This could be causing confusion to employers.
cchdaily.co.uk/hmrc-spat-ha … ubsistence
muckles:
Rjan:
OllieNotts:
They pay for a hotel and dinner, not sure why you feel you should have n/o money to? I thought n/o money was for sleeping in the cab ehich you said you do sometimes…but normally you don’t. I’ve never heard of a firm paying hotels dinners and n/o in topI’ve never encountered a situation where the boss argues that covering the cost of your room and food is the quid pro quo for staying away from home - even for a single night on an exceptional basis. At the very least, if you aren’t paid specifically for staying away, then your basic salary would have to be much higher than the norm, to reflect that aspect of the job.
If you’ve agreed to a take a job that you know involves being away from home, staying in hotels with expenses paid, why should you then expect an extra payment?
Because that isn’t what’s happening here. Night out money is paid at a flat rate, no questions asked, for expenses that don’t have to be accounted for. It is an expense allowance, not an expense account or a reimbursement of specific expenses.
It is a principle of the scheme that a certain level of expenses are assumed to be associated with that lifestyle, without evidence and without the money being specifically accounted for. This is not just to save the driver the trouble of accounting, but to save the employer the trouble of accounting. For guys who are away multiple times a week, every week, and don’t live like kings, they will probably receive a decent surplus above any of their actual expenses.
But to start asking questions, and asking drivers to account for their expenses, and withholding any surplus, completely revamps the agreement which you accepted, which was that none of these things would happen and that the payment would occur unconditionally.
As I say, it is also disingenuous to suggest that night out money was only ever supposed to cover specific expenses, or was supposed to be accounted for to the employer. For guys away occasionally, it covers costs. For guys away regularly, the scheme’s generosity forms a part of their benefits and remuneration. If the employer doesn’t convey that remuneration in the (tax free) night out money, then they’ll have to do it separately in basic pay or some other taxed allowance.
Rjan:
muckles:
Rjan:
OllieNotts:
They pay for a hotel and dinner, not sure why you feel you should have n/o money to? I thought n/o money was for sleeping in the cab ehich you said you do sometimes…but normally you don’t. I’ve never heard of a firm paying hotels dinners and n/o in topI’ve never encountered a situation where the boss argues that covering the cost of your room and food is the quid pro quo for staying away from home - even for a single night on an exceptional basis. At the very least, if you aren’t paid specifically for staying away, then your basic salary would have to be much higher than the norm, to reflect that aspect of the job.
If you’ve agreed to a take a job that you know involves being away from home, staying in hotels with expenses paid, why should you then expect an extra payment?
Because that isn’t what’s happening here. Night out money is paid at a flat rate, no questions asked, for expenses that don’t have to be accounted for. It is an expense allowance, not an expense account or a reimbursement of specific expenses.
It is a principle of the scheme that a certain level of expenses are assumed to be associated with that lifestyle, without evidence and without the money being specifically accounted for. This is not just to save the driver the trouble of accounting, but to save the employer the trouble of accounting. For guys who are away multiple times a week, every week, and don’t live like kings, they will probably receive a decent surplus above any of their actual expenses.
But to start asking questions, and asking drivers to account for their expenses, and withholding any surplus, completely revamps the agreement which you accepted, which was that none of these things would happen and that the payment would occur unconditionally.
As I say, it is also disingenuous to suggest that night out money was only ever supposed to cover specific expenses, or was supposed to be accounted for to the employer. For guys away occasionally, it covers costs. For guys away regularly, the scheme’s generosity forms a part of their benefits and remuneration. If the employer doesn’t convey that remuneration in the (tax free) night out money, then they’ll have to do it separately in basic pay or some other taxed allowance.
Night out money is not supposed to be a perk to get a tax free increase in wages, even though it does add to many trampers weekly take home, it’s an agreement to between the haulage industry and HMRC to cover expenses of being away from home.
Sleeper cabs
Drivers now regularly use sleeper cabs in preference to alternative accommodation when away from home. However, they still receive a general overnight subsistence payment. This payment is intended to cover the cost of
an evening meal and breakfast
washing facilities
upkeep of bedding in the cab.
The full night out money paid to drivers not staying in the cab is supposed to cover the cost of accommodation; this cost is already covered by the OP’s company.
Overnight accommodation
As a general guideline, the employer must have evidence available to show that the employee
spent the night away from home and any permanent workplace, and
the amount paid was reasonable reimbursement of the costs of accommodation and subsistence resulting from the business journey.
The OP’s company also cover the OP’s meal costs, at £11 for an evening meal, £6 for breakfast and £5 for other food, but they can only claim this back if they have receipts. From what I have been reading generally you can only claim £5 a day for un-receipted expenses when you away for a night on business and everywhere I’ve worked and been away on business I’ve had to produce receipts and fill out an expenses form.
I think the company might have mistakenly believed that they could just give a tax free allowance their staff, of which only the OP is an HGV driver. Or they have been told they no longer are able to because the industry they are working in no longer has an agreement with HMRC, hence the April date for this to begin.
The OP and his colleagues will have to talk to their boss about getting an extra payment to cover what they’ve lost due to having to account for their expenses.
muckles:
Night out money is not supposed to be a perk to get a tax free increase in wages, even though it does add to many trampers weekly take home, it’s an agreement to between the haulage industry and HMRC to cover expenses of being away from home.
If the tax position changes, then the employee has to bear the tax which applies to him. But I’m afraid there is no point pretending that it does not form part of the wages for those who do nights out frequently. Why on Earth would you sleep in a cab all your life if you weren’t being paid for it (and if you still have to pay rent at home)?
Sleeper cabs
Drivers now regularly use sleeper cabs in preference to alternative accommodation when away from home. However, they still receive a general overnight subsistence payment. This payment is intended to cover the cost of
an evening meal and breakfast
washing facilities
upkeep of bedding in the cab.The full night out money paid to drivers not staying in the cab is supposed to cover the cost of accommodation; this cost is already covered by the OP’s company.
Only 25% of the allowance (i.e. about £8.50) is attributable to accommodation. That’s why you still get 75% of it when you sleep in the cab!
Overnight accommodation
As a general guideline, the employer must have evidence available to show that the employee
spent the night away from home and any permanent workplace, and
the amount paid was reasonable reimbursement of the costs of accommodation and subsistence resulting from the business journey.The OP’s company also cover the OP’s meal costs, at £11 for an evening meal, £6 for breakfast and £5 for other food, but they can only claim this back if they have receipts. From what I have been reading generally you can only claim £5 a day for un-receipted expenses when you away for a night on business and everywhere I’ve worked and been away on business I’ve had to produce receipts and fill out an expenses form.
I think the company might have mistakenly believed that they could just give a tax free allowance their staff, of which only the OP is an HGV driver. Or they have been told they no longer are able to because the industry they are working in no longer has an agreement with HMRC, hence the April date for this to begin.
The OP and his colleagues will have to talk to their boss about getting an extra payment to cover what they’ve lost due to having to account for their expenses.
They don’t have to. The employer will still have to pay the night out money, but now deduct tax from it as if it were ordinary earnings, for the portion which cannot be proved with receipts.
Also for the record, there are three separate allowances I’m aware of:
EIM66110 - Overnight subsistence allowance (£34.90, 75% allowed for sleeper cabs)
EIM02710 - Incidental non-business overnight expenses (£5 limit)
EIM66140 - Midday meal allowance (£2 limit)
I’m not an expert on this issue but all the above appear to apply (and each deals with separate kinds of expense).
Rjan:
muckles:
Night out money is not supposed to be a perk to get a tax free increase in wages, even though it does add to many trampers weekly take home, it’s an agreement to between the haulage industry and HMRC to cover expenses of being away from home.If the tax position changes, then the employee has to bear the tax which applies to him. But I’m afraid there is no point pretending that it does not form part of the wages for those who do nights out frequently. Why on Earth would you sleep in a cab all your life if you weren’t being paid for it (and if you still have to pay rent at home)?
If drivers aren’t spending the allowance and able to enhance their wages that’s their good luck, but also one of the things that has lead to lower basic rate as drivers are looking at night out money as a top up of wages instead of what they were really intended for. but it isn’t the way HMRC intended to be used , but to cover expenses from being away.
As for why drivers do nights out, probably for the same reasons as other spend time away, they have jobs that require they work away, Local work doesn’t pay enough or doesn’t exist. Some travel a distance to work for hauliers paying higher rates, but this wouldn’t be economical for a daily commute.
I’ve been staying in lodgings in Sussex when working down there and a lot of other workers, especially those in the construction trade stay there, most of them come from the North of England and come down for the week, but it’s worth their or theirs companies to get work in the South East and put their employees up in digs. They don’t get extra night out money for this, it’s part of the jobs they took especially if they are specialists or because that was what was available or because it paid better than local building work.
Sleeper cabs
Drivers now regularly use sleeper cabs in preference to alternative accommodation when away from home. However, they still receive a general overnight subsistence payment. This payment is intended to cover the cost of
an evening meal and breakfast
washing facilities
upkeep of bedding in the cab.The full night out money paid to drivers not staying in the cab is supposed to cover the cost of accommodation; this cost is already covered by the OP’s company.
Only 25% of the allowance (i.e. about £8.50) is attributable to accommodation. That’s why you still get 75% of it when you sleep in the cab!
I’ll also admit no expertise except the same as you trawling the internet, but I’ve seen nothing that says only 25% of the allowance is to cover the payment of accommodation and as you say that would only be about £8.50 it seems unrealistic. The 75% might come from the days where drivers slept in digs, sharing a room with several other drivers and could get a bed for the night, a meal and a pint and still have change for a shilling. 
Overnight accommodation
As a general guideline, the employer must have evidence available to show that the employee
spent the night away from home and any permanent workplace, and
the amount paid was reasonable reimbursement of the costs of accommodation and subsistence resulting from the business journey.The OP’s company also cover the OP’s meal costs, at £11 for an evening meal, £6 for breakfast and £5 for other food, but they can only claim this back if they have receipts. From what I have been reading generally you can only claim £5 a day for un-receipted expenses when you away for a night on business and everywhere I’ve worked and been away on business I’ve had to produce receipts and fill out an expenses form.
I think the company might have mistakenly believed that they could just give a tax free allowance their staff, of which only the OP is an HGV driver. Or they have been told they no longer are able to because the industry they are working in no longer has an agreement with HMRC, hence the April date for this to begin.
The OP and his colleagues will have to talk to their boss about getting an extra payment to cover what they’ve lost due to having to account for their expenses.
They don’t have to. The employer will still have to pay the night out money, but now deduct tax from it as if it were ordinary earnings, for the portion which cannot be proved with receipts.
Also for the record, there are three separate allowances I’m aware of:
EIM66110 - Overnight subsistence allowance (£34.90, 75% allowed for sleeper cabs)
EIM02710 - Incidental non-business overnight expenses (£5 limit)
EIM66140 - Midday meal allowance (£2 limit)I’m not an expert on this issue but all the above appear to apply (and each deals with separate kinds of expense).
Whether they continue to pay might be down to the contract, if they pay to cover out of pocket expenses and they’re still willing to do this, but you have to supply receipts then I don’t see why they have to £22 a night taxed. If they pay £22 a night a bonus for being away that might change things.
As for the £7 a day tax free, maybe the OP can claim this as un-recipted and claim the rest £15 on receipts, once you’ve paid from an evening meal, breakfast and some in the middle of the day I reckon you’ll not have change from £15.
£22 a night is a joke, I got £17 25 years ago and it was tax free.
You should get the choice to use a hotel if one is available no questions, no wonder young people are not interested in transport.
muckles:
If drivers aren’t spending the allowance and able to enhance their wages that’s their good luck, but also one of the things that has lead to lower basic rate as drivers are looking at night out money as a top up of wages instead of what they were really intended for. but it isn’t the way HMRC intended to be used , but to cover expenses from being away.
For the majority, it does cover the expenses of the lifestyle. I’ll be damned if I can’t count hundreds spent just on the basics like bags, bedding, gas kettles, and so forth. Then you get into the realm of guys who fit out their cabs with TVs and other mod-cons, mobile broadband, the list goes on, all of which represent the additional expenses of that lifestyle.
As for why drivers do nights out, probably for the same reasons as other spend time away, they have jobs that require they work away, Local work doesn’t pay enough or doesn’t exist. Some travel a distance to work for hauliers paying higher rates, but this wouldn’t be economical for a daily commute.
But you acknowledge those jobs pay more. If people have any choice about their job, then nobody stays away without financial compensation, unless their homes or families mean nothing.
Only 25% of the allowance (i.e. about £8.50) is attributable to accommodation. That’s why you still get 75% of it when you sleep in the cab!
I’ll also admit no expertise except the same as you trawling the internet, but I’ve seen nothing that says only 25% of the allowance is to cover the payment of accommodation and as you say that would only be about £8.50 it seems unrealistic. The 75% might come from the days where drivers slept in digs, sharing a room with several other drivers and could get a bed for the night, a meal and a pint and still have change for a shilling.
You misunderstand. You get 100% if you sleep away from the cab (whether in a hotel, a dig, a shared room, or whatever), 75% if you sleep actually inside it. So logically, only 8.50 of the allowance is attributable to the extra cost of hotel accommodation versus in-cab sleeping.
I work away from home and my hourly pay is £7.08, and quite content with that. And I do not get night out money 
damoq:
I would say someone is pulling your leg. Your £22 night money is yours for sleeping in the cab.
Maybe they are on about getting a receipt for parking.
I don’t do nights out with my mob, but I’ve heard the tampers say that they only get parking money back. Company won’t pay for a meal or shower voucher if you pay for it with your parking. They have to hand in receipts for parking.
Night out money is NOT for sleeping in the tin can.
It is how ever an allowance given to assist in accommodation and out of pocket expenses (food etc) nothing says you have to sleep In the vehicle.
Your boss is completely wrong, he has no right to ask for proof that you spent a penny. Night out money is a tax free allowance that you have the right to, you have the right to sit in your cab all night, not spend a cent and pocket the money. Tell him you will take him to the court of human rights.
You are so lucky in the UK, we don’t get a cent here. The first company I worked for here, paid low wages but they did give us $30.00 if we spent the night away.
He’s being asked for a recept for his expenses not for his nights out. As he us given the money upfront as a float
Rjan:
muckles:
If drivers aren’t spending the allowance and able to enhance their wages that’s their good luck, but also one of the things that has lead to lower basic rate as drivers are looking at night out money as a top up of wages instead of what they were really intended for. but it isn’t the way HMRC intended to be used , but to cover expenses from being away.For the majority, it does cover the expenses of the lifestyle. I’ll be damned if I can’t count hundreds spent just on the basics like bags, bedding, gas kettles, and so forth. Then you get into the realm of guys who fit out their cabs with TVs and other mod-cons, mobile broadband, the list goes on, all of which represent the additional expenses of that lifestyle.
What you decide to buy with your tax free allowance is up to you, but HMRC see it as a payment for expenses incurred from spending nights away from home while working.
Rjan:
muckles:
As for why drivers do nights out, probably for the same reasons as other spend time away, they have jobs that require they work away, Local work doesn’t pay enough or doesn’t exist. Some travel a distance to work for hauliers paying higher rates, but this wouldn’t be economical for a daily commute.But you acknowledge those jobs pay more. If people have any choice about their job, then nobody stays away without financial compensation, unless their homes or families mean nothing.
Yes didn’t say I didn’t, but the HMRC doesn’t see night out money as financial compensation merely for being away from home, even if some drivers treat it as such.
It’s an agreement between the industry and HMRC to cover expenses that in many other industries they’d expect to be receipted and done on an expenses claim.
Rjan:
muckles:
Rjan:
Only 25% of the allowance (i.e. about £8.50) is attributable to accommodation. That’s why you still get 75% of it when you sleep in the cab!I’ll also admit no expertise except the same as you trawling the internet, but I’ve seen nothing that says only 25% of the allowance is to cover the payment of accommodation and as you say that would only be about £8.50 it seems unrealistic. The 75% might come from the days where drivers slept in digs, sharing a room with several other drivers and could get a bed for the night, a meal and a pint and still have change for a shilling.
You misunderstand. You get 100% if you sleep away from the cab (whether in a hotel, a dig, a shared room, or whatever), 75% if you sleep actually inside it. So logically, only 8.50 of the allowance is attributable to the extra cost of hotel accommodation versus in-cab sleeping.
I’ve read nothing on from the HMRC that says only 25% of the full night out money is to cover accommodation, however if you find something that confirms that then I’ll admit I’m wrong.
But if we follow your logic as a person staying in hotels won’t need bedding or to pay for washing facilities, then they save on that, which according to you costs hundreds, so the percentage required for accommodation wouldn’t be 25%.
What is your understanding of why night out money is paid?
raymundo:
I work away from home and my hourly pay is £7.08, and quite content with that. And I do not get night out money
Good grief!
muckles:
Rjan:
muckles:
If drivers aren’t spending the allowance and able to enhance their wages that’s their good luck, but also one of the things that has lead to lower basic rate as drivers are looking at night out money as a top up of wages instead of what they were really intended for. but it isn’t the way HMRC intended to be used , but to cover expenses from being away.For the majority, it does cover the expenses of the lifestyle. I’ll be damned if I can’t count hundreds spent just on the basics like bags, bedding, gas kettles, and so forth. Then you get into the realm of guys who fit out their cabs with TVs and other mod-cons, mobile broadband, the list goes on, all of which represent the additional expenses of that lifestyle.
What you decide to buy with your tax free allowance is up to you, but HMRC see it as a payment for expenses incurred from spending nights away from home while working.
And all those things are expenses - but they don’t bear much relationship to the amount of the allowance, once the allowance is applied per night, per individual. Nobody buys a new sleeping bag each night, and most buy it before a specific night out is foreseen.
And if you make do with a cheese sandwich and a second-hand novel, then the surplus is yours to keep. There’s no point arguing that HMRC don’t expect frugal drivers to keep the surplus - HMRC don’t even expect drivers to count which expenses are included, whether they have any surplus, or the magnitude of the balance. If you do count and have a surplus, then bully for you - HMRC cannot be so stupid as to imagine that a flat-rate allowance would never produce a surplus for anyone, anywhere. The scheme is designed to do some justice to the problem of night out expenses, without the burden of accounting.
This appears to be the mistake the OP’s employer has made. Taking a flat-rate, unaccounted allowance, and then asking that it be accounted for and being shocked to find that, under certain circumstances, there is a surplus.
Rjan:
muckles:
As for why drivers do nights out, probably for the same reasons as other spend time away, they have jobs that require they work away, Local work doesn’t pay enough or doesn’t exist. Some travel a distance to work for hauliers paying higher rates, but this wouldn’t be economical for a daily commute.But you acknowledge those jobs pay more. If people have any choice about their job, then nobody stays away without financial compensation, unless their homes or families mean nothing.
Yes didn’t say I didn’t, but the HMRC doesn’t see night out money as financial compensation merely for being away from home, even if some drivers treat it as such.
It’s an agreement between the industry and HMRC to cover expenses that in many other industries they’d expect to be receipted and done on an expenses claim.
Indeed, but those who have put their finger in the wind and believe that there is a surplus for themselves, it is acting as financial compensation, and that is consistent with the outcomes that were designed into the scheme. The only way to avoid it, would be to accurately account, which is a worse evil than the surpluses enjoyed by some (and the deficits suffered by others). It is illogical to argue that the HMRC scheme was designed to have neither surpluses and deficits, nor accounting!
Rjan:
muckles:
Rjan:
Only 25% of the allowance (i.e. about £8.50) is attributable to accommodation. That’s why you still get 75% of it when you sleep in the cab!I’ll also admit no expertise except the same as you trawling the internet, but I’ve seen nothing that says only 25% of the allowance is to cover the payment of accommodation and as you say that would only be about £8.50 it seems unrealistic. The 75% might come from the days where drivers slept in digs, sharing a room with several other drivers and could get a bed for the night, a meal and a pint and still have change for a shilling.
You misunderstand. You get 100% if you sleep away from the cab (whether in a hotel, a dig, a shared room, or whatever), 75% if you sleep actually inside it. So logically, only 8.50 of the allowance is attributable to the extra cost of hotel accommodation versus in-cab sleeping.
I’ve read nothing on from the HMRC that says only 25% of the full night out money is to cover accommodation, however if you find something that confirms that then I’ll admit I’m wrong.
But if we follow your logic as a person staying in hotels won’t need bedding or to pay for washing facilities, then they save on that, which according to you costs hundreds, so the percentage required for accommodation wouldn’t be 25%.
I know this. But the 75% figure reflects the guidance.
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66130
You will see there is a figure for nights away, and you will see the figure is reduced to 75% of the figure (i.e. 25% less) for in-cab sleeping. The only logical inference is that sleeping in the cab has its own costs (like bedding or means of entertainment like a portable TV) which are not applicable to a hotel stay.
What is your understanding of why night out money is paid?
Night out money is paid by employers for two reasons: to defray expenses, and to compensate the non-financial hardship. The tax-relief scheme on that night out money, is run for the former reason only, but unavoidably promotes the latter cause in some cases. That is what the scheme is.
Travel Subsistence and Overnight Expenses for Lorry Drivers
There are special allowances for lorry drivers who regularly travel and are away overnight.
Confused over exactly what you can claim for travel expenses?
Travel subsistence is often a very grey area within HMRCs rules and regulations so it is important to understand exactly what you can reclaim without incurring a tax penalty. These should be carried out in the same manner as any other expense claim which means this only applies to costs which are wholly and inclusively in the interest of the business which can be backed up by physical evidence.
Approved amount for subsistence paid to lorry drivers
There is a tax free allowance on claiming subsistence for the night. If there is a sleeper cab present your maximum claim is lower as the accommodation costs will be proportionately lower, which means the tax free allowance is also lower as a result. If the employer knows that the driver uses the sleeper cab they should pay (free of tax) only what represents a reasonable reimbursement of:
•Evening meal and breakfast
•Washing facilities
•Upkeep of bedding in the cab
The tax free amount is calculated on a yearly basis in January, the maximum amount of tax free expenses a driver can claim is shown below:
Year ended Payment per night (Sleeper Cab Rate)
31 December 2013 and onwards £34.90 (£26.20)
31 December 2012 £33.85 (£25.40)
31 December 2011 £32.20 (£24.15)
Although this is the maximum tax free allowance for drivers – receipts must still be produced for any expenses regardless of how small
Any claims above the allowable amount will need to have the excess amount ran through PAYE as these are subject to tax, however there may be some exceptions.
Where greater sums are paid
For any claims in excess of the allowance you must have relevant documentation for every expense incurred – as you can potentially claim the entire expense if it was entirely for the purpose of carrying out business activity, it may just be that the only accommodation available was more expensive than expected. This could be considered as a reasonable reimbursement despite the costs exceeding the tax free allowance; providing all the receipts are present and this is claimed via an expense form.
However, if you choose to stay at a 5 star hotel when there was a cheaper option available HMRC may disallow any claims in excess of the allowable amount; as this was a personal choice which was not in the interest of the business – which would then become a taxable benefit
Overseas travel
The amounts shown in the table above relate to the allowance for nights away from home based in the UK. They may not be appropriate for overnight subsistence on continental journals where costs may vary between countries. If your costs are proportionately higher in some countries you may be able to agree a higher rate with HMRC providing you have fully documented evidence of the usual reasonable costs.
These additional costs may be due to currency conversion, multiple showers in hotter climates, bottled water and secure parking (there should be a risk assessment to protect the vehicle, load and the driver).
Any new rates must be confirmed by HMRC, you should not allow a higher rate without official approval.
Incidental overnight expenses
The definition: These are non-business expenses incurred while travelling overnight on business, providing that they are intended for the well-being and personal nature of the employee. Some examples are shown below
•Buying newspapers (although this is not usually an allowable expense it can be a connection to home life for an employee, especially if they are working overseas)
•Paying for laundry
•Phoning home
Even so these claims must have documentation to back them and must be justifiable
How much you can claim:
On expenses up to £5 per night (£10 for travel outside of the UK)
•Providing your expenses are less than £5 per night you can claim for this expenses without incurring a tax penalty. You do not need to report this on a P11 and are not required to pay Tax and NI on this. This claim is in addition to the tax free allowance shown in the table above.
On expenses over £5 per night (£10 for travel outside of the UK)
•The initial £5 (or £10) will still remain tax free, however any amount paid out above this threshold will need to be added to your gross earnings as this is subject to PAYE. You are also expected to report this on a P11 benefits form.
Sources: rha.uk.net
nightline:
Travel Subsistence and Overnight Expenses for Lorry Drivers[…]
Although this is the maximum tax free allowance for drivers – receipts must still be produced for any expenses regardless of how small
Any claims above the allowable amount will need to have the excess amount ran through PAYE as these are subject to tax, however there may be some exceptions.
Where greater sums are paid
For any claims in excess of the allowance you must have relevant documentation for every expense incurred – as you can potentially claim the entire expense if it was entirely for the purpose of carrying out business activity, it may just be that the only accommodation available was more expensive than expected. This could be considered as a reasonable reimbursement despite the costs exceeding the tax free allowance; providing all the receipts are present and this is claimed via an expense form. […]
I don’t know whether you wrote the above or whether you’ve quoted an article, but it reflects muddled thinking.
The flat-rate allowance reflects the amount for which you don’t need receipts or any detailed expense records. If you kept all the receipts and records, the scheme would be pointless, because you’re entitled to claim business expenses anyway.
The only records required for the flat-rate scheme are those which show that a night away has in fact occurred. The employer in practice needs only be satisfied that it reasonably reflects the level of expense which a driver could incur.
Receipted business expenses above the limit can be claimed in the normal way - they aren’t limited to the flat-rate allowance.
I would only say that they probably don’t want you taking advantage of both methods at once. For example, an employer claiming receipted expenses for all the obvious elements of night out expenses, or who provides all facilities themselves, can’t then pay the flat-rate allowance to drivers on top.
Rjan:
I would only say that they probably don’t want you taking advantage of both methods at once. For example, an employer claiming receipted expenses for all the obvious elements of night out expenses, or who provides all facilities themselves, can’t then pay the flat-rate allowance to drivers on top.
So are you saying that because the OP’s company pays for his hotel accommodation and will cover the cost of meals, provided the OP hands in receipts, that OP can’t claim night out allowance?
muckles:
Rjan:
I would only say that they probably don’t want you taking advantage of both methods at once. For example, an employer claiming receipted expenses for all the obvious elements of night out expenses, or who provides all facilities themselves, can’t then pay the flat-rate allowance to drivers on top.So are you saying that because the OP’s company pays for his hotel accommodation and will cover the cost of meals, provided the OP hands in receipts, that OP can’t claim night out allowance?
The part of my post you quote, and the following, is purely my opinion, but I would say the scheme is not designed so that one can claim tax relief on £34 more than whatever can be accounted for or proven with receipts. The scheme is designed so that neither employers nor drivers need to administer an expense system in the first place.
Where accommodation and meals are provided for separately, and if your workforce in general are doing several nights out every week (so it’s not just a case of a minority in special circumstances which the company accountant can’t be expected to know about), that might be enough to cast doubt that the full night out money is only designed to meet expenses, and may have to be treated as earnings instead.
By keeping the account of the cost accommodation and meals which you weren’t required to do, you might also be giving the taxman the rope to hang you with. Because if the money is definitely not being spent on accommodation or meals (not even theoretically, or at the driver’s discretion), then what expenses can your drivers be spendimg £120 a week on?
If you go even further and claim every possible expense on receipts (including bedding, cab fitments, toothbrushes, etc.), then I think you’d seal your fate and the taxman will say you’re not entitled to the relief on the night out money.
Rjan:
muckles:
Rjan:
I would only say that they probably don’t want you taking advantage of both methods at once. For example, an employer claiming receipted expenses for all the obvious elements of night out expenses, or who provides all facilities themselves, can’t then pay the flat-rate allowance to drivers on top.So are you saying that because the OP’s company pays for his hotel accommodation and will cover the cost of meals, provided the OP hands in receipts, that OP can’t claim night out allowance?
The part of my post you quote, and the following, is purely my opinion, but I would say the scheme is not designed so that one can claim tax relief on £34 more than whatever can be accounted for or proven with receipts. The scheme is designed so that neither employers nor drivers need to administer an expense system in the first place.
Where accommodation and meals are provided for separately, and if your workforce in general are doing several nights out every week (so it’s not just a case of a minority in special circumstances which the company accountant can’t be expected to know about), that might be enough to cast doubt that the full night out money is only designed to meet expenses, and may have to be treated as earnings instead.
By keeping the account of the cost accommodation and meals which you weren’t required to do, you might also be giving the taxman the rope to hang you with. Because if the money is definitely not being spent on accommodation or meals (not even theoretically, or at the driver’s discretion), then what expenses can your drivers be spendimg £120 a week on?
If you go even further and claim every possible expense on receipts (including bedding, cab fitments, toothbrushes, etc.), then I think you’d seal your fate and the taxman will say you’re not entitled to the relief on the night out money.
So was that yes or no?
mike68:
£22 a night is a joke, I got £17 25 years ago and it was tax free.You should get the choice to use a hotel if one is available no questions, no wonder young people are not interested in transport.
And on another planet 