kr79:
He made a living for a few years and didn’t go skint so not a failure.
I don’t think it would be a goer on dragons den but then again I don’t think any haulage business would be.
Did`nt some of them get a bit excited about “Igloo” a few years ago and bought into that ?
And, there was a chancer from the Manchester area who came out with a load of garbage about “green logistics” and they all went ape and piled in…#epicfailure #IIRC
If it sounds too good to be true…
You might be right actualy. Was Pete Osborne ■■■■■■■ in it somewhere ■■?
kr79:
You might be right actualy. Was Pete Osborne ■■■■■■■ in it somewhere ■■?
Not sure about that, the “Igloo” venture was a couple of public school boys IIRC, and the Manc chancer was definitely not Pete Osbourne 
JPM Eco Logistics went pop in 2009…Meaden + Paphitis both suffered five figure losses
Just Google it its the green group he is involved with.
kr79:
Just Google it its the green group he is involved with.
That`s right, based Bawtry way I think…
JPM Eco Crap were based in Oldham, they were running Volvo`s on bio-diesel, those two fell for the patter big style about everybody will be demanding their services because they were “green”…I was surprised about Theo, as he knows his onions with distribution costs ect…
Newmercman said,
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. You need to go out and find the work first and you need to find work that you set the rates for, not work for dictated rates. When you find that work, then you decide which lorry you need, where you need to have a yard, who will do your maintenance etc.
thats one point of view, I’ve never operated like that though as you’re missing a bit out between finding the work and poncing about finding a truck, yard, mechanics, etc the original customer who has been patently waiting has work to shift and has given it to another operator who is already up and running!!!
To add insult to injury they’re probably doing it for less than you were going to get!!
Yes that is true, but what about when you buy a supermegatoptrotterxxl and can’t fit under the loading gantry or find that it’s a ton too heavy to take a full load etc etc.
Thank you all for the additional opinion.
Given recent acquisitions by Turners I do worry slightly about the continued availability of Container work year round. After all, one of the advantages of being diverse is that it gives the wagons on the Sugar Beetham contract work between harvests etc. Anyone else got an opinion on this?
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newmercman:
Yes that is true, but what about when you buy a supermegatoptrotterxxl and can’t fit under the loading gantry or find that it’s a ton too heavy to take a full load etc etc.
Research helps I guess.
It seems to take around six months from applying for an o licence to getting one now. Be hard to talk to someone about work and then turn up 6-9 months later to start.
I guess you could speculate and get the o licence look at finance options so your pretty much ready to go.
Also speaking from experince here who has been promised plenty of work then when you get going get only the odd load or the oh its gone quiet struggling to keep my own motors going story.
You could get started on subbing work and look for better things but that isn’t always going to work
Always a gamble starting a business thoughm
It is a gamble and that’s why you do as much as you can to lower the odds against you.
Personally speaking I wouldn’t entertain the notion of subbing for Maritime or whoever, the rewards do not justify the risks.
However I have owned my own lorries for a number of years, so it’s easy for me to say that I would rather pick up the same money driving somebody else’s lorry and not have any of the hassle.
Now having said that, I also have the benefit of hindsight and I do know the struggles, so there is a lot of merit in what I say. A lot of my opinions come from experience, both good and bad.
I’ve done the weekly payment thing, it was good for one firm, not so good at another, I’ve run on other companies fuel accounts, good and bad again, I’ve jumped in way above my head and bought 4 brand new units and worked on 60 day end of month payment terms which required temporary use of a factoring company (I used my bank) I’ve listened to friends who swear they’re having it off and gone and done the same work only to nearly go skint as it was dreadful work and I’ve picked up some fantastic work by pure luck, so I know the struggles.
I gave up what was probably the best lorry driving job in Britain to buy my first lorry, so I know all about the desire to be an owner driver and I know all about how difficult it is to make it a success and I also know how easy it can all go wrong.
This is why I say what I say and I stand by it. Knowing what I know now, I would sit the CPC and get the O license sorted first, then I would find the work and then I would look for a lorry. I wouldn’t worry about the delay between approaching a potential source of work and putting the lorry on the road, unless the company is a new start up producing something that’s never been made before there will be somebody moving their stuff now, so they’ll survive while you sort yourself out.
You don’t need a single customer either, an odd day here and there for a few different customers will provide plenty of revenue, certainly more than dragging boxes up and down the road for Maritime and within a short space of time you will probably need another lorry or two as you develop the relationship with your customers.
I know what you mean about minimising risk and I’d agree with you on working for the back of the magazine outfits but then again We have loads of ferry trailer hauliers load out of our yard many running late tidy kit and many tell you it’s a waste of time work.
I don’t know if it affects Other industries but if u take home 500 quid a week as a driver I’d want to be putting 850-900 a week in my pocket as an owner driver whereas others will be happy to put a drivers wage in there pocket and will look at a lower rate as acceptable.
No doubt hauliers have argued about low rates since the horse and cart days and still will when diesel engines are consigned to history.
I tutored CPC courses for a few years from 2006 at one of the training schools. The hardest part of the course for candidates, without exception, was getting to grips with costings and business planning. Even if it is planned and the projected costs calculated to the nth degree it is still an inexact science. As someone has already very sensibly stated you must add on a contingency for the unforeseen. For example in our business only yesterday, a trailer tyre blowout on the M40 which took out a mudguard as well. So a call out and probably an unplanned cost of £400 to £450 in total. Oh, we also had another puncture in Manchester, but we were able to go out to that ourselves, but still the cost of a new tyre. It might be another 2 or 3 weeks before we have another puncture, but who knows? If you’re pulling a tall trailer on a windy day in winter will you get you’re budgeted fuel consumption? No you won’t, so a realistic overall fuel consumption in real life with an older vehicle will be nowhere near 10 mpg. One third of our fleet comprises Euro Six trucks, the oldest being 12 months old, but when calculating costs for potential new customer’s work I use 7.5 mpg and hope for 8.0 mpg. The reality is completely different to the theoretical, even though the industry has enjoyed better profitability in the past two years because of lower fuel prices, but fuel prices are volatile at the moment and are currently 9 pence per litre higher than they were at the beginning of this year and I can’t see them going lower in the near future.
kr79:
I know what you mean about minimising risk and I’d agree with you on working for the back of the magazine outfits but then again We have loads of ferry trailer hauliers load out of our yard many running late tidy kit and many tell you it’s a waste of time work.
I don’t know if it affects Other industries but if u take home 500 quid a week as a driver I’d want to be putting 850-900 a week in my pocket as an owner driver whereas others will be happy to put a drivers wage in there pocket and will look at a lower rate as acceptable.
No doubt hauliers have argued about low rates since the horse and cart days and still will when diesel engines are consigned to history.
I learnt a very long time ago to keep my mouth shut when I was on a very good number, I think that`s why you only ever get “its not worth a ■■■■ mate” when you ask another OD about their job
Stanley Mitchell:
kr79:
I know what you mean about minimising risk and I’d agree with you on working for the back of the magazine outfits but then again We have loads of ferry trailer hauliers load out of our yard many running late tidy kit and many tell you it’s a waste of time work.
I don’t know if it affects Other industries but if u take home 500 quid a week as a driver I’d want to be putting 850-900 a week in my pocket as an owner driver whereas others will be happy to put a drivers wage in there pocket and will look at a lower rate as acceptable.
No doubt hauliers have argued about low rates since the horse and cart days and still will when diesel engines are consigned to history.I learnt a very long time ago to keep my mouth shut when I was on a very good number, I think that`s why you only ever get “its not worth a [zb] mate” when you ask another OD about their job
Absolutely, if anybody asks me I always plead poverty, I just wish I was telling porkies…
See what I did there [emoji23] [emoji23]
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I see what you guys are on about. I always planned to own outright and still factor in the cost of a lease, that way I’m saving up for another wagon or an upgrade. My first thoughts were to target £2500 a week.
£500 for me £1000 for fuel £500 for servicing and repairs and £500 for the truck itself, ownership and operating expenses like insurance, tax, etc.
I am planning for expansion and don’t have significant expenses personally. I own my car outright, I don’t have accommodation expenses. I don’t have sky or Netflix or anything like that. My fixed outgoings are my phone and my mobile Internet. With that in mind I can more than get by on a directors salary of £916.67 per month plus nights out and fuel allowance so my staffing costs are about £400 a week not 500. Fuel and AdBlue are averaging about £850 a week so I have a buffer zone there. As for vehicle costs, they are coming in much below the £1000 a week so I have even more wiggle room there.
In actuality, average invoices would be (if I owned the truck I’m driving) around the 1800-2000 mark plus VAT but I only have a few weeks accurate data.
I don’t see how I could hope to get work lined up by going to customers and saying I’m about to buy my first lorry can I shift your gear? Surely I would at least need a delivery date for the wagon to be taken seriously by a distribution manager?
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Please don’t take this the wrong way, but if you spend £1,000 on fuel at a current fuel card price that will buy you approximately 239 gallons, at 8.00 mpg that will give you 1912 miles, so your rate per mile will be £1.31, which irrespective of your other costs will not be sustainable for a maximum weight artic and trailer. You have pitched your fuel costs as 40% of revenue, which is too high.
gingerfold:
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but if you spend £1,000 on fuel at a current fuel card price that will buy you approximately 239 gallons, at 8.00 mpg that will give you 1912 miles, so your rate per mile will be £1.31, which irrespective of your other costs will not be sustainable for a maximum weight artic and trailer. You have pitched your fuel costs as 40% of revenue, which is too high.
That was initial back of the envelope stuff. I’d never dream of going into business on that basis.
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weewulliewinkie:
nsmith I appreciate you are doing all the homework to get you going, but have you found good paying work to make this viable cos you should be doing this long before your anywhere near buying trucks etc etc…something else you should consider, for every costing you figure out you should add 20% again on top of this cos the number of unforeseen things that can ■■■■ up a days/weeks/months work at short notice is unbelievable. your figures may look ok on paper but trust me they will be well out on the actual “doing the business” so make allowances for it before you find out the hard way. EXPECT the UNEXPECTED. you hav,nt mentioned how much PROFIT you have set to aim for as this is the only way your business can thrive and grow and give you a goal to achive, to many past wannabees just buy the truck then go and do subbying from ads out the back of magazines, i.e maritime and suchlike this is the road to failure very quickly. once again I stress to you concentrate on finding good, regular, above average paying work FIRST then set about setting everything up ready to rock an roll. if you dont find a steady stream of income your wasting your time working out what your costs are if you,ve no money coming in to pay them. so before you carry on calculating costs get on the phone, internet, chap doors, cold call, pester potential customers and with some hard work and a good slice of good luck you might just find what you need to get you started. then you can work out exactly what equipment and how much fuel you will need to make that elusive big PROFIT we all seek…anyway i could go on all night about starting a business the proper way in our industry so good luck …and you never know till you,ve tried but do it properly!!!
Before you start, you need to have sufficient funds to cover the unexpected. I am an owner driver and have just fractured my shoulder(not at work). Been off now for 2 weeks and will probably be off for at least another 4 weeks may be 6. This will hurt and I have been doing it for more years than I care to remember!!
surely this nugget is working on a school project■■? could some of you read the post from the start and see how ludicrous it is?..subbing for norfolkline with a leased unit,7 trips a week to load in east Kilbride in morning,run to boat,cross,tip 1 or 2 drops in northern Ireland to Sainsbury stores,run south every Cpl of days for fuel,load cages,back on boat,then back to ek,just barely possible flat to the mat in your 15 assuming you pull your card at the gates before dropping,shunting and loading etc,plus doing a few east kilbride to cairnryan off card shunts with loaded trailers,gave a return for each truck as a gross profit each week of between £120—£150 absolute max…that was allowing for fuel,drivers wages,lease,insurance ect…the trucks were on full maintenance etc,with the only expence being tyres,and damage (of which there was plenty)…obviously tax comes off the weekly gross…nfls rates are all based on similar returns as the ek to Ireland and back daily work is well sought after compared to the English work.hence anyone subbing for nfl,dfds will be flat out lit,on the wire,busy poor men…maritime and all the back page rest will be just as bad…when nfl pay you,then you will be paid short so that you have to chase it the next month,by that time,you will have been paid short again,so you are always chasing the money you have been owed months behind,that way 1…your commited to them,and 2,they keep your money in their bank for longer…those were the exact profits that were being realised 5 years ago on the assumption that you ran to eire and filled up across the border,you wouldn’t have broke even buying fuel in the uk…the op ogic,and questions have to be a windup or a teenagers school project.and seeing as its all pie in the sky dreams for years in the future,then id be taking it all as a load of pish to pass the time. 