Steve
Hi all,Petecud, how true ,i was working for nobbys , ACH at aylesbury and MICHELLE WAS AT Heywood and i lived in Blackpool at the time i used to do 3 weeks then home a few days ,and i knew about HEYWOOD AND PATRICK ,i had meet them both ,so i thought, HEYWOOD or the drag to AYLESBURY GOT TO BE hEYWOOD so i did as you and got the job .
When i put my notice in with DAVID FOWLER, “ACH ,NORBERT,” HE WENT BALLISTIC he accused me of going over his head, UNDEMINDING HIM, it turned out really bad for MICHELLE as he said that she! had undermined him ,and she was called to a meeting at AYLESBURY TO EXPLAIN.over little old me who FOWLER DID NOT LIKE ANYWAY.
so i never got THE A FRAME left ■■■■■■.however i did better, i started with W.H.BOWKER 1 week later.AND GOT A STRAIGHT DRAW BAR LEFT ■■■■■■.ANDnever looked back…
I remember around 86ish nobbys had a depot outside Calais on the old road to St Omar . outside their used tobe a shell garage it was popular and busy i was going to italy on my return I need fuel and was chasing the boat and this would be my stop.what a mistake nobby had bought it for his trucks to fuel up all shell signs had gone and replaced with the nd livery. however I managed to find someone who spoke good english explained what had happened and they helped just this once they told me I also wasn’t the only one this happened to.after this they bought up all they could and clearly did it right even though he is French lol
Agree with all Pete said about ND , that photo Neversweat put up of 1542VA37 was one of the first Managers we had at Pacay Meslay (Tours) it was a transition period for Tpts Laurent and the Laurent logo was dropped from all the 37 registered trailers about 2 years later when the present style of logo was introduced. Edit to add : intresting to see the cistern in Neversweats photo , I always thought all the N registered UK managers ended DRO but obviously wrong !
I had this FL10 working for OTA (Organisation de Transports Agricole) doing traction from Pompey dock, run by the delectable Mme. Marie.
OTA was swallowed up by Dingledangle.
Dingledangle had a traction partner in Pompey, Free Flag Traction Services.
Flea Bag and OTA UK offices were merged and Marie stayed on (thank god!).
I believe this happened BEFORE Sheddick became park of the ND empire. Todd will have names and dates should he read this.
Gradually the Flea Bag tractors (IVECO 38’s etc) were replaced with the G240 thingies (complete with chaise longue) in full ND livery.
The operation is still in full swing today, Marie still there and just as delectable as only sophisticated french women are…even if she can swear as good as you can when annoyed!
Gazzer
I think Free Flag at Eastleigh was bought by ND , Le Harve which was a ND franchise at the time ,Wether it is still a franchise now or not I dont know, when I worked for Tpts Laurent at Tours that was a franchise for 3 years before Norbert bought the company and depots at Tours and Colmar.
Many moons ago we delivered a load of new N.D G340Ti units to a depot somewhere near Fareham.
kerbut: Flea Bag was a Pompey company. Names escape me but Todd will know who. The son of Flea Bag became UK sales director or simliar for ND. It was OTA in Eastleigh run by Marie. She then transferred to Fareham when ND assumed direction with the amalgamation.
neversweat1: There’s your answer, Fareham, down Newgate Lane.
I have sadly lost many photos from the 80s and early 90s. I used to drive for the same company that Robert did often doing traction for Dentressangle .
I was once stuck in the yard at St. Valier and an elderly man in dirty overalls came over for a chat about my C-series ERF. My French isn’t that good and his English wasn’t too good but we spent a few hours chatting. At the end of the conversation he said his name was George and that he was Norbert father! Also later met Norberts mother who the younger staff called the dragon!
I later went on to do traction for their Calais depot and got to know the office staff and many of their drivers very well.
Evening all,
Spent ages today trying to glaze this Greenhouse that I have built for my good lady wife…by heck, 4mm glass is very heavy, when you are balanced at the top of a non too stable set of scaffolding!!! Reminds me of trying to sheet a double stack of chicken pens in a high wind…when the sheets are too well worn, and you, (me), have not folded them correctly!!!
Quite driven me to the Bollinger this evening…
But as I worked in the spring sunshine, and the grass is just ready to be cut for sileage,…(and I will not be doing it this year)…my mind turned to this thread, and just how the warm contributions of petecud, vabissman, kerbut et al endorsed Norbert`s original view, that a succesfull, and very dominant haulage company could be created… WITHOUT… treating ones staff as “Donkeys”, but treating them as real valued partners in business.
Georges, Norbert, and I had this same conversation many times, both informally, socially, and in business. It is something that I personally feel very strongly about. Something that I simply could not understand, why any employer should treat his staff, (let alone someone in charge of a valuable “asset”, and primarily his “ambassador” to his client). For some strange reason, (and probably out of place to be discussed here), I found this bizarre attitude prevalent in the UK, but not so much in Continental Europe.
Our discussions resulted from a presentation that I made to the FNTR, (French RHA), down in Lyon, around `75, regarding the difference, and contrast between the French, and UK Road Haulage Industries.( At that time they were truly "chalk and cheese.) As an example I used the practice of a UK operation, (Smith of Maddiston, whom I knew quite well), the Transport Development Group, and a typical French haulier, and Company Grouping, handling similar traffic volumes.
Most of the attendees seemed quite astounded that such tonnage, and diverse cargo, could be moved by so few people, and such low number of vehicles, and to the French audience, without complaint from the workforce! This “model”, became a bone that was picked clean on many occasions in our conversations, as did the total unpreparedness of the UK industry for the eventual Integrated Market.
That Norbert looked around the problems, and saw opportunities in business does not surprise me at all. The man has a tremendous interlect, but touched with a human side.He assembled a very close, and strong team to manage the growth of the business, and also to seek out innovative ways to transport clients goods.
And as I balanced a 4mm pane, 1.7m x 600mm in the Spring wind that so blows across our fields I remembered those big volume drawbars that Norberts engineering team re-fleeted the SAVAM fleet, and created Dentressangle Volume.
I think that it was in the `80s when Phillips in Holland demanded that their carriers maximise the cargo space , without any consideration for the poor devil piloting the outfit. He was to sit in a space from 1m, to 1.3 m long. And be happy at that!.. I seem to remember Longton at Stoke on Trent slicing a MAN/Bussing underfloor 6x2 s cab down for Ron, and Rod Carmens Belgium Carpet job…was not much room in there at all…
But this wind of change blew across Europe, and of course was felt in St Vallier…
EnterJoel Soulard PDG of SEG-SAMRO Fontenay Le Comte, Bourneau, in itself a fascinating company.
If I remember rightly ,didnt Samro open a manufacturing facility near Lyon (69) for the benefit of ND ,I know at Tours all ours were F le C built.
Oh Old Age…pressed the wrong button!!!
I blame Specsavers Bi Focals…but back to SEG-SAMRO.
In Fontenay Le Comte there had been an established body building company run by the famile Guichard. In 75, this company was placed into liquidation. Joel Soulard raised capital via a Regional bank, Sodero, and Credit Mutuel De LOcean, and founded SEG, which in turn guaranteed the workforce at Guichard`s, now no longer existing, employment.
`82, the liquidation of Guichard was final, but Soulard was able to rent the works, and in negotiation with the Municipal Authority raise additional capital to guarantee employment for , (initially) 20 people! SAMRO, was created!
`84, a technological agreement with Saint Gobain, coupled with financial aid saw employment at SEG-SAMRO grow! At the same time Joel Soulard was negotiating with Rene Jeanson, and Guy Lamoth, also in Fontenay Le Comte of Jimecal, , who had considered the problems associated with seeking to couple two 8m , (minimum), bodies within an overall length of 18 metres, and still have room for the driver…let alone the engine and gearbox!!!
The solution an air/hydraulic operated cylindrical coupling, that would “close up” the straight running length to 18 metres, and a lorry to trailer gap of 300 millimetres…(and as little as 250),…but what when you turn?..The back of the turning lorry contacts a bar running the width of the trailer, which activates the coupling to move the trailer back 800mm.
This coupling was not alone in the French market, Atellier St Catherine, of Epone, (manufacturers of the “Duplex” sleeper pod fitted to so many day cab Saviems…and endured by so many poor drivers)…also produced a electronic sensored hydro/air drawbar coupling,as did Trouillet…but by mid `85 SEG-SAMRO had delivered over 1000 units, 2&3 axle all on air.
SEG-SAMROs success was that the unit cab could be a standard day cab, with a “Duplex” cab over sleeper, (again SEG-SAMRO),…and comfortable and roomy…so a better driving environment… .and Norbert purchased hundreds…and RVI financed them! And these looked, and drove as "proper " lorries at 120 cubic metres…not some of the odd ball combinations arrived at by other seekers for “grand volume”.
SAMRO also was Frances premier builder of 13.5 metre aluminium framed semi trailers, again purchased in quantity by Norbert,some had SAMROs totally independent suspended air sprung, disc braked Jimecal axle sets, rated at 10.5 tonnes each set. These ran on 17.5, 19.5, or 22.5 tyre equipment, and had fully galvanised superstructures. Designated the ERID 105 series, 13.5 metre 33 pallet capacity operated by Dentressangle.Their aluminium frames giving a 1.5 tonne advantage over the competition, and eased operation into the UK for French payloads subject to the UKs 32 ton limit.
When I think about it Norbert`s operations created many interesting pieces of equipment, Spitzer, and Sermit, locked in mortal combat to produce a larger volume in powder tanks,Magyar, and Maisonneuve, after the liquid business,and without doubt the creation by RVI of the short cab R330, (using a day cab KB24, fitted with a Duplex sleeper over a 9.8 litre running at 326 hp) was a pure “Norbert” lorry!
Groupe Dentressangle has had a great influence over many years, it is only when one thinks just how much…well the memories run on and on…But I d`ont think Norbert ran any B Trains…probably because he became helpless with mirth at my attempts to reverse one destined for Transports Graveleau, at SAMROs works…and as Joel Soulard remarked…“my friend it only has five axles”…but he never tried…but we had a good lunch!!!
Back to my Bollinger…
Cheerio for now.
I met a rep of SAMRO at an NEC gig back then (95 or so) and complimented him on his “Euroliner type” except that the cast aluminium roof supports had a habit of fracturing on a regular basis. “I’ll get onto it by the end of today”. I’m sure he did, he was that sort of bloke working for a “can do” manufacuturer.
Here are a couple of Norbert’s Macks from their US operation. Interesting to see " Operated to Jacobson Transportation" written on the side.
gazzer:
kerbut: Flea Bag was a Pompey company. Names escape me but Todd will know who. The son of Flea Bag became UK sales director or simliar for ND. It was OTA in Eastleigh run by Marie. She then transferred to Fareham when ND assumed direction with the amalgamation.neversweat1: There’s your answer, Fareham, down Newgate Lane.
Gazzer, you are right there they traded under the name Free Flag Traction Services,they were infact located at Newgate Lane Fareham on the left just behind Sparshatts. The bosses were the late Derek Hall and his wife (who,s name escapes me at the moment) indeed his son who went on to be UK sales director and his wife were also in the office.I think prior to them forming Free Flag the traction was carried out by MMD but I might be wrong.A few of the drivers there at the short time I was there were Fish, Ronnie Rankin,Kevin Burchet,Paul (Blackie,)Sreve (owner driver with Hansons),to name but a few.
deckboypeggy:
Hi all,Petecud, how true ,i was working for nobbys , ACH at aylesbury and MICHELLE WAS AT Heywood and i lived in Blackpool at the time i used to do 3 weeks then home a few days ,and i knew about HEYWOOD AND PATRICK ,i had meet them both ,so i thought, HEYWOOD or the drag to AYLESBURY GOT TO BE hEYWOOD so i did as you and got the job .When i put my notice in with DAVID FOWLER, “ACH ,NORBERT,” HE WENT BALLISTIC he accused me of going over his head, UNDEMINDING HIM, it turned out really bad for MICHELLE as he said that she! had undermined him ,and she was called to a meeting at AYLESBURY TO EXPLAIN.over little old me who FOWLER DID NOT LIKE ANYWAY.
so i never got THE A FRAME left ■■■■■■.however i did better, i started with W.H.BOWKER 1 week later.AND GOT A STRAIGHT DRAW BAR LEFT ■■■■■■.ANDnever looked back…
It all ended much better for you then, Bowkers had a very good reputation, if I remember correctly, a couple of our lads had worked for Bowkers before they came to Nobbys.
We both did similar sort of work then and used to meet up at Carisio, there were some good lads on there then, but for the life of me. I can’t recall any of their names!
David Fowler had a terrible reputation, very few ACH lads had a good word to say about him. He seemed to be anti Norbert, and seemed to resent their involvement, he even stopped Norberts wagons parking in ACH yard at one time. Once, a French Nobby driver parked there for the night and Fowler placed concrete blocks in front of the truck so he couldn’t get out in the morning, I bet Norbert heaved a sigh of relief when Fowler finally gave up.
Pete