Advice and personal opinions please,
I am going to start up as an owner driver in the new year, decided not to start until then as its only just started coming together, everything is in place and sorted except for the vehicle. Need a 6X2 tractor and I am so bloody confused as to which way to go. Do I lease and have a monthly fixed cost with R&M and have sleep filled nights? Do I buy an old motor outright that’s basically export fodder and take a risk? Or do I get some finance for something newer? I know there is no correct answer to these questions and its about how much bottle I have, but I just wondered what other people think and do, and what you guys think the pit falls and positives are.
Thanks
If I did it again I would lease a truck with full R&M.
A truck which is export fodder is only export fodder because the last owner started spending more on maintenance and breakdowns than a new truck would cost. Things won’t improve just because you bought it.
You could take a punt on a 3-4 year old truck, and it might work out or it might not, depends on your luck.
I would be seriously looking at those 2012 Premium 460DXis at CVA auctions for £6/8k, they’re virtually a Volvo after all and actually “drive” better!!![emoji41]
How could you beat that sort of handy money for a decent ex contract hire 1st truck for a start up!!![emoji6]
Run her for a year and see how things go then chop her in.
Yes could go wrong with some bills but I’d be willing to bet she’s do the job rightly!!![emoji106]
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Hi Steptoe, good luck with your venture.
From personal experience I’m coming to the end of 29 years as an owner driver in general haulage (family care has now become my priority). I did as you suggested and bought my first F10-17 Volvo and ran it for 12 months then continuing buying my units on finance and servicing them all myself (bar one that I bought new in 2004 with R&M). If I was starting again today I’d be inclined towards leasing with R&M simply because it’s getting harder to diagnose faults accurately without expensive equipment, plus as you said,will let you sleep at night.
I haven’t become a millionaire, but I have had a comfortable living out of it thanks to the support of a fantastic partner.
I’ve just done this. I rented a 64 plate for six months and in just under two months pick up the brand new leased unit with R&M. The vehicle I’m currently suffering is a 2014/64 (September) Mercedes Benz Actros 2551 BigSpace 6x2 ex medium fleet and off an R&M. In the 4.5 months to date the following has gone wrong, some of these might be a bit picky:
:: Fridge not working: Turned out to not be wired in. Took two dealer visits to get solved!
:: Washer jets useless. Turned out to be broken blades on pump, pump replaced.
:: Fan belt worn to near failure. Replaced.
:: Fridge drawer catch broken.
:: Breakdown - Ran out of AdBlue, it dropped through the entire reserve in 123km, the rest of the tank lasted 1600km. Suspect AdBlue sender unit fault but dealer cant diagnose because computer says no fault. Its back in again this weekend and they are going to try again. If they cant find the fault, I have to pay £168 + VAT for the breakdown call out, if they diagnose a fault, Charter Way will pick up the bill.
:: Breakdown - Flat batteries, jumped and tested and sent me on my way.
:: Breakdown - Two days later, less than half a tank of diesel later too, flat batteries. Batteries replaced this time and have seen no fault since.
:: 2 x Drive tyres. The only thing I have to pay for except for glass damage. £180 a tyre due to low tread and absolutely no traction at all.
:: New windscreen required. Big chip, bang on the middle, not reparable. Will change just before the wagon goes back in rather than fit a new screen and pick up another chip before it goes back and have to fork out again.
:: Error code - Battery in key running low. Spare key already flat. Both are being changed and re-coded this weekend.
I agonised over the right way to do it and came to the conclusion that playing Russian Roulette when you are desperate for the first invoice to be paid can kill you off before you even get going. I put a nail through a trailer tyre on day 2! Luckily that was reparable rather than a replacement but with an older wagon it could be anything that goes wrong. The advice I got on here was mixed but talking to other operators face to face, including my old boss who helped me get on my feet, the advice was almost always go for fixed costs. You can budget for and plan for a lease or rental payment, you cant budget or plan for a turbo failure early on because its a) flippin expensive and b) always unexpected, if you knew it was coming you would either get shot, or fix it before it went and damaged other things and cost the earth.
I looked long and hard into when to start too. Going through the weekly figures I was given by my old boss and the .gov.uk statistics on monthly freight imports/exports, the best month to start is April/May time. You get the best run of busy time before the slack periods around New Year/Chinese New Year. I missed out due to O-Licensing. Finally got going in June.
nsmith1180:
I’ve just done this. I rented a 64 plate for six months and in just under two months pick up the brand new leased unit with R&M. The vehicle I’m currently suffering is a 2014/64 (September) Mercedes Benz Actros 2551 BigSpace 6x2 ex medium fleet and off an R&M. In the 4.5 months to date the following has gone wrong, some of these might be a bit picky::: Fridge not working: Turned out to not be wired in. Took two dealer visits to get solved!
:: Washer jets useless. Turned out to be broken blades on pump, pump replaced.
:: Fan belt worn to near failure. Replaced.
:: Fridge drawer catch broken.
:: Breakdown - Ran out of AdBlue, it dropped through the entire reserve in 123km, the rest of the tank lasted 1600km. Suspect AdBlue sender unit fault but dealer cant diagnose because computer says no fault. Its back in again this weekend and they are going to try again. If they cant find the fault, I have to pay £168 + VAT for the breakdown call out, if they diagnose a fault, Charter Way will pick up the bill.
:: Breakdown - Flat batteries, jumped and tested and sent me on my way.
:: Breakdown - Two days later, less than half a tank of diesel later too, flat batteries. Batteries replaced this time and have seen no fault since.
:: 2 x Drive tyres. The only thing I have to pay for except for glass damage. £180 a tyre due to low tread and absolutely no traction at all.
:: New windscreen required. Big chip, bang on the middle, not reparable. Will change just before the wagon goes back in rather than fit a new screen and pick up another chip before it goes back and have to fork out again.
:: Error code - Battery in key running low. Spare key already flat. Both are being changed and re-coded this weekend.I agonised over the right way to do it and came to the conclusion that playing Russian Roulette when you are desperate for the first invoice to be paid can kill you off before you even get going. I put a nail through a trailer tyre on day 2! Luckily that was reparable rather than a replacement but with an older wagon it could be anything that goes wrong. The advice I got on here was mixed but talking to other operators face to face, including my old boss who helped me get on my feet, the advice was almost always go for fixed costs. You can budget for and plan for a lease or rental payment, you cant budget or plan for a turbo failure early on because its a) flippin expensive and b) always unexpected, if you knew it was coming you would either get shot, or fix it before it went and damaged other things and cost the earth.
I looked long and hard into when to start too. Going through the weekly figures I was given by my old boss and the .gov.uk statistics on monthly freight imports/exports, the best month to start is April/May time. You get the best run of busy time before the slack periods around New Year/Chinese New Year. I missed out due to O-Licensing. Finally got going in June.
You need to get a girlfriend mate 
I’d get a Foden alpha 2 ■■■■■■■ powered ,it will cost you very little to buy ,very little to run ,you can mend it your self ,new and second bits are everywhere ,if your parked up its not costing you because it will be payed for or if it breaks down you could mend most major items for less than a weeks profit and if you pack up you’ll sell it with out loosing much money ,ooh I forgot silly me o/ds on here don’t make a profit they make a wage just to scratch an itch or something 
.
Punchy Dan:
I’d get a Foden alpha 2 ■■■■■■■ powered ,it will cost you very little to buy ,very little to run ,you can mend it your self ,new and second bits are everywhere ,if your parked up its not costing you because it will be payed for or if it breaks down you could mend most major items for less than a weeks profit and if you pack up you’ll sell it with out loosing much money ,ooh I forgot silly me o/ds on here don’t make a profit they make a wage just to scratch an itch or something
What would they be about 2004 “vintage”■■!!![emoji52]
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06/56 
Punchy Dan:
06/56
Most be “well shook”!!![emoji849][emoji21]
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If you have the skills, the tools, even for an older truck you’re going to need more than the Halfords toolkit and place to work, then maybe your own maintenance works out.
However loads of companies, not just haulage, lease expensive and complex kit with high depreciation and I see trucks as no exception.
There is the argument about being able to stand the truck if there is no work, well the depends on your business model I suppose, there was somebody that used to post on here who only took work when the price was right otherwise the truck stood, but most people have other bills so need to work, I suppose you could go on agency if you had no work of your own, but then why have your own truck and the rest of it, that to me would sound more like a hobby than a business.
I know an O/D who went from owning his own truck to leasing, he has never looked back, truck has never has never lost a day work due to unplanned maintenance and he can’t be doing too bad as in his spare time, which used to be used to repair his old trucks, he has restored a truck to take to shows.
I would buy a unit… and that’s based solely on the fact I can afford too. Nothing fancy… I’d go a minimum 2010… Renault premium or iveco £8-12k… I may be tempted to go Volvo or Scania and go around the 20k marker. And if I’m struggling with it or have issues then spot hire or sell it off and commit to a lease vehicle… I would have in my mind that 6 months new vehicle hire would be equal to the cheap purchased option… so I’d have a go. In fact… that’s the way I will be doing it… I can’t see myself driving for someone by next summer.
What did Smithy say he was gonna be paying for the new T460 leased £385week was it??
£6k bid@ auction for those 2012 Premiums (are they ex Langdons leased yokes??)@ £385wk HP would have her cleared in less than FOUR months!!!
Yes the new T460 is on full R&M etc and the 460DXi could drop a cog in the box but surely at those prices the Premium is worth a punt for 1st year start-up!!!
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I have to say that I can’t fault Renault. Had the pleasure of midlums for a long while and never put a foot wrong apart from routine maintenance, and a set of king pins in one that we have recently purchased.
There is a lot to be said for being able to accurately work out your expenditure and not have any nasty unexpected surprises.
However, at 6 grand for a five year old motor you can’t go wrong. I’d bet you’d break it for six grand if it went pop.
Business is all gamble, no one has a crystall ball so just like the lorry going expensively wrong, so can work tail off and customers go phutt owing a lot of money. A new start will likely not have the ear close to the ground and the contacts to pick up the warning signs, he will be too busy catching up on his sleep. What will not alter are the conditions of any contract which an OD has signed to lease the vehicle. A three year contract at £385 a week is a huge commitment if things go wrong and and the bailiffs come round, on the other hand the £6000 lorry is still an asset to sell even if it only makes £2k at the receivers auction.
This is not ruling out the R&M deal on a new vehiclee, but IMO it is really more suited to someone who has put more than the first tentative toe into the ocean.
Goldstar are in the process of disposing of a bunch of 460 premiums. 13 and 14 plate. I believe they had 134 of them to get rid of. If anyone can find out where they’re being sold I should imagine they would be a good buy.
They’re spent their lives limited to 52 mph and maintenance wise they’ve wanted for nothing. Serviced on the nose. Everything done by Renault.
Sounds like a good buy if outright purchase or HP was in the plan.
Big Truck:
What did Smithy say he was gonna be paying for the new T460 leased £385week was it??£6k bid@ auction for those 2012 Premiums (are they ex Langdons leased yokes??)@ £385wk HP would have her cleared in less than FOUR months!!!
Yes the new T460 is on full R&M etc and the 460DXi could drop a cog in the box but surely at those prices the Premium is worth a punt for 1st year start-up!!!
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Wow Big Truck, there is actually someone on here who listens to and remembers my drivel. I feel wanted!
muckles:
There is the argument about being able to stand the truck if there is no work, well the depends on your business model I suppose, there was somebody that used to post on here who only took work when the price was right otherwise the truck stood, but most people have other bills so need to work, I suppose you could go on agency if you had no work of your own, but then why have your own truck and the rest of it, that to me would sound more like a hobby than a business.
I’m of the opinion that if there is no option at all for profit making work, then you are still better to start it up and work it. After all, making a £50 loss on a day is a lot better for cash flow than standing the wagon. Yes you will save £100 on diesel but you still have to pay the driver, you still have either lease payments or depreciation to factor in. Better to work to a £50 loss than stand it to a £150 loss.
^^
youtube.com/watch?v=VNH80LL14Vw
Happy landings on the slippery slope.
On the face of it from a simple mathematical perspective that sounds OK, but it seems a very worrying admission for a new start business to be contemplating that option already. Accepting work at a loss without the prospect of it being a sprat to catch a mackerel only sends out the message that one is prepared to work for that rate; the next offer will be lower still. This is not just about simple economics, it is also about exposure to risk. There is a really profitable load booked for Tuesday morning, but nothing for Monday so the loss is taken on to work the lorry, unfortunately owing to some untoward (adjective: unexpected & causing difficulties) event the vehicle ends up 150 miles away from home, so Tuesday’s load from the upset customer goes to a rival who has been hovering around for months, leading to a potential repeat situation. Obviously the same could have occured with a profitable load but sod’s law prevails.
This gives rise to an interesting dichotomy related to R&M versus ownership. On the one hand there is the risk that there may be some expensive mechanical failure which might lead the owner of the lower value older vehicle to park it for the day rather than work it at a loss. On the other hand the leasee has to consider that the fixed R&M payments include maintenance actually allocated on a daily basis, which encourages him to work the vehicle.
nsmith1180:
Big Truck:
What did Smithy say he was gonna be paying for the new T460 leased £385week was it??£6k bid@ auction for those 2012 Premiums (are they ex Langdons leased yokes??)@ £385wk HP would have her cleared in less than FOUR months!!!
Yes the new T460 is on full R&M etc and the 460DXi could drop a cog in the box but surely at those prices the Premium is worth a punt for 1st year start-up!!!
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Wow Big Truck, there is actually someone on here who listens to and remembers my drivel. I feel wanted!
muckles:
There is the argument about being able to stand the truck if there is no work, well the depends on your business model I suppose, there was somebody that used to post on here who only took work when the price was right otherwise the truck stood, but most people have other bills so need to work, I suppose you could go on agency if you had no work of your own, but then why have your own truck and the rest of it, that to me would sound more like a hobby than a business.I’m of the opinion that if there is no option at all for profit making work, then you are still better to start it up and work it. After all, making a £50 loss on a day is a lot better for cash flow than standing the wagon. Yes you will save £100 on diesel but you still have to pay the driver, you still have either lease payments or depreciation to factor in. Better to work to a £50 loss than stand it to a £150 loss.
Yes but a new start CANNOT ignore a 5yr old truck that has prob been maintained under R+M for £6k!!!
I’m working on the theory that some of these big firms now will chop in trucks NOT due to lack of work but lack of DRIVERS!!!
Therefore a new start O/D is on “win/win” cheap trucks on market and hopefully plenty of sensible paying work!!! 
Interesting reading, im almost dead set on starting with a cheap “throw away” truck which in case of a big repair needed can be scrapped and replaced.
Im also not into working at a loss. Never say never but i would rather stay at home, then leaving the house knowing iv already lost money.