Chas:
Carryfast:
I think Chas might just be confusing what he might have been told that was meant in a metaphorical sense and which seperates,the the type of thinking,as I’ve described,which often exists amongst those,especially ex conscripts,who wouldn’t want to remember wartime casualties by taking part in a military type gathering,from those who choose to do so.As happens in todays armed forces, there was an imbalance, a massive imbalance, of support troops against frontline fighting troops. I’m led to believe by the surviving frontline troops that they find it astonishing that anyone who experienced heavy fighting is readily willing & able to don the veterans uniform of Blazer, Beret & a chest full of medals to parade down the High St.
They, not me, describe such ‘veterans’ as potato peelers, wages clerks, ammo box shifters, camp guards, Batmen etc.
What are the numbers of the average turnout at a local war memorial? I appreciate it gets less every year but it was only EVER less than 40% of all the veterans in the area. Historically, the numbers have changed significantly in the years since the 50’s, some years it’s up & some years it’s down. I feel the numbers are affected by the emotional fashions of the time & NOT a true reflection of veterans remembering their fallen comrades.
Carryfast:
In the same way that I think the reference to the idea that things having might have seemed easier than expected in ‘some’ cases during the invasion of France,possibly being a result of fighting between German forces,was probably a result of confused wishful thinking amongst allied forces at the time,than any real possibility of that.Everything which I’ve been told by those who had anything to do with the war at the time was that the German forces of WW2 were probably one of the most formidable,disciplined,fanatical,indoctrinated fighting groups all acting as one,in history.In the case of any of the fighting in Normandy being easier than expected that would more likely have been a result of confusion amongst the German high command as to what was happening and where,and Allied air superiority neutralising the German armoured forces before they had a chance to organise the type of counter attack which they were more than capable of considering their superiority in weaponry on the ground.
I think you’re making the common mistake of bundling the SS in with the Wehrmacht. It was the SS who were the fanatical & indoctrinated, the Wehrmacht were just every day blokes thrust into the madness of war, just like your Grandad.
It’s an oxymoron to think that the German army as a whole were taken by surprise on D Day, it was the very thing that they were prepared & waiting for !
I’ve never read it in my history books, but I’m sure that the Werhmacht had fallen out & turned against the SS prior to D Day.
Firstly I think that in the case of those comments concerning remembrance parades it’s mainly all about the difference in outlook of those who didn’t really want to be involved with military life before or after whatever they were called up for, especially in the case of military action,and even more especially in the case of those who were involved in seeing the horrors of WW2 for example at first hand.IE the conclusion which I reached in that case was that while they always remembered the casualties they just wanted to forget everything about the circumstances of those casualties and their wartime service with good reason.In which case that means/t an obvious contradiction between the format of the remembrance day parades and that view.Which would obviously then make involvement in such remembrance gatherings untenable for them.
It’s also obvious that such parades are more orientated to those who like everything about military life including remembering the casualties caused by war on that military type format and basis.It’s not then surprising that such a difference in view point would also then result in such metaphorical comments directed at those who attend such gatherings by those who wouldn’t want to.Simply because they can’t understand how anyone who ‘was there’ could possibly want to be involved with remembering military casualties on a military basis when all they see is that need to forget everything about war and the militarism that caused the casualties to start with.
That same contradiction then probably applies in the case of the difference between a career professional type based forces as opposed to a conscription based forces.IE two totally different conflicting contradictory ideas which probably explains why there’s no way that the current forces system here could work with national service being in any way part of it’s recruitment policy.
On the subject of the possibility of the German forces fragmenting into opposing factions during the late stages of WW2 in Normandy,although I was too young to be told anything first hand by my grandfather who was involved with that,because he died when I was only months old.I think the situation which took place in Italy where there were very few,if any,large scale Waffen SS forces and from what I heard first hand from my father it’s obvious that the ordinary Werhmacht soldiers were,in general,every bit as fanatical in their outlook and indoctrination in fighting to the absolute bitter end for the ■■■■ cause.
dailymotion.com/video/x125sm … shortfilms