Whilst it is good business practice to calculate costs per mile, it is only really viable if all your work is long distance. You can earn £5.00 per mile on local work and still go bust if you don’t do enough mileage. It has only ever been viable for larger companies who can use the economies of scale and run at low margins. If an owner driver tries to compete, he does not stand a chance on those rates. The likes of Maritime, Stobart etc should be ashamed of themselves advertising for people to work for them as o/d’s with the rates on offer. If you take that offer, you are just fodder for them, and you stand a very good chance of getting into some severe financial distress.
Do you really want to get up every morning knowing you have to do the maximum amount of mileage to make any sort of profit? I have worked for Maritime as an o/d and would rather park my truck up than go back and work for them.
If you are still determined to work for them, and you seem to be doing all the right prep, then stack the odds more in your favour, and get yourself a decent truck, a waste licence and an ADR licence too. Then ring Maritime up and say you will work for them on local only. No distance work, and 3 jobs a day.
You would be far better off looking elsewhere for work. A motivated ADR driver on containers will always find work. You would be surprised how many haulage company drivers are not qualified and not happy about late afternoon work. That is where you could step in, and earn some decent money. So ring around medium sized firms in your area and ask if they employ sub-contractors, if it yes, ask about rates and continuity of work. You may surprise yourself.
I’m wondering if we do manage to walk from Europe we’ll see the demise of the cabotage rules that allow foreign trucks to work domestically. Would supply and demand force rates back up?
Shame there’s no solidarity amongst hauliers because if all the subbies stayed at home next week it would screw the likes of Maritime.
If I have read this correctly the desired vehicle is something like a six year old Renault. I can’t see this being covered by an R&M deal so all maintenance is going to be coming out of revenue. Have a look at Harry’s and others’ historic posts about work needed to the vehicle and note the size of the bills. A £1000 plus bill is run of the mill these days. Check up on parts prices and then assume labour will be at the very least a £ for £ match on many jobs, add VAT and then allow three months before you can recover that VAT.
Don’t become focused upon mileage rate, you don’t live your life on a mileage basis, you live it daily, weekly and monthly, so how long can you and the planned business survive with a few tyre and maintenance issues as well as your fuel to pay for if the revenue cheque is late or smaller than expected because of a few slack weeks? A good past post thread to look at for a run of bad luck would be XF Matt’s for a realisation of what goes wrong completely out of the blue.
I.ve spent 10k on repairs on one truck in the last 18 months
Carryfast:
dieseldog999:
then wonder why every time another 2p goes on a litre of derv,100 subbys pull the pin and go bust as that’s always the last straw for the pittance they run at to sink them.if your lucky,you will scrape a living,but 9 out of 10 arnt so lucky in haulage. diesel goes up…several months later,rates go up a tad(but not to scale)…diesel goes down…next day rates plummetAs Harry pointed out at 60p per mile fuel costs are the deal breaker.Probably at anything less than around £1.60 per mile.
On that note it’s anyone’s guess how the figure of £1421 to run 3560 miles was arrived at.
Just me tapping numbers without actually using Google or a calculator to check my facts or figures, but sounds like he’s
Returning 10 mpg ,so 3560 miles, uses 356 gallons
356 gallons mutiplied by 4.5 litres in a gallon? Is about… 1600 litres,
Multiply that by 92 pence per litre? And my bet is that comes out somewhere £1450ish.
That’s prob how he gets his figures.
It’s been ages since I returned those numbers, been on flat bed work pulling 25 tonnes approx 80% of the time. I’m getting 8.9mpg according to the truck. I haven’t actually checked if fuel put in against miles driven equates to the same mpg.
Have you got your Tm cpc yet smith?
I’ve always found trip compute mpg to be more than pen and paper mpg.
That 8.9 is probably nearer 8.5
Hence working the fuel out at 7.5 which leaves room for improvement
Mattwoodtransport:
Just me tapping numbers without actually using Google or a calculator to check my facts or figures, but sounds like he’s
Returning 10 mpg ,so 3560 miles, uses 356 gallons
356 gallons mutiplied by 4.5 litres in a gallon? Is about… 1600 litres,
Multiply that by 92 pence per litre? And my bet is that comes out somewhere £1450ish.
That’s prob how he gets his figures.
It’s been ages since I returned those numbers, been on flat bed work pulling 25 tonnes approx 80% of the time. I’m getting 8.9mpg according to the truck. I haven’t actually checked if fuel put in against miles driven equates to the same mpg.
Have you got your Tm cpc yet smith?
No I don’t have my TM CPC yet, it’s penned in for Q2 2017. As for the MPG figure I am going off how many litres I put in the wagon I’m driving now for the fuel costs. I fill it up at the end of each week without fail so I know the number of litres of fuel and AdBlue used along with the exact milage done.
I know that I won’t see the same returns from anumber older truck that I’m getting good from a Euro6 machine but I’m taking that into account with my thinking. I just can’t think of a better way to get an accurate number than doing it this way.
If I ask someone they will likely tell me their monthly MPG figure but will be unable to tell me how that figure was achieved, pulling concrete for polystyrene on a particular load for example. I have notes of where I go, how long I am there for and how much fuel it takes to get me there so I know everything but what is in the box
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Keep up the good work smith, it’s possibly a bit out of range for you(if I’m correct in thinking your Sheffield), but I did mine with a chap at Nottingham, and although I’ve no way of comparing it to any other study format, I struggle to see how he could’ve improved it. He had his training folder that you could work through whilst at home/truck, plus you could email or call him to discuss each and every section in the folder, with follow up questions, there was also a weekly night school you could attend covering diffent sections each week, plus you could have the three weeks intense daily learning just prior to the exam. They might all (the trainers) do that but it def worked for me.and he tailored the cost to what you wanted to include. I found a few hours whilst sat on the loading bay, plus a couple of hours feed back from him on, work I submitted to him. In the real world you will probably study to pass the exam rather than study to be able to be a TM. Focus on drivers hours, costings, and how to submit an ops licence and you will pass.
I was planning on getting the RHA distance learning kit soon and doing a lot of in cab pretty study before booking a course and following the curriculum. It’s been 15 years since I studied for anything except DCPC modules and the laughable theory test so I wanted to give myself the best possible chance.
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No I don’t have my TM CPC yet,
I know that I won’t see the same returns from anumber older truck that I’m getting good from a Euro6 machine but I’m taking that into account with my thinking. I just can’t think of a better way to get an accurate number than doing it this way.
I have notes of where I go, how long I am there for and how much fuel it takes to get me there so I know everything but what is in the box
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[/quote]
““No I don’t have my TM CPC yet,”” …no surprise there then…why am i thinking this distant future venture is missing the words,banzaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii…and the phrase,shot down in flames,. 
dieseldog999:
No I don’t have my TM CPC yet,I know that I won’t see the same returns from anumber older truck that I’m getting good from a Euro6 machine but I’m taking that into account with my thinking. I just can’t think of a better way to get an accurate number than doing it this way.
I have notes of where I go, how long I am there for and how much fuel it takes to get me there so I know everything but what is in the box
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
““No I don’t have my TM CPC yet,”” …no surprise there then…why am i thinking this distant future venture is missing the words,banzaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii…and the phrase,shot down in flames,. [emoji38]
[/quote]
Because you have much cynicism and little faith?
Serious question Dieseldog. Have I done something to offend you? Are you so embittered about the industry you think everyone is doomed to fail? Or, and this is my current favourite theory, are you trying to throttle the competition at birth?
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The dog is fairly harmless really 
nsmith I appreciate you are doing all the homework to get you going, but have you found good paying work to make this viable cos you should be doing this long before your anywhere near buying trucks etc etc…something else you should consider, for every costing you figure out you should add 20% again on top of this cos the number of unforeseen things that can ■■■■ up a days/weeks/months work at short notice is unbelievable. your figures may look ok on paper but trust me they will be well out on the actual “doing the business” so make allowances for it before you find out the hard way. EXPECT the UNEXPECTED. you hav,nt mentioned how much PROFIT you have set to aim for as this is the only way your business can thrive and grow and give you a goal to achive, to many past wannabees just buy the truck then go and do subbying from ads out the back of magazines, i.e maritime and suchlike this is the road to failure very quickly. once again I stress to you concentrate on finding good, regular, above average paying work FIRST then set about setting everything up ready to rock an roll. if you dont find a steady stream of income your wasting your time working out what your costs are if you,ve no money coming in to pay them. so before you carry on calculating costs get on the phone, internet, chap doors, cold call, pester potential customers and with some hard work and a good slice of good luck you might just find what you need to get you started. then you can work out exactly what equipment and how much fuel you will need to make that elusive big PROFIT we all seek…anyway i could go on all night about starting a business the proper way in our industry so good luck …and you never know till you,ve tried but do it properly!!!
nsmith1180:
dieseldog999:
No I don’t have my TM CPC yet,I know that I won’t see the same returns from anumber older truck that I’m getting good from a Euro6 machine but I’m taking that into account with my thinking. I just can’t think of a better way to get an accurate number than doing it this way.
I have notes of where I go, how long I am there for and how much fuel it takes to get me there so I know everything but what is in the box
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk““No I don’t have my TM CPC yet,”” …no surprise there then…why am i thinking this distant future venture is missing the words,banzaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii…and the phrase,shot down in flames,. [emoji38]
Because you have much cynicism and little faith?
Serious question Dieseldog. Have I done something to offend you? Are you so embittered about the industry you think everyone is doomed to fail? Or, and this is my current favourite theory, are you trying to throttle the competition at birth?
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[/quote]
nope,youve done nothing to offend…nothing personal at all,i just think your entire concept of becoming self employed is ludicrous and you dont seem to be taking advice from those with prior knowledge…ive been there and done that myself,and harry monk would be giving it to you from the educated horses mouth,so cop yurself on and take a reality pill.read the previous post above…then read it again,and again and again till the penny drops…if you had the wherewithall to be able to run bent,then you may make a turn at the penalty for having no life whatsoever,but i doubt you could contemplate being able to wangle that,plus if your face dont fit,you will get the scrapings just enough to pay your way.your intended route to trucking nirvana is doomed the way you are suggestng,but by all means keep us posted in years to come when you actually get round to doing it… 
weewulliewinkie:
nsmith I appreciate you are doing all the homework to get you going, but have you found good paying work to make this viable cos you should be doing this long before your anywhere near buying trucks etc etc…something else you should consider, for every costing you figure out you should add 20% again on top of this cos the number of unforeseen things that can ■■■■ up a days/weeks/months work at short notice is unbelievable. your figures may look ok on paper but trust me they will be well out on the actual “doing the business” so make allowances for it before you find out the hard way. EXPECT the UNEXPECTED. you hav,nt mentioned how much PROFIT you have set to aim for as this is the only way your business can thrive and grow and give you a goal to achive, to many past wannabees just buy the truck then go and do subbying from ads out the back of magazines, i.e maritime and suchlike this is the road to failure very quickly. once again I stress to you concentrate on finding good, regular, above average paying work FIRST then set about setting everything up ready to rock an roll. if you dont find a steady stream of income your wasting your time working out what your costs are if you,ve no money coming in to pay them. so before you carry on calculating costs get on the phone, internet, chap doors, cold call, pester potential customers and with some hard work and a good slice of good luck you might just find what you need to get you started. then you can work out exactly what equipment and how much fuel you will need to make that elusive big PROFIT we all seek…anyway i could go on all night about starting a business the proper way in our industry so good luck …and you never know till you,ve tried but do it properly!!!
Ironically I’ve always taken a more optimistic view in terms of the type of work I’d have taken on in which high profits would have been at the bottom of the list let alone probably unobtainable anyway in the real world.With even the big players mostly having a business plan based on high turnover and small margins.In that environment subbing as an owner driver is arguably realistically more about just being able to pay yourself a decent wage and being your own boss with a choice of work to match.Nothing more.On that note if I’d have been a new start then container work would obviously have needed to be there as an essential part of the mix of work.
However against that are crippling fuel costs which,even at the best most over optimistic calculation of consumption figures v rates,count out any guarantee of even being able to meet that decent wage side of the equation. 
Let alone that issue,among other legislative requirements,stopping the type of business plan which I’d have gone for in the form of the oldest but most reliable durable,simple to maintain,vehicle possible for the least possible outlay in purchase costs and least depreciation.Which logically would have been something along the lines of an old non Euro type import with old school ■■■■■■■ N14 or possibly even Detroit 60 series and Fuller driveline.
The result being the toxic antithesis of the new start owner driver trading environment.Of legislative requirements and fuel costs making the default choice the newest,but relatively less durable,vehicle possible.Requiring the worst case combination of high purchase costs requiring finance,together with high depreciation costs and high potential maintenance costs.With no guarantee that even 8 mpg will be enough to leave much left over at common rates.
As for leasing the dangerously naive idea that it allows anyone to just walk away,if they need to,without massive potential penalty charges was mentioned previously.Which,together with the idea of average fuel consumption based on a figure of 10 mpg,is just silly optimism and enthusiasm over logic.
One piece of advice I will give you is this…
Do not run your lorry on work that pays weekly and/or provides a fuel card. You will end up stuck there until the repo man takes your lorry away.
You need to stay away from anybody that advertises, there’s a reason they need to advertise and it’s not a good reason.
The old saying, there’s no smoke without fire applies to all the Maritime type companies that have a bad reputation, there’s a reason they have the reputation that they have.
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. You need to go out and find the work first and you need to find work that you set the rates for, not work for dictated rates. When you find that work, then you decide which lorry you need, where you need to have a yard, who will do your maintenance etc.
Running around for buttons because you found a reasonably priced lorry that you liked is a recipe for disaster.
newmercman:
One piece of advice I will give you is this…Do not run your lorry on work that pays weekly and/or provides a fuel card. You will end up stuck there until the repo man takes your lorry away.
You need to stay away from anybody that advertises, there’s a reason they need to advertise and it’s not a good reason.
The old saying, there’s no smoke without fire applies to all the Maritime type companies that have a bad reputation, there’s a reason they have the reputation that they have.
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. You need to go out and find the work first and you need to find work that you set the rates for, not work for dictated rates. When you find that work, then you decide which lorry you need, where you need to have a yard, who will do your maintenance etc.
Running around for buttons because you found a reasonably priced lorry that you liked is a recipe for disaster.
Totally agree regarding the fuel cards, you need to be self-sufficient when it comes to these essential bits of kit, you won`t be taken too seriously if you have your arse hanging out your pants from day one
I slightly disagree regarding quick payment, he will need money coming in PDQ, even if its on “tight” margins. There are one or two who pay on 7 days and the rates are fair/better than people realise… [and the money is safe]
The elusive “own work” is pretty difficult to find nowadays, and as a new start will he be taken seriously ?
How many middle managers / logistics director`s are going to risk their neck / reputation on a one man band ?..most have shrunken nut syndrome as it is 
Good luck either way, as you will need it in spades …
I hear you on the cash flow thing, but that too can be a slippery slope, quick payment and low rates often go hand in hand.
I guess it all depends on what you hope to achieve, I was always in it for the money, I’ve had some very nice lorries, but I’m yet to put my name on the door of any of them, I didn’t want the glory (for want of a better word) so my thoughts are always going to reflect that.
If you’re happy enough to make the same as an employed driver, but still be your own boss, then you will have a different view.
It’s horses for courses, there is no magic answer as everybody wants different things from life.
I’m a bit vocal on the owner driver subject, just ask Harry, he and I banged heads many times during his early days as an O/D, not because of what he was doing per se, it was his money after all, but because he had a very string following and his words were being taken as gospel and I didn’t want to see others going down the same route for reasons that Harry himself has confirmed since then.
Fair play to him, he managed to keep his head above water and has scratched the owner driver itch he had, but was it a resounding success from a business point of view?
He made a living for a few years and didn’t go skint so not a failure.
I don’t think it would be a goer on dragons den but then again I don’t think any haulage business would be.