New rules for recording drivers activities [Merged]

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Conor:

robroy:
So all the times on here I’ve answered posts to drivers who were ■■■■■■■■ themselves about tacho trivialities, with the standard reply of…‘‘Just because you have a licence, they don’t own you’’, now it seems as if they are moving towards that. :imp:
Wtf has it to do with the [zb] when and how I spend my free time ffs.

Nothing. It’s what you do with the time you’re doing something else that is work which is legally required to be recorded under the drivers hours rules to ensure you’re meeting the legal requirements for daily and weekly rest.

Or are you saying you condone running bent, doing things like going to work at a day job from 8am to 5pm then jumping in a lorry at 5.30pm and doing a 12hr shift?

Yeah Robroy, answer that! Are you even a lorry driver?

22

Why don.t drivers bowl this lot a googly and tell the government and vosa and the rest…,We are no longer prepared to work more than 10 spread and no more the eight hours driving, we want paying for all the hours spent in the truck overnight…ALL IN THE INTRESTS OF FAIRNESS AND SAFETY(MAX WORKING WEEK 40 HOURS NO MORE )

23

the maoster:

Conor:

robroy:
So all the times on here I’ve answered posts to drivers who were ■■■■■■■■ themselves about tacho trivialities, with the standard reply of…‘‘Just because you have a licence, they don’t own you’’, now it seems as if they are moving towards that. :imp:
Wtf has it to do with the [zb] when and how I spend my free time ffs.

Nothing. It’s what you do with the time you’re doing something else that is work which is legally required to be recorded under the drivers hours rules to ensure you’re meeting the legal requirements for daily and weekly rest.

Or are you saying you condone running bent, doing things like going to work at a day job from 8am to 5pm then jumping in a lorry at 5.30pm and doing a 12hr shift?

Yeah Robroy, answer that! Are you even a lorry driver?

Well.at least I ain’t a ‘‘Crap driver’’ like he once said you were.
(I See his point btw :laughing: )

24

Tbf it did have a point :smiley:

25

the maoster:
I cheated the other week by sticking my card into my allocated unit for the day and pocketed the keys. Not ideal but there ya go.

That’s what lads who shunt do at my place.

26

The 28 days needs to be on one of three options - card, printout or the old style chart. Company letter is no longer seen as sufficient.

27

All it is is to give the pointy shoes somthing to do with thier 37.5 hours a week so they can prove thier usefulness. how the hell is anyone going to now what you have done when you wernt driving a truck unless the driver tells them. No dvsa agent is going to follow a driver around 24/7 to see if he lied on his tacho or are you going to have to submit bank records so they can see if you got paid by anyone else.

Best thing this country can do is get rid of all these hangers on that come up with this crap to justify thier 100,000 pound saleries.

28

Glad I don’t drive any more, in my last few years I was only doing the odd few days and the last day was after a 3 month break so god knows how that would work. Also ran over the water to Belgium on the odd occasion, makes me wonder what the jaw dropping fines over there would be!

29

Harry Monk:
When I go back to work in September I won’t have driven a truck for six months, and if the VOSA think I’m going to do six months’ worth of manual entries on my first day back then I’m afraid they’ve got another think coming.

It’s “only” the previous 28 days Harry, but I know what you mean, I last drove a truck at the end of March 2021 and intend to do some this August.

30

This has to be an invasion of privacy, akin to communist control in my observations.
Who is going to do this really?

31

I will stick with what it STILL says on the government web site rather than a supposed article that is ACTUALLY an advert for a training course ‘‘that runs throughout the year’’ :laughing: gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules A digital or smart tachograph offers the ability for a driver to enter activities carried out by them away from their vehicle. This is by means of the manual input facility in the tachograph. There is however no requirement to make a manual record on a driver card where all the activity has already been captured on an analogue record sheet. An analogue record sheet being a log book or such like.

32

shullbit:
I will stick with what it STILL says on the government web site rather than a supposed article that is ACTUALLY an advert for a training course ‘‘that runs throughout the year’’ :laughing: gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules A digital or smart tachograph offers the ability for a driver to enter activities carried out by them away from their vehicle. This is by means of the manual input facility in the tachograph. There is however no requirement to make a manual record on a driver card where all the activity has already been captured on an analogue record sheet. An analogue record sheet being a log book or such like.

I will quote myself…
Further reading on same site i find this…Drivers are required, in addition to breaks and rest periods, to record periods of annual or sick leave under the rest mode (bed symbol) by using the manual inputs on a digital/smart tachograph or by making a manual record on a chart or print out paper.

So they contradict themselves on their own website :laughing:

Surely some dvsa bods must browse trucknet, maybe they should start contributing with some input on how they deal with this ■■■■

33

th.ey say they want safety …give them it …bin the 15 hour spread, no more than eight hours drive time a max ten hour spread ,to more than five days a week. week end to be counted as double hours…, that would bring road transport into the 1990s but it would be a start

34

Just wondered what the hours are for train drivers…?

35

fuse:
th.ey say they want safety …give them it …bin the 15 hour spread, no more than eight hours drive time a max ten hour spread ,to more than five days a week. week end to be counted as double hours…, that would bring road transport into the 1990s but it would be a start

It’s just lip service, they don’t give a flying ■■■■ in reality, it’s all smoke screens and hidden agendas, and prioritising covertly on other things…
If they did care they could do something like what you suggest overnight, they’ve no intention of imposing sensible hours on to us.
The bonus for them is (some may say the reason) is at the same time they pretend to be concerned, they can make a few quid on the side with heavy fines for not conforming to their half arsed ideas.
That’s how it all works, don’t be fooled, you learn all this stuff after a few years experience in the industry, …OR on the other hand some actually take things on face value and believe every ■■■■ thing they are told by ‘‘them’’… :unamused:

36

These rues aren’t new, they’re part of the package of changes to No.561/2006 that were brought in on 20/08/20.
For a typical jobbing driver there are no changes, just keep on recording everything on the driver card, answer the tacho accurately when it asks “rest until now?” (which is itself a manual entry) or where necessary do the bog-standard ME for work away from wagon.

What is new is this fear-frenzy being stirred up, first by Backhouse Jones solicitors, now by RHA too, all in aid of selling their e-courses. Any decent TM who’s up to date with their CPD should be doing a toolbox talk to make sure every one is on the same page with this.

37

fuse:
Just wondered what the hours are for train drivers…?

Train drivers get something like 50k a year based on a 37 hour week, and that was about 4 years ago when I tried to get a job as one.
edit…its gone up firstgroupcareers.com/vacan … scription/ …60k and its contracted to 35 hours a measly £33 per hour

38

I love the way they dream up these ideas and implement them.

They know who will be impacted and could send letters telling you that they now expect this that or the other or possibly all three.

But there are many drivers who will be completely unaware of these changes as they might not be working or are working and not getting that info passed down.

39

This is going to be hardest for agency drivers who work for multiple agencies, I would have thought.

If you just work for the single agency, then a manual entry that covers the entire time “between shifts” is put down as “rest” rather than “other work elsewhere”.

The dodgy bit - would be if you do another job that doesn’t involve driving with a digicard - or driving at ALL, come to that.

Another “Grey Area” would be if a part-timer were to do unpaid voluntary work on a regular, scheduled, basis.

You could, in theory be accused of “falsifying your record” if you booked “Rest” right through, but say - did a non-driving Saturday job, paid or unpaid whilst trying to book a 45 rest across a weekend on one’s digicard, for example.

Last year, I worked for three different outfits during the month of July for instance.
All three jobs were “pro driving” however, so “when I’m off - I’m off!” applies in my case.
The aggregate hours of all those assignments combined - put me in the usual 48-60 hours range.
I have no interest in trying to work over 60 hours at any combination of jobs, regarless of how short of cash I might be that week, or how well such work paid. If I got over 30 hours work at any one outlet - I’d then not bother to work anywhere else. I can get by on 30-40 hour weeks. There’s no need to push the boat out. If I only got a single shift on the other hand, I might put in a single shift at two other venues that same week… During the summer holiday season - that is easy to swing, and the work is not bad quality one gets neither.

Another aspect of running more than one job alongside one’s driving - is that you need to avoid the type of work that goes “unrecorded” lest you be tempted into working excessive hours overall, and end up going to work half asleep, Eg. turning up for a daytime drive after you’ve just worked the night before 8 hours as a “Security Guard” for instance…

Thus, the simple way of looking at it is that “Rest” when manually applied to one’s digicard entries - should end up meaning “You’re not anywhere except at home, or undertaking a leisure activity such as going out for the day”.

You wouldn’t dream of “going out on the razz, and working the next day driving” - would you?

Some things in lifestyle choices - are inappropriate for we Pro Drivers to include in our regular itineries.

Getting rat-arsed on one’s days off - or working a full shift doing anything one one’s “weekly rest period” - have got to be no-nos, surely? I wouldn’t even attempt to attend a wedding on a saturday if I was booked for work the friday and/or the Sunday, which is nearly always the case. Saturday has thus become my Sabbath Day, and I’m not even Jewish. Go figure!

“The Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath”
J.Christ, circa AD 30.

40

From what I understand the three methods that were officially acceptable before were the digi-card, the analogue chart and printout paper from the digital tachograph. Therefore, this means NO CHANGE.

Also, if you record days you work and your start and finish times by implication days with no shifts are time off. No need to produce a piece of paper for each day off. Entirely stupid and pointless record-keeping.

If the DVSA was making a change to enforcement and penalties and the way they deal with lack of records or incorrectly held records they would announce it.

So essentially no change from before, a diary will probably be okay and I suspect that a DVSA officer would probably find a diary more readable than being handed a wod of tachograph paper to sift through.