mr lordi:
.
we are in hotels unless I’m in the wagon, they break down our payment as follows, £11 meal allowance, £7 breakfast and £5 miscellaneous expenses, they have asked for receipts for the meal and breakfast allowance. We get paid the week before we go away into our wages, no cash, all accommodation is paid in advance by them. I’m not sure whether they are just doing this to claim back vat on our receipts or if they have been instructed by hmrc, either way I don’t see why I should be forced to go out eating and drinking, something I don’t normally do.
That dont sound like classic night out money, as in the transport norm. That’s sounds more like claiming back expenses. That’s probably were things are going wrong tax man wants a record of expemses.
Me and Muckles worked for the company many years ago, and us 2 along with 2 others were tramping 4 -5 nights most weeks(the customer requirements of the contract we were doing), most of the other 20 or so drivers, on the general side, or different contracts, were only doing 1-2-3 max nights out a week. At one point, the tax man asked the boss for proof we were doing these nights away, when the majority of the fleet weren’t. Running sheets and work schedules answered the tax man.
Harry Monk:
You don’t need to produce receipts to be paid overnight subsistence up to £26.18 per night. As far as I’m aware, there are no plans to change this.
As an aside, I once worked for an exhibition company which paid a £50 per diem, but this was dependent on producing receipts. We used to go to a McDonalds every Friday and get £250’s worth of receipts out of the bins (this was in the days when they did give till receipts) and submit them. One day I got a call from the company accountant who said “I’ve noticed that you don’t seem to eat anything all week and then eat a couple of hundred hamburgers every Friday”.
My current firm used to pay me £25 a night from petty cash fortnightly in arrears. I used to have a small duplicate book, and I’d write dates that I’d done nights away the previous 2 weeks, usually 3 a week, some times 4.
After about 12 months, they said I would have to have the money paid into my wages monthly, in arrears, (something to do with the tax man)
Now I just email my boss details of the previous months nights out 2 weeks before payday and he gets it paid into my wages.
I have found out that it’s possible to claim tax back that I’ve paid on this night out money, which I’ll look into doing when this financial year is out, only stumbling block is, the payroll dept sometimes put it down as overtime on my wage slip, and others as n/out allowance.
Rob9b:
My current firm used to pay me £25 a night from petty cash fortnightly in arrears. I used to have a small duplicate book, and I’d write dates that I’d done nights away the previous 2 weeks, usually 3 a week, some times 4.
After about 12 months, they said I would have to have the money paid into my wages monthly, in arrears, (something to do with the tax man)
Now I just email my boss details of the previous months nights out 2 weeks before payday and he gets it paid into my wages.
I have found out that it’s possible to claim tax back that I’ve paid on this night out money, which I’ll look into doing when this financial year is out, only stumbling block is, the payroll dept sometimes put it down as overtime on my wage slip, and others as n/out allowance.
You shouldn’t be paying any tax on it if you’re only getting £25.
Rob9b:
My current firm used to pay me £25 a night from petty cash fortnightly in arrears. I used to have a small duplicate book, and I’d write dates that I’d done nights away the previous 2 weeks, usually 3 a week, some times 4.
After about 12 months, they said I would have to have the money paid into my wages monthly, in arrears, (something to do with the tax man)
Now I just email my boss details of the previous months nights out 2 weeks before payday and he gets it paid into my wages.
I have found out that it’s possible to claim tax back that I’ve paid on this night out money, which I’ll look into doing when this financial year is out, only stumbling block is, the payroll dept sometimes put it down as overtime on my wage slip, and others as n/out allowance.
Are you working for a haulage company or like the OP working for a company that runs a truck to support it’s main business?
I’m sure most haulage companies will know about night out money, but maybe a companies whose main business isn’t haulage won’t.
If so either get them to talk to HMRC about night out money, I think the official title is overnight allowance, maybe also about meal allowances etc. Might help you get your money quicker and less hassle about tax and save them some paperwork.
Rob9b:
My current firm used to pay me £25 a night from petty cash fortnightly in arrears. I used to have a small duplicate book, and I’d write dates that I’d done nights away the previous 2 weeks, usually 3 a week, some times 4.
After about 12 months, they said I would have to have the money paid into my wages monthly, in arrears, (something to do with the tax man)
Now I just email my boss details of the previous months nights out 2 weeks before payday and he gets it paid into my wages.
I have found out that it’s possible to claim tax back that I’ve paid on this night out money, which I’ll look into doing when this financial year is out, only stumbling block is, the payroll dept sometimes put it down as overtime on my wage slip, and others as n/out allowance.
Are you working for a haulage company or like the OP working for a company that runs a truck to support it’s main business?
I’m sure most haulage companies will know about night out money, but maybe a companies whose main business isn’t haulage won’t.
If so either get them to talk to HMRC about night out money, I think the official title is overnight allowance, maybe also about meal allowances etc. Might help you get your money quicker and less hassle about tax and save them some paperwork.
It’s a company that runs a truck to support business, alongside a dozen or so other vehicles, but I’m the only hgv driver and the only one that does nights out.
My last firm (haulage co) used to give us cash from petty cash tin, usually next day and we would sign a petty cash receipt.
I’m not too bothered waiting until next months pay to receive n/o money, it’s just the tax that I’m paying on it, when it’s a subsistence tax free allowance!
I think the tax form to fill out for refund is a p78 or p87, which you can also claim back for washing of company branded uniforms too.
Rob9b:
My current firm used to pay me £25 a night from petty cash fortnightly in arrears. I used to have a small duplicate book, and I’d write dates that I’d done nights away the previous 2 weeks, usually 3 a week, some times 4.
After about 12 months, they said I would have to have the money paid into my wages monthly, in arrears, (something to do with the tax man)
Now I just email my boss details of the previous months nights out 2 weeks before payday and he gets it paid into my wages.
I have found out that it’s possible to claim tax back that I’ve paid on this night out money, which I’ll look into doing when this financial year is out, only stumbling block is, the payroll dept sometimes put it down as overtime on my wage slip, and others as n/out allowance.
Are you working for a haulage company or like the OP working for a company that runs a truck to support it’s main business?
I’m sure most haulage companies will know about night out money, but maybe a companies whose main business isn’t haulage won’t.
If so either get them to talk to HMRC about night out money, I think the official title is overnight allowance, maybe also about meal allowances etc. Might help you get your money quicker and less hassle about tax and save them some paperwork.
It’s a company that runs a truck to support business, alongside a dozen or so other vehicles, but I’m the only hgv driver and the only one that does nights out.
I thought so,
Rob9b:
I’m not too bothered waiting until next months pay to receive n/o money, it’s just the tax that I’m paying on it, when it’s a subsistence tax free allowance!
I think the tax form to fill out for refund is a p78 or p87, which you can also claim back for washing of company branded uniforms too.
This is why your company needs to ask HMRC about overnight allowance payments for drivers. Or it might be quicker if you spoke to them and then gave the info to your company.
Concretejim:
Its quite simple realy and requires no fiddling.
Asda weekly shop receipt, job done. Tell him you like food and drink.
Im sure your boss doesnt buy his supplies of one pen and one piece of paper at a time. He buys in bulk, once a month.
So why does he expect you to.
But when you’re buying your “monthly bulk” once a week?
Either way, if the employer changes the established terms of the payments and requires receipts, he would have to make an allowance for infrequent larger-value purchases already made (for which the receipt may not have been retained and the purchase not even memorable), and which the ongoing night out money is supposed to pay back.
I would also impose an administration charge on them for being required to keep receipts for purchases made during your leisure time (and book down journeys to buy bags, bedding or other cab supplies as duty time). It is precisely because of how onerous the latter is, that the taxman doesn’t require receipts, but assumes a certain figure as being a reasonable reflection of additional costs of a lifestyle which involves working away.
There are a few companies around that wont pay for a drivers food, for example when you pay for parking there is an option for including a meal J15 M1 truckstop for example, so maybe some are looking at ways to cut the overnight expenses. I worked for a rather large company who would pay for the parking, evening meal and without any quibbles…and thats how it should be…for all hauliers…many of our foreign friends are working for a monthly wage, hence the reason for not paying for the parking ( well you dont generaly have to anywhere in europe ) and they dont get a night out allowance which is why most live out of the trailer boxes…like we used to on middle east work, we only got trip money, and made it up in other ways ( to cover our beer nights )
And there lies the problem. Parking is a business expense, night out money is for meals and bedding.
Best option if the company won’t pay for parking is to park on the services, get a fine and let the company pay that as a business expense. The tax man gives you a tax free amount to live on, not to pay your company’s expenses which they can write off their tax bill.
Honked:
Best option if the company won’t pay for parking is to park on the services, get a fine and let the company pay that as a business expense.
I’d say the best thing to do was not to use services at all and park up anywhere you choose. After getting a call every morning from the driver saying “curtain cut again last night boss” they’ll probably insist on you using services at which point you say “only if you’re paying for it, the £25 is for me to eat not pay for parking” at which point they realise they have been ripping the ■■■■ and accept they are at it and pay you night out money AND pay for parking.
Good idea in theory of course!
They pay for a hotel and dinner, not sure why you feel you should have n/o money to? I thought n/o money was for sleeping in the cab ehich you said you do sometimes…but normally you don’t. I’ve never heard of a firm paying hotels dinners and n/o in top
OllieNotts:
They pay for a hotel and dinner, not sure why you feel you should have n/o money to? I thought n/o money was for sleeping in the cab ehich you said you do sometimes…but normally you don’t. I’ve never heard of a firm paying hotels dinners and n/o in top
Not sure if that’s aimed at me Ollie?, I get a hotel paid and a payment of £22 to get my breakfast,lunch and dinner with, not hotel, meal and £22 payment.
Thanks everyone for all your replies. Most helpful.
OllieNotts:
They pay for a hotel and dinner, not sure why you feel you should have n/o money to? I thought n/o money was for sleeping in the cab ehich you said you do sometimes…but normally you don’t. I’ve never heard of a firm paying hotels dinners and n/o in top
An occasional night away with plenty of advance warning, in a nice hotel, with a meal on the boss, is something many would do for no extra pay, because it’s a bit of a novelty which pays for itself. It can even be seen as a perk of the job which makes it a bit more interesting.
But you wouldn’t do it four times a week, every week, just for the expenses, would you? Because once the novelty is gone, you want hard cash to compensate for being away from home.
I’ve never encountered a situation where the boss argues that covering the cost of your room and food is the quid pro quo for staying away from home - even for a single night on an exceptional basis. At the very least, if you aren’t paid specifically for staying away, then your basic salary would have to be much higher than the norm, to reflect that aspect of the job.
OllieNotts:
They pay for a hotel and dinner, not sure why you feel you should have n/o money to? I thought n/o money was for sleeping in the cab ehich you said you do sometimes…but normally you don’t. I’ve never heard of a firm paying hotels dinners and n/o in top
I’ve never encountered a situation where the boss argues that covering the cost of your room and food is the quid pro quo for staying away from home - even for a single night on an exceptional basis. At the very least, if you aren’t paid specifically for staying away, then your basic salary would have to be much higher than the norm, to reflect that aspect of the job.
If you’ve agreed to a take a job that you know involves being away from home, staying in hotels with expenses paid, why should you then expect an extra payment?
mr lordi:
Evening all, does anybody else’s employer ask for receipts for night out money, I have been told today from April all our night out money has to be justified via receipts and if We don’t get a receipt we have to give the difference in the money back? We only get £22 a night, I don’t do many nights out in the wagon ( maybe 20 a year ) but do stay in hotels regular about a week a month on average. They are trying to make out this is going to be nationalised. Anyone heard this or company pulling a fast one?
You say you’re the only HGV driver and when away you and the others mostly stay in hotels.
I assume the company gives you a cash float at the beginning of the week. So I think for them to claim it as expenses they’d need receipts, or It might have that they’ve giving you a day rate to pay for out of pocket expenses for being away (Meals etc) I assume they’re not expecting you to find accommodation at £22 per night and now the tax man has said they need to produce receipts to claim it or it becomes part of your pay.
I quite often stay in hotels and all my meals and other expenses are paid, but I have to produce receipts after each trip and an itemised expense sheet. I can get away with a few non receipted expenses, but can’t take the ■■■■.
I believe the tax free night out money for drivers is an agreement between the industry and the HMRC, not sure if this extends to other industries.
For the few nights you do in the cab, I’d ask if you can claim them as night out expenses at the agreed rate, or ask for a pay rise to compensate.
Thanks Muckles, yes basically we are in hotels unless I’m in the wagon, they break down our payment as follows, £11 meal allowance, £7 breakfast and £5 miscellaneous expenses, they have asked for receipts for the meal and breakfast allowance. We get paid the week before we go away into our wages, no cash, all accommodation is paid in advance by them. I’m not sure whether they are just doing this to claim back vat on our receipts or if they have been instructed by hmrc, either way I don’t see why I should be forced to go out eating and drinking, something I don’t normally do.
Now your a bit clearer,on what you pay for and what the Company pays for.
It seems that the £22 is meal allowance not night out money as your hotel is pre-paid for by the Company,thats why they want receipts. Make sure you have a good evening meal in a restaurant and a good breakfast you dont need to drink to get through £22 but you do need to eat
Only other thing that is not quite clear is how much do they give you on top of your meal allowance for sleeping in your cab and not a pre-paid hotel??
