New CE course etc could be around £4k

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

I spoke to one training provider today (I will not reveal who this was so do not ask) who are proposing to do the new CE course when is comes in to a 9 day course

The idea is to do a 4 day C course with no test followed immediately by a 5 day CE course with test on day 5
Part of that thinking is that if the trainee is deemed not capable of doing CE then the test can be changed from CE to C with a partial refund for not doing the CE part

The cost of this is expected to be between £3k to £3.5k

With all the other costs involved that would mean a cost about £4k and certainly over that if a retest was needed

I also spoke to another provider and both providers made this comment - we do not think that the current generation is as capable of going from car to CE as previous generations were for various reasons

It will be interesting to find out how other training schools will be doing this when the time comes at some point this autumn …

2

That’s my 2 months wages working 6-7 days a week, due to being the only person providing for my family I’m lucky if I save 50 quid a month. Kind of hard to believe 100k people can afford 4k course. I wonder how many people with such savings are trucker wannabes and how many people with no savings is going to risk such loan… the only other option to get CE would be trainee driver job with 2 yrs contract and silly pay… or doing C and then E after some time.

3

It would be classic of this government to come up with a plan that actually makes the issue worse!

4

This one from a local trainer near me…not set in stone but training could look something like this.

A standard course could look like
this:
4 hrs - First lesson in a C vehicle
(rigid).
2 hrs - Module 4 Driver CPC
practical demonstration test at our
depot.
6 hrs - Second lesson in a C vehicle
(rigid).
4 hrs - First lesson in a C+E vehicle
(artic or rigid and drawbar
trailer).
2 hrs - Extra trailer reversing and
uncoupling lesson.
2 hrs - Part 1 off-road test at our
depot.
8 hrs - On road C+E driving lesson.
5 hrs - On road C+E driving test at
the DVSA test centre.
This is a 33 hour course spread over
7 different days and would likely
cost £3,000 for the all in package,
which includes medical, 3 theory
tests, 3 practical tests, all the
training, and all the VAT.

Remember, this is all hypothetical
So for those of you who already done the Cat C, class it as if you’ve payed half of training already

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5

MacIsDoneWithBuses:
That’s my 2 months wages working 6-7 days a week, due to being the only person providing for my family I’m lucky if I save 50 quid a month. Kind of hard to believe 100k people can afford 4k course. I wonder how many people with such savings are trucker wannabes and how many people with no savings is going to risk such loan… the only other option to get CE would be trainee driver job with 2 yrs contract and silly pay… or doing C and then E after some time.

Affordability has always been one of the main barriers to entry into the industry unfortunately.
Those who earn enough to be able to train as a driver have little incentive to do so, as it is unlikely they will earn more than they currently do, while those who want to train are often unable to afford to.

There has almost never, certainly before this current driver shortage, been any government assistance for anyone looking to get their licences, so your options were either to save or borrow the money.

This was one of the good things about having two separate courses and tests as, while the total cost of going from car to artic would be higher by doing two separate courses, you were able to do them individually, therefore separating the costs and making it more manageable.

It meant that instead of having to save £4000, possibly more to cover any failures, you could save only half that amount, get a Class C licence and try to find work with that.
This allowed people the opportunity to earn an average salary of about £25k a year, possibly already more than in their previous career (I know it certainly was for me), making it easier to save for class 1, or even possibly finding an employer who would pay to put them through it once they have got their foot in the door.

Sadly, this is, in my opinion at least, only going to make it harder to attract people, especially younger people, into the industry

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6

Yes, that’s the kind of thing I’d expected we’d be hearing, and I totally agree with the statement that today’s car driver would be incapable of jumping straight to C+E, so many basic rules of the road get ignored on a daily basis - my personal pet hate is the way some people do not understand how to join the main carriageway from a sliproad.

7

Another idea might be to do 1 hour in just the unit on day 1 then hitch up to a 20 foot trailer for days 1 + 2 then changing to a 40+ foot trailer for the remainder of the course
The 20 foot trailer would cost less than a rigid when not in use

Might be a daft idea …

8

we do not think that the current generation is as capable of going from car to CE as previous generations were for various reasons

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that comment! :laughing: :smiling_imp:

9

ROG:
Another idea might be to do 1 hour in just the unit on day 1 then hitch up to a 20 foot trailer for days 1 + 2 then changing to a 40+ foot trailer for the remainder of the course
The 20 foot trailer would cost less than a rigid when not in use

Might be a daft idea …

I think there is a risk that if you make too many graduated changes, you never get used to anything. Yes, trucks are bigger than cars, but if you can’t handle a 20 ft trailer, why would it matter vs. going straight to 40 ft?

Part of the problem with modern society is we are not prepared to tell people they ■■■■, and conversely, people are not prepared to put in the effort required to do something properly, so we end up with this crazy situation of making things easier to accomodate people who are too lazy.

I say throw them in the deep end, and if they end up washing out, tough.

At some point, the training wheels have got to come off, and people need to get serious about what they’re doing. I see too often in many areas that we never ever get past the basics, and progress stagnates because of it.

10

Terry Cooksey:

MacIsDoneWithBuses:
That’s my 2 months wages working 6-7 days a week, due to being the only person providing for my family I’m lucky if I save 50 quid a month. Kind of hard to believe 100k people can afford 4k course. I wonder how many people with such savings are trucker wannabes and how many people with no savings is going to risk such loan… the only other option to get CE would be trainee driver job with 2 yrs contract and silly pay… or doing C and then E after some time.

Affordability has always been one of the main barriers to entry into the industry unfortunately.
Those who earn enough to be able to train as a driver have little incentive to do so, as it is unlikely they will earn more than they currently do, while those who want to train are often unable to afford to.

There has almost never, certainly before this current driver shortage, been any government assistance for anyone looking to get their licences, so your options were either to save or borrow the money.

This was one of the good things about having two separate courses and tests as, while the total cost of going from car to artic would be higher by doing two separate courses, you were able to do them individually, therefore separating the costs and making it more manageable.

It meant that instead of having to save £4000, possibly more to cover any failures, you could save only half that amount, get a Class C licence and try to find work with that.
This allowed people the opportunity to earn an average salary of about £25k a year, possibly already more than in their previous career (I know it certainly was for me), making it easier to save for class 1, or even possibly finding an employer who would pay to put them through it once they have got their foot in the door.

Sadly, this is, in my opinion at least, only going to make it harder to attract people, especially younger people, into the industry

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  1. If you’re young enough I would call it an investment as you should always be able to earn money and get a job with a licence.

  2. If you can, do it now, its one of those things that will never get cheaper only dearer.

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11

TruckerGuy:

we do not think that the current generation is as capable of going from car to CE as previous generations were for various reasons

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that comment! :laughing: :smiling_imp:

I just report on what I get from those who have been doing the training for many years

I have noticed that the general standard of driving is now much poorer than it was 20 or 30 years ago

12

Big dude on tiktok doing it for £2.5k
6hrs in a rigid then the rest in an artic.
4 days training with test on 5th day i think he said
Free retest if you fail

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13

we do not think that the current generation is as capable of going from car to CE as previous generations were for various reasons

OMG! How patronising is that!! There has always been a few candidates whose career choice has been questionable. But that sweeping generalisation beggars belief IMO.

Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

14

Thats a very reassuring estimate/plan from that training provider Rog, similar to when i took my straight to class 1 back in '76.

Time to teach some proper vehicle control and handling, and time for some realistic real world maneuvering instruction and practice.

It will be interesting to see how the feedback from employers and the drivers themselves fare with thoroughly trained new drivers (9 days) compares with those from a compressed cheaper (assuming you pass first time) package packed into 5 days.
It was fairly obvious looking at things sensibly that the course should be around the time taken for the combined 2 courses currently required, and would therefore cost a similar amount to the two separate courses/tests.

One can see how that quoted sentence that annoyed PeteS reads could be misconstrued, i’m sure it wasn’t meant in any way to be patronising or insulting, simply that so many drivers (me included) who went straight to class 1 had spent several previous years and possibly hundreds of thousands of miles driving large vans and 7.5 ton lorries over long typically lorry driving days, often without power steering, often with not the most pleasant manual (albeit it 4 or 5 gears) gearboxes, so were well used to handling at least wide if not long air braked vehicles and had years of clunky manual gearbox usage under their belts.
Even cars of those days needed a lot more handling and control than modern cars do if you were to keep them on the road.

Its not patronising or such to mention these things, its just how things were, not necessarily better either.

15

Back in 1988 when I did my then HGV class 1 (now CE) I was doing 2 to 1 over 7 days with test on day 7 with a guy about my age called Rob
Rob had no previous experience of lorries
I had been night yard shunting for a year and been driving 7.5s for a few years
Rob had virtually all the reversing time because I did not need it
I passed first time and Rob … failed on the reverse :blush:
We used a ford unit with straight 6 speed box and a 30 foot flatbed trailer