terms and conditions.
Sadly whole swathes of the population have been brainwashed into believing unions are only there to destroy the country from within, hundreds of thousands of working class people convinced that belonging to a union and gaining better terms is the work of satan.

I’m no raving lefty and anyone who is getting better terms and conditions should give back, by offering decent value for money to their employer, going that extra mile, looking after the kit the vehicle the goods and especially the customer is straight common sense (without a customer no one has a job), sadly too many drivers can’t see any of this for themselves and it has helped lead to the lowering of standards all round and the consequential lower wage earning potential of people who refuse to do their bit to protect their own jobs and futures.

As an established driver its in my interests for the industry not offer too much too soon to attract staff, or it would be even more overrun with licence holders than it already is.

As a new driver it’s down to them to prove themselves worth considering by the better employers, you can make your own luck in this game up to a point, reliable accident free and no sickies, prove you are competent and can be trusted and you’ll find one day that the investment you put in gaining the right reputation pays off.

9

Truckface:

Peter Smythe:
This is the truth. In some areas there is a high demand for drivers whereas in other areas there’s next to nothing doing.

Another truth: folks who make the effort to get work (get out and knock on doors and insist on seeing the right person) will often succeed - and quickly. Those who send CV’s by email are often (but not always) wasting their time.

Another truth: folks who go knocking on doors who present themselves in a clean and tidy manner stand a much better chance than those who look as though they’ve just rolled out of bed. Be keen and willing to learn.

And there you go: the truth from a training provider!

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

I don’t doubt the existence of jobs, or your advice about knocking on doors etc; my post was more focusing on the quality/pay/conditions of what jobs are out there (particularly for newly qualifieds) vs. the relatively high cost of training and lack of employer support thereon. The consensus seems to be there are some good jobs, but they are hard to find. As a potential new entrant into the industry I wish the employment picture was slightly more positive. If ever there was an industry crying out for collective bargaining and unionisation, HGV driving would seem to be it.

I dont get this high cost of training. 3k for a job that you should easily earn 30k within a couple of years. Go to university, get 30k min of debt and half of them are on average wages for years, ie under 30k.

Of course every job is different and getting a good job as a new pass is definitely not easy and wages are area dependent. As I’ve said many times before, (for contenxt I retired a few months ago), I have taken on under 25 year olds on Euro work that started earning 40k, in the last full tax year could earn into the early 50k bracket. Yes it could be long hours though some weeks were around 40-45 hour mark, other times it was max hours and weird start times because if the ferry goes at 4am that is just tough. The job got nice when you were stuck on a beach in Sicily getting paid min 12 hours for 5 days and sending the desk bound boss pics of a cool beer at the beach cafe.

You wont see those jobs advertised though, so get to know people, ask around and look in the mirror and ask yourself are you the kind of person you want to employ and if the answer is no, what are you going to do to change things

10

Albion although you are a moderator where on earth was that sort of money you have quoted earned.
and you have said for 5 days,so not salaried then, weekend for nought,or are you including night out money.

11

peggydeckboy:
Albion although you are a moderator where on earth was that sort of money you have quoted earned.
and you have said for 5 days,so not salaried then, weekend for nought,or are you including night out money.

I’m not answering for Albion, who hardly needs me to speak for her, but there are jobs out there that pay that sort of money, no not for basic salary though £38/40k isn’t as uncommon for basic as one might think, but for a couple of days overtime a month you can soon be knocking on the door of £50k and still keeping under that 48 hour average (the basic might be for less than a 5 day week to begin with)…without using the POA fiddle and without counting any subsistence, if applicable.

As Albion says, these jobs are not advertised and require a bit more input in terms of reliability competence commitment and equipment/company/customer care than is shown by so many lorry licence holders these days, these jobs are often by recommendation but you can still land them by knocking on the door and selling yourself, and that is when your work history comes into play, if you’ve proved yourself in other jobs as you’ve built your skills up the good employer is more likely to take a punt on you.

12

peggydeckboy:
Albion although you are a moderator where on earth was that sort of money you have quoted earned.
and you have said for 5 days,so not salaried then, weekend for nought,or are you including night out money.

That was at Albion’s Nice Trucking Company (I retired in June this year).

The only time I referred to 5 days was when the drivers had to wait for 5 days in Sicily. We guaranteed 12 hours every day abroad even if you didnt move. And double time on Sundays. That does include night out money. But having said that night out money was not a huge part of the wages because 50% of the time you’d be at home (mix UK and Euro) and when you were out, half of the nights were in hotels and meals paid for on expenses.