Wheel Nut:
As I understand this, it only applies to the second or other man,in fact that may well be the first driver, but the general reason that people use POA instead of break is because of the way they are paid.
In effect you are saying that the other man who is on POA cannot be on a break. (We know they are virtually the same)
If I am multi manning it makes no difference whether I am sat on the left or the right. I still want paying from start to finish except for my 45 minute compulsory breaks.
There isn’t any real need to use POA when multi manning in my opinion, it is just that the tacho manufacturers forgot to cater for this eventuality.
I’m guessing that the reason only one driver gets the assumed break on Coffeeholics run is because the second person to drive hasn’t done any driving when he goes onto POA, and therefore cannot have a driving break allotted to him.
This is why I’m thinking that perhaps the assumed break is only a driving break, or it could be that it would be allotted if the working time exceeded 6 hours, maybe it’s just the analysis companies way of keeping it simple.
There isn’t any real need to use POA when multi manning in my opinion, it is just that the tacho manufacturers forgot to cater for this eventuality.
There would be other wise youe duty time of 21 hours max doubled manned work not be possible without using POA unless you did less driving
You would be on break like we used to be, the analogue tacho had 2 switches with Bed, Crossed Hammers, and Sliced Box on both mode switches. As for driving multi manned we used to do about 3 hours each and swap over. It was so much easier before they invented this RTD crap
So I am asking if your on POA and the truck is not moving and its double manned would the first 45 minutes count as break
lets say you did not put it on break or couldn’t for this.
If the second driver is sat in the passenger seat next to the driver and not working, the first 45 minutes of POA will count as break, and I would say that is regardless of whether or not the vehicle is moving.
Though to be honest if you was going to be stationary for 45 minutes or more I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to put the tachograph on break.
This is not a VOSA decision and you won’t find it in (EC) 561/2006, but you will find it in Guidance Note 2.
That guidance note is for…
Issue: Recording the travelling time of a driver to a location that is not the usual place for
taking charge or relinquishing of a vehicle in the scope of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006
So I am asking if your on POA and the truck is not moving and its double manned would the first 45 minutes count as break
lets say you did not put it on break or couldn’t for this.
If the second driver is sat in the passenger seat next to the driver and not working, the first 45 minutes of POA will count as break, and I would say that is regardless of whether or not the vehicle is moving.
Though to be honest if you was going to be stationary for 45 minutes or more I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to put the tachograph on break.
This is not a VOSA decision and you won’t find it in (EC) 561/2006, but you will find it in Guidance Note 2.
That guidance note is for…
Issue: Recording the travelling time of a driver to a location that is not the usual place for
taking charge or relinquishing of a vehicle in the scope of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006
How does that relate to Dels question?
With this in Guidance note 2
The third is where a vehicle is manned by more than one driver. When a second crew member
is available for driving when necessary, is sitting next to the driver of the vehicle and is not
actively involved in assisting the driver driving the vehicle, a period of 45 minutes of that
crew member’s ‘period of availability’ can be regarded as ‘break’.
So I am asking if your on POA and the truck is not moving and its double manned would the first 45 minutes count as break
lets say you did not put it on break or couldn’t for this.
If the second driver is sat in the passenger seat next to the driver and not working, the first 45 minutes of POA will count as break, and I would say that is regardless of whether or not the vehicle is moving.
Though to be honest if you was going to be stationary for 45 minutes or more I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to put the tachograph on break.
This is not a VOSA decision and you won’t find it in (EC) 561/2006, but you will find it in Guidance Note 2.
That guidance note is for…
Issue: Recording the travelling time of a driver to a location that is not the usual place for
taking charge or relinquishing of a vehicle in the scope of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006
How does that relate to Dels question?
With this in Guidance note 2
The third is where a vehicle is manned by more than one driver. When a second crew member
is available for driving when necessary, is sitting next to the driver of the vehicle and is not
actively involved in assisting the driver driving the vehicle, a period of 45 minutes of that
crew member’s ‘period of availability’ can be regarded as ‘break’.
Yeah i seen that, i’m still not sure that that guidance is for anything other than what it says, and it mentions…
A driver travelling to a specific place, other than the employer’s operating centre, indicated to
him/her by the employer in order to take over and drive a ‘tachograph vehicle’
Hence, in line with Articles 9(2) and 9(3):
any time spent by a driver travelling to or from a location, which is not the driver’s home or
the employer’s operational centre and where the driver is supposed to take over or to …
and
any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle, which is out of scope of the Regulation, to or
from a location, which is not the driver’s home or the employer’s operational centre a
I’ve no idea of the answer to Delboys question BTW its just that quoting something (as far as i can see) something that does not directly concern it seems a bit odd. If the concencous here is that the guidance does concern it i’m happy to crawl back under my stone
Mike-C:
Yeah i seen that, i’m still not sure that that guidance is for anything other than what it says, and it mentions…
A driver travelling to a specific place, other than the employer’s operating centre, indicated to
him/her by the employer in order to take over and drive a ‘tachograph vehicle’
Hence, in line with Articles 9(2) and 9(3):
any time spent by a driver travelling to or from a location, which is not the driver’s home or
the employer’s operational centre and where the driver is supposed to take over or to …
and
any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle, which is out of scope of the Regulation, to or
from a location, which is not the driver’s home or the employer’s operational centre a
I’ve no idea of the answer to Delboys question BTW its just that quoting something (as far as i can see) something that does not directly concern it seems a bit odd. If the concencous here is that the guidance does concern it i’m happy to crawl back under my stone
I think this passage makes it relevant. The guidance notes were written later to clarify a few things and there are 6 in total.
In the following three cases the time spent travelling can be regarded as ‘rest’ or ‘break’.
Mike-C:
Yeah i seen that, i’m still not sure that that guidance is for anything other than what it says, and it mentions…
A driver travelling to a specific place, other than the employer’s operating centre, indicated to
him/her by the employer in order to take over and drive a ‘tachograph vehicle’
Hence, in line with Articles 9(2) and 9(3):
any time spent by a driver travelling to or from a location, which is not the driver’s home or
the employer’s operational centre and where the driver is supposed to take over or to …
and
any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle, which is out of scope of the Regulation, to or
from a location, which is not the driver’s home or the employer’s operational centre a
I’ve no idea of the answer to Delboys question BTW its just that quoting something (as far as i can see) something that does not directly concern it seems a bit odd. If the concencous here is that the guidance does concern it i’m happy to crawl back under my stone
I think this passage makes it relevant. The guidance notes were written later to clarify a few things and there are 6 in total.
In the following three cases the time spent travelling can be regarded as ‘rest’ or ‘break’.
So I am asking if your on POA and the truck is not moving and its double manned would the first 45 minutes count as break
lets say you did not put it on break or couldn’t for this.
If the second driver is sat in the passenger seat next to the driver and not working, the first 45 minutes of POA will count as break, and I would say that is regardless of whether or not the vehicle is moving.
Though to be honest if you was going to be stationary for 45 minutes or more I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to put the tachograph on break.
This is not a VOSA decision and you won’t find it in (EC) 561/2006, but you will find it in Guidance Note 2.
That guidance note is for…
Issue: Recording the travelling time of a driver to a location that is not the usual place for
taking charge or relinquishing of a vehicle in the scope of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006
How does that relate to Dels question?
When you’re a second driver and sat in the passenger seat of a multi-manned vehicle you are travelling to a place where you will take charge of the vehicle, or travelling from a place where you had charge of the vehicle, therefore the guide showing the ways that the travelling time will not count as other work (as travelling time usually does) is relevant to Dels question.
We currently work our trunks as a double manned operation, and our software for the tacho’s is set up to record p.o.a as break but i am still reciving WTD 6hr rule infringements.
Do my drivers still need to take a 30min break for the 6hr rule■■?
I ask because if the first 45mins of poa is classed as a break wouldnt this clear your clock to start a fresh regarding breaks??
