New Truck Stop Opening Soon (We Wish)

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

How much would it cost to set one up?

To buy a piece of land and basically tarmac it big enough for 250 wagons, put a big security fence around it, a building/portacabins for showers/changing area and a security hut at the entrance/exit?

Rules of the site

£15 per night including use of showers
£2 rebate if showers cleaned up after you (I don’t mean scrubbed) I mean all your crap (razor/shampoo bottles/shower gel bottles) put in bin.
£5 booking fee on credit/debit card to ensure parking space if booked before 1900, giving you plenty of time to seek an alternative if none available, refunded or deducted from entrance price on arrival
Local takeaways available to deliver to entrance of yard
Regular security patrols, including non barking guard dogs.
Electrical points, like campsites, for use with tele’s or laptops or anything (standard charge of £5 per 12 hours. (Dependant on electricity charges.)
A separate area, including noise reduction measures to separate normal wagons and reefers.
For reefers a chance to plug fridges in to mains at a charge of £10 per 12 hours. (Dependant on electricity charges, again.)
Alarm call booking system
Jumpstart/Battery Booster available if required (depends on legallity of this)

If you look at the profit margins it would be a bit of a struggle to start but once you have it set up you would be sorted for a while

Per Day Costs
250 wagons @ £15 = £3750
Shower rebate for all of them = £500 = £3250
Security company £1000, 24 hour patrols with dogs(very rough estimate) = £2250
Wages (gate staff not incl in security) @ £7 per hours X 12 hour shifts £168 = £2082
Water Rates (V rough Estimate again £100) = £1982
Electricity would not cost you as passed on to customer

Average out over 300 days per year (ish, because you might not get it full every day of the year) = £594,600.00 per year.

Even if it cost £1Million to set up you would* make it back in the first 2 years.

Why can’t other companies (or even people like us) see the potential behind this and actually make this work. There has got to be loads of places to buy the land about 5-10 miles away from the motorway/A roads

No doubt people will shoot this down in flames with valid reasons why it cant be done but it is worth a thought.

    • Edit- should read -could-
2

Should be free to park!

But one must spend £10 in cafe/bar. If you don’t, its a tenner to park!

Showers…pound, but these showers would be basic, one big block tiled, steaming hot and powerful.

The cafe/bar should be so clean and friendly that families would come to have their dinner/tea.

Any britishtruckdriverness going on and he/she would be put in the stocks and barred for 24hrs.

Just to add some adjustments to the original idea, £15 is too steep, where did you get these figures? !!
:unamused:

3

Not going to shoot you down in flames but I think a million quid to set it up is very very conservative. The biggest problem in the UK against Europe is land prices and business rates, apart from the nimby element,

You can imagine trying to get planning permission for that in leafy suburbia from the Terry and June or Margo Leadbeaters.

A truck park is not a viable business unless you can utilise the facility round the clock (imo) Ashford is probably the only one that is regularly busy throughout the day, More so when stack is operational, although with the introduction of the timed booking systems at Southampton and Felixstowe more parks may be needed. But does your boss want to pay for those too?

An idea I have suggested in the past would make the supermarkets and shopping centres turn over the car park land to trucks at night.

Obviously the parks have to be strengthened and redesigned but a supermarket chain invariably causes many more trucks to be on the road, let them give something back to the industry. They have the land, they can afford it and it would also regenerate business for them.

I havent got the answers either, but the thing I do agree with is, that trucks need lorry parks and quickly.

4

Koop:
Should be free to park!

i totally agree with you but who is going to pay to build these truckstops or maintain them, clean them and make them more secure by having security patrols and not get anything back? you should know by now the government will not do it!
i know if i had millions in the bank, like richard branson, why would i want to fork out £1million, for arguments sake, to build it and not even break even. of course there is going to be a charge! we wont ever get free secure parking, anyone that thinks we will is blinkered! :wink:

Koop:
But one must spend £10 in cafe/bar. If you don’t, its a tenner to park!

Who mentioned anything about a cafe or a bar? it would be a good idea to have one but to strart with lets start with the basics a trucker needs, security for himself, his truck and his load and showers, you never know if you did build a truckstop and was filling it everyday with 250 wagons do you not think someone like toby carvery or harvester or some other pub chain or eatery would plug into this and build one quite close?

Koop:
Showers…pound, but these showers would be basic, one big block tiled, steaming hot and powerful.

a pound for a hot shower? who would pay to clean the block and for the heating and hot water? the drivers certainly wouldnt be if it only cost a pound.

Koop:
The cafe/bar should be so clean and friendly that families would come to have their dinner/tea.

see above comment

Koop:
Any britishtruckdriverness going on and he/she would be put in the stocks and barred for 24hrs.

:laughing: :laughing:

Koop:
Just to add some adjustments to the original idea, £15 is too steep, where did you get these figures? !!
:unamused:

£15 (£13 if your not a scruffy, lazy git) for a secure parking area with regular disrupted security patrols and the availability of a nice clean warm showers. you pay £12.50 to park at welcome break and you are not gauranteed security or a clean shower, lets be honest! and when have you been able to book in at welcome break and be guaranteed a parking space with no reefers next to you!

5

Wheel Nut:
Not going to shoot you down in flames but I think a million quid to set it up is very very conservative.

i know it is. i havent looked into this seriously enough to get quotes or anything but for the basics, even if it cost £4 million or £10 million you would make that back in 8 or 15-20 years respectively, with inflation and a bit of private funding it is possible. plus if it is seccessful and you get good feedback you could possibly expand and get more backing!

Wheel Nut:
The biggest problem in the UK against Europe is land prices and business rates, apart from the nimby element,

i am sure if you put a good enough business case together the local government might, and thats a big might, allow you to do it, especially if you are going to remove trucks from illegaly parking overnight on industrial estates and laybys, and making them smell like public toilets on a hot day, plus business rates are expensive, but the figures i quoted for profit are for if it is only full 300 days a year! if you get a good area where a lot of people take breaks (like outside some of the major cities that we deliver to)

Wheel Nut:
You can imagine trying to get planning permission for that in leafy suburbia from the Terry and June or Margo Leadbeaters.

see above

6

Gibsla, Rateable value is horrendous, planning dont want to know, and off course you need involvement from the highways agency,

Insurance is unbelievable
Health and safety
Fuel bunkers are about 200k each

Most important the banks dont want to know, have you ever thought if Truckstops were such money makers why the fuel companies dont get involved more in building them, Also the fuel company owned truckstops have been closing, the profit margins arent there.

7

I have looked into the viability of a Truckstop, obviously knowing what drivers want, need, like, dislike, it takes alot to provide all the facilities, but time and effort it could be done.
Now because I live on the A14 corridor, I know that the number of trucks that would use such facility is MORE THAN NEEDED! AND WOULD BE WELL USED!

BUT…

If you drive the 14 you will have noticed that by jct 2, where the Welford cafe is?

On that jct there is a sign which I think has gone now, stating land suitable for Service area, The cost of the land?

OIRO £4.6 million!

None of the big boys have took this plot, cos it would have been up and done when the A14 was opened? It would be interesting to find out why no-one has took that spot?

8

Giblsa:
£15 per night including use of showers £12.77 + Vat = £15.00

£2 rebate if showers cleaned up after you (I don’t mean scrubbed) I mean all your crap (razor/shampoo bottles/shower gel bottles) put in bin.

So now your down to £11.06 + Vat = £13.00

£5 booking fee on credit/debit card to ensure parking space if booked before 1900, giving you plenty of time to seek an alternative if none available, refunded or deducted from entrance price on arrival £4.25 + Vat

Local takeaways available to deliver to entrance of yard
Regular security patrols, including non barking guard dogs.
Electrical points, like campsites, for use with tele’s or laptops or anything (standard charge of £5 per 12 hours. (Dependant on electricity charges.)
A separate area, including noise reduction measures to separate normal wagons and reefers.
For reefers a chance to plug fridges in to mains at a charge of £10 per 12 hours. (Dependant on electricity charges, again.)

Dont forget your offering a service therefore must charge Vat @ 17.5%

Alarm call booking system
Jumpstart/Battery Booster available if required (depends on legallity of this)

If you look at the profit margins it would be a bit of a struggle to start but once you have it set up you would be sorted for a while

Per Day Costs
250 wagons @ £15 = £3750 Nope it’s £3192.50 + Vat

Shower rebate for all of them = £500 = £3250 So your now down to £2765.00 + Vat

Security company £1000, 24 hour patrols with dogs(very rough estimate) = £2250 + £393.75 Vat

Wages (gate staff not incl in security) @ £7 per hours X 12 hour shifts £168 = £2082 + Employers NI Contributions etc etc etc

Water Rates (V rough Estimate again £100) = £1982 + Vat £346.85

Electricity would not cost you as passed on to customer But you still have to charge Vat for the service

Average out over 300 days per year (ish, because you might not get it full every day of the year) = £594,600.00 per year.

Try recalculating now and you’ll see a big difference :wink:

Even if it cost £1Million to set up you would make it back in the first 2 years.

errrrmmm I dont think so :slight_smile:

Why can’t other companies (or even people like us) see the potential behind this and actually make this work. There has got to be loads of places to buy the land about 5-10 miles away from the motorway/A roads

Dont get me wrong I’m not knocking the idea but, it is very badly thought out as you are ignoring the majot knock back which makes it one of the reasons why existing owners are selling up.

Vat is charged on everything @ 17.5% you also have corporation tax to pay on profits etc etc etc

There are no discounts for your land standing empty during holidays so the council tax still has to be paid.

You dont Recoup the investment as quick as you think, you say 2 years, it would be more like 10 years providing you are lucky enough to have it full every night.

You would have wages to pay, Holiday pay to pay, Employers contributions, Health and Safety issues to sort out and none of it comes cheap.

In theory a great idea but in practicle terms ■■?

9

willie_mac:
Gibsla, Rateable value is horrendous, planning dont want to know, and off couse you need involvement from the highways agency,

Insurance is unbelievable
Health and safety
Fuel bunkers are about 200k each

Most impotant the banks dont want to know, have you ever thought if Truckstops were such money makers why the fuel companies dont get involved more in building them, Also the fuel conpany owned truckstops have been closing, the profit margins arent there.

I do not doubt you in anyway but have you thought it might be because some of these places are absolutely disgusting and not many people are willing to pay to stop there.

Plus on most of them when have you ever seen a security patrol? I know I don’t stop over night much but when ever I have I have never seen or even got a sniff of a security patrol. Once they have got your money they are not interested, maybe if they improved the services they provide, or reduced their prices until the improvements then people might use them a lot more.

All it takes is to build up a reputation by word of mouth on places like this and people will try to get there if they know it is good. How many times have you walked past a nice looking restaurant that you fancied eating in because a friend or relative has said it was cack? on teh other hand how many times have you gone somewhere because you were told it was good and it was rubbish?

What I am trying to say is all it would take is a bit (a hell of a lot) of money and a bit of common sense to get one up and running and it will help us all out. Why can’t the big companies see this and do something about it!

10

the biggest problem with your fingers is u expect it to be full and everyone to use the showers its a good idea thats why hotels go bust baseing the profits on been full all the time granted u said 300 day work it on on maybe having 50 in and see if theres still a profit

11

I’m not going to shoot you down either mate but the point wheel nut made about the cost of land etc is probably the main reason anybody with a business type brain would steer clear of this type of investment. Not a quick enough or high enough return on there money.
Another reason people would be put of, is the hassle involved in running a truck stop, I like most of you guys have been in most of the larger stops in the UK and half the problems these places have are caused by drivers themselfs vandalism and graffitti is rife.
Whats the point spending money trying to provide a service when the very people you are providing for, crap all over you
I for one could’nt be bothered with the hassle.

12

there are some very good points against the idea on here but what i was getting at is we need more and if it was done properly with a good strategic business plan it is possible, i just cant work out why the bigger companies are pulling out of making money from trucks, we all haul their gear all over the uk and even further but they do nothing to make us a happier bunch (if that is at all possible without paying us £200 an hour :wink: ).

if your workers are happy you have more output and better working relations, it is just one of the ways to improve our way of life, be it only a small one but it will make our life easier and im sure some companies could turn a profit. the figures i used at the start were purely speculation and maybe i should have looked a bit deeper in to it but why wont they do it for us. if it was for the average motorist i’m sure they would do it as they could probably make more money out of them!

but it is costing everyone money in the long run, loads get nicked or curtains get slashed, companies claim for this on thier insurance, thier premiums go up and they pass this on to thier customers who pass it on to thiers. it is one big vicious circle and of course the spawn of the dog poop the lowly british trucker gets shafted everytime.

personally i dont blame the bosses of haulage companies, why should they care, as long as they are ok sat in thier 3 bedroomed house every night with running water at the press of a button or the turn of a tap, it doesnt matter that we have just had to handball 20 pallets off the back, get covered in oil and grease and then have to sleep like that because of the lack of facilities available for us. it is about time we were respected for what we do, not just seen as the dirty trucker that stinks cos he hasnt showered for 3 days, why hasnt he had a shower? because why should we shower in facilities that are knee deep in wee and crap everywhere, some showers i have seen i wouldnt even take my dog in there to do his business let alone wash him in there. pigs on farms get treated better than us!

:imp: :imp: Rant Over :blush: :laughing: :laughing:

13

Giblsa, a few of us got together in Edinburgh to build a truckstop on or just off the bypass one off the group actually owned the land. We had to give up through red tape, highways agency and planning, they were not interested !!!

14

Plus the cost of an interpreter, £25+ an hour, you’d be surprised the number who suddenly don’t understand English when you ask them for money to park!
And it’s going to get worse:

15

willie_mac:
Giblsa, a few of us got together in Edinburgh to build a truckstop on or just off the bypass one off the group actually owned the land. We had to give up through red tape, highways agency and planning, they were not interested !!!

That is what is wrong with this country. Bureaucratic crap everyway you turn! Why don’t they try to help people that are trying to improve things for others!

It makes me sick

16

They don 't appear to have the problems in Europe building truckstops, they are also used at the weekend by families.
Oh they are free to park aswell, the showers are clean, and NO you don’t find ■■■ in Trees!!
I have been in Haulage since the early 70s and I have seen some massive improvements/changes in that time, I do think we do need younger people to try and improve our scruffy rough diamond image!!!
The question about parking does come up fairly often on here, but nothing really happens, we could do with a spokesman to fight our corner for better facilities we (me) are sick and tired of being treated as a 2nd class citizen because I drive for a living, all I would like is a decent shower and decent food .
Anybody on here know someone like Gordon ramsey or Jamie Oliver■■?
Keep going Giblsa…

17

Some good points raised here, I dont think anyone is dismissing your post out of hand Gibisa.

However the UK is very different to the rest of Europe, we are over populated for a small island. This is not anything new,I think it has been like that for over 100 years, so that makes land an expensive commodity, We need it for agriculture and housing.

We as truck drivers are our own worst enemy anyway as we have always managed. I know many little places where I can park a truck, as many others do, but we are not going to share that information with everyone :wink:

In turn our bosses just let us get on with it and as long as we dont get mugged, have precious fuel stolen or the trailer slashed they are happy to let it continue.

So we find a site, it is just off junction 40 off the M62 with a good access road. The land is already passed for industrial land and you approach your bank. They eventually stop laughing and say they will put a cash point in if it ever opens. They like these because they can make more money out of lorry drivers who withdraw their hard earned wages :frowning:

So you approach the fire breathing Brother of a TruckNet member and explain your plan. He listens and eventually agrees that you have a good idea, so he is willing to become your partner and put up the money. The only stipulation is that he wants to charge £25 per truck and build a health club on the site as well.

You refuse him this, so the bloke goes behind your back and buys the land anyway and fills it with warehousing creating even more traffic on the roads.

OK. This was a little tongue in cheek but you can see the problem.

I think, the only way forward is to legislate against companies who want to build new industrial developments and shops. If they do not provide plans to the councils showing how they will incorporate free truck facilities into their greenfield site. The plans should be refused.

Traffic Commisioners regularly haul operators over the coals for drivers making a noise in the depot, leaving a truck running at the gate or because the access road is too narrow,
The TC will impose conditions on which way the trucks enter or leave a site, whether the neighbours are justified in a complaint or not.

These same hauliers drivers can then spend 5 nights a week parking in a layby and defecating under a bush. They then have to face a customers client the next morning having had a bath with a wet wipe.

Maybe if we start the European custom of shaking everyone by the hand something will be done :smiley:

18

The idea of using empty car parks at night is a good idea.

I remember a place near Paisley about 2 years ago, on Wallneuk Road

If you look close enough on the sat pic, the bays are dual marked for cars and trucks.

Parking was £10.00 payable at the Pub and included a 3 course meal. No showers I could see, but the place was quiet enough and well lit with CCTV.

There must be hundreds of suitable car parks around the country, but it’s the same story.

No-one wants big dirty smelly lorries in their back yards.

19

Years ago many of us parked up in local cattle markets. I doubt there can be many left these days or if there are trucks are probably banned or theyre locked up at night.

20

Hombre:
Years ago many of us parked up in local cattle markets. I doubt there can be many left these days or if there are trucks are probably banned or theyre locked up at night.

That is exactly the problem. The cattle markets were normally in the centre of towns and in their day were a place the farmers would meet, vittels were bought and t’missus would dress up in 'er finery to do some shopping.

Unfortunately these same places were built on real estate that the developers wanted, Local councils sold them off to raise money for lesbians in Mogadishu or the planning commitee were too busy to notice as they were opening brown envelopes stuffed with used tenners.

Tosco & Masda want their home grown organic lamb but they dont want to get it from the local farmer, they prefer to drag it half way round the countryside first