Hi All,
Just spent a couple of hours trying to positively identify my Karrier Bantam through photos plastered all over the web’
THINK, may have it reduced to a narrower margin but need a bit of input from you blokes.
IF, the people who post photos on websites can be relied on, along with the actual snaps, somebody occasionally puts up a build date, so here goes.
Between the years of 1961 and 1965 are what I believe are the crucial years for mine.
SUPPOSED to be Karrier Bantam “F” or possibly “FA” series.
One piece windscreen introduced in 1961 ■■?
“Karrier” badge removed from above grille but below radiator filler, Chrome lettering “Karrier” introduced 1965■■?
Between the years of 1961 and 1965, STILL had the fold up crankhandle fitted■■?
Between years 1961 and 1965 STILL had the “flat” headlight surrounds, recessed into the grille, i.e. not on a nacelle protruding outwards from the front.
Have added a snap so you may be able to help me narrow it down.
The Karrier Bantam in the process of being refurbished.
Thanks, Dave6418
Dave6418:
0Hi All,
Just spent a couple of hours trying to positively identify my Karrier Bantam through photos plastered all over the web’
THINK, may have it reduced to a narrower margin but need a bit of input from you blokes.
IF, the people who post photos on websites can be relied on, along with the actual snaps, somebody occasionally puts up a build date, so here goes.
Between the years of 1961 and 1965 are what I believe are the crucial years for mine.
SUPPOSED to be Karrier Bantam “F” or possibly “FA” series.
One piece windscreen introduced in 1961 ■■?
“Karrier” badge removed from above grille but below radiator filler, Chrome lettering “Karrier” introduced 1965■■?
Between the years of 1961 and 1965, STILL had the fold up crankhandle fitted■■?
Between years 1961 and 1965 STILL had the “flat” headlight surrounds, recessed into the grille, i.e. not on a nacelle protruding outwards from the front.
Have added a snap so you may be able to help me narrow it down.
The Karrier Bantam in the process of being refurbished.
Thanks, Dave6418
Is that the original rego, Dave? That plate would be from the late mid 60s. XP Falcons sported J** lettering. Remember we could have been sent superseded stock, from the Old Dart.
I have a diesel HSE Land Rover, a trim level and engine combination never offered in this country. Ten were sent here as stock, after they were superseded.
Star Down Under.
No, NOT the original rego, been down that path.
Somebody “jacked up” a set of plates many years ago. VicRoads comes up with that rego as being a Nissan Ute.
Dave
I am no help, but just indulging myself with Google
I don’t know how to tell a Bantam from a Gamecock, but I think it was something to do with the design weights. Yours is certainly an early model. They were quite good little trucks, and were popular with small builders and the like. Councils had large fleets of them, as did the “Post Office Telephones " , as it was known at the time. They usually had large crew cabs and box bodies, and were used by teams of linesmen.
Many had petrol engines, and the diesel models had 4 cylinder Perkins engines. You can see the Perkins logo on the grille of a couple of the ones in the pictures, a sort of an " Olympic Rings” affair.
Commer lorries of the day used the same basic cab, and I think that Ford used it also on Military spec vehicles.
Yeah, am aware of all of that, seen those and many more over the past few years
Will put up the only tags I have for this vehicle, on a small alloy plate about 3 inch square pop rivetted to the engine hatch at the passengers lower leg,
Tag reads:- 74A8283,
above it on its own is another tag BLSP KB21588.
BLSP is for British Light Steel Pressings, I know that much, the “KB21588” may have been the pressing # of the cab itself.
As one bloke pointed out, Rootes when they were assembling them here in Australia, (and for NZ) may have bought the cab/chassis 's out dozens at a time and could have either assembled them here from CKD components or made up the “Australian Content” with locally sourced components.
Only other thing I can add is that they were advertised as “Karrier Bantam” over here anyway, NOT as Commer “Karrier Bantam”.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the chassis/build numbers are going to make it hard to track down, as I have been through the hoops with State authorities, archive mobs, both here and in the UK, just about anyone I can think of. All over about a 4 year period.
Must be someone (and I have tried the Commer Club of England) who either knows how to read the tags or knows a bit more about them than I.
It would seem Chrysler were in that much haste shutting them down over here that archives weren’t stored.
They don’t even want to know about the Karrier/Rootes Group.
Thanks, Dave6418
I think that the Gamecock was a physically larger vehicle and usually had the Humber six cylinder petrol engine whereas the Bantam only had a four potter.
Pete.
That Rugby Cement motor is a Gamecock, on 8 stud wheels and the grille is different to the Bantams, the Gamecock was more or less a low-loading Commer QX, aimed mainly at the municipal market where Karriers were popular. IIRC you could spec. a TS3 in a Gamecock as well as Perkins like the one in the picture or as Pete says 6 cylinder petrol. I think the one piece screen appeared in 1959, same time as the Commer QX was face-lifted. Main benefit was that the screen was taller, as taller drivers got stiff necks in the earlier motors ducking to see out. The headlights in pods would have come in 1969-ish when the UK lighting regs. changed and the headlights had to be closer to the outside edge, same reason Land-Rover lights moved from the grille out to the wings.
Bernard
HI Guys,
Thanks for your replies, I am trying to avoid getting Gamecocks, Humber engines, Commers in the mix as it only confuses the issue.
That’s why I was very specific in trying to identify the exact year and series. Also came across references to “Mark V” Karrier Bantams, but
somehow this seems to relate to a lot later model as well. Again, not what I’m after.
OK, looks like the one piece windscreen came out in 1959.
Headlights moved into a “nacelle” in 1969.
SOMEWHERE in between those years several changes came into practice.
“Karrier” badge across the top of the grille removed, raised large Chrome letters used, spelling out the “KARRIER”.
Was told this occurred around 1965.
This MAY help, mine ORIGINALLY came out with a GENERATOR and accompanying voltage regulator (Up under the drivers side dash on a
panel).
Windscreen glass can be dated to 1963, (means nothing with any certainty, as could have been in a bingle and all cab glass replaced!)
Mate has what he believes is a 1963, his has an alternator replacing the generator.(Again, could have always been retro fitted) He also has
the fold up crankhandle in the bottom of the grille, so when were they dropped?
Chassis numbers may not be entirely reliable,if they (Rootes Australia) bought the Karrier Bantams out in either CKD form for the Aus/NZ
market they could possibly have been stamped over here. Going by a couple of ID plates I have access to, some were stamped with tare
weight (mine was blank ex factory) and the prefix was on some of them, 74A or 75A. The drivers handbook I have is very sketchy, really
tells you little more than basic checks. Has NO date stamp and has unrelated (to mine) series prefix numbers like “FA…FB…FBB” which I
think relates more to what engine is covered by that particular handbook, e.g. BMC 0160 diesel, Perkins 4:203 diesel or the Humber 4
banger 2.6 petrol engine.
I had contacted someone from over you way by email quite a few years ago, at first it looked like a good lead, until we woke up that the
archives covered locally (British) assembled and registered vehicles. Any that were sent overseas from England could have been any era as
at the time, the export cabs were shipped out without weights on the tags and it was up to the importing countries to use their own
guidlines as to what they should be set at (GVW).
May help a bit. What would be good is if anyone had any access to old Rootes archives covering EXPORT models/series, if such a thing ever
even did exist.
Thanks again, Dave6418
