Left hand down!:
Big Jase:
You do realise that the signs were not put up to put safety messages on? They were installed to warn others but while sat dormant, campaigns are out in them.What really makes me chuckle is that you’re all noticing the signs and their “pointless messages” yet i hardly ever see drivers obeying then when a lane is closed or there is debris. The irony.
Debris in road messages start on the matrix boards approximately 10 miles before the debris, by which point people have got bored and focused their attention on something else, ignoring the numerous repeater signs as yet more instances of ‘crying wolf’. Same goes for lane closures, especially on managed motorways. Why is it necessary to have 40s and 30s from 10 miles out then red x’s above the closed lanes 9 miles before there’s even any sign of cones? You can’t blame the drivers for ignoring them when they’re deliberately set to cause as much frustration and disruption as possible. 1 mile before the cones would be perfectly adequate, in line with the physical lane closure boards put out by the cone company.
Ok, it has been explained hundreds of times before but obviously the message isn’t getting through. I’m sure you have noticed the big blue signs that are fixed every 500 metres and say M25 A 123.4? Well these were installed at great cost with an idea that you can’t see the the small marker posts at speed nor if you are in lane 2 or 3. So, you spot debris in lane 3 and call HAIL or 999. They ask you for the location and you say “Well I’m some where between 13 and 14, I know that as I get on at 13” Due to the fact we now know about it, we HAVE to try and protect our customers YOU, by giving you as much warning as possible so set signals between the 2 junctions. The HA are getting enough grief over this Taunton job as we didn’t tell people there was fog yet when we put signs on they’re ignored and we get slated for putting them up. If you note the closest marker board and then call, we will only set what is required.
As you are all pro drivers, you would know that some junctions are miles apart and you would also know that there are plenty of signs that will come on. Until the old bill or us have gone through to check there is something or nothing, they have to stay on. I got a mouth full only last week from a guy who had followed a diversion that allegedly bought him back to the same place. I drove the diversion and there were 10 signs telling him the way to go.
We all know that the signs are only advisory (Except MM) but rest assured, in my region they are ONLY ever on for real reasons. Case in point, on Tuesday I had 4 calls to debris and the only bit I found was a tiny piece of wood from one of those jobs. There is countless cctv footage of drivers ignoring our signs and signals and coming unstuck and either driving over debris, into closures or down closed roads. At the top of slip roads sometimes there are matrix signs and when the road is closed but we haven’t got there yet, they set a wicket with a red bar on the top. You MUST NOT pass that but when you do and you join a queue, don’t blame us (Like many do). Then when we do rearward relief to cleare that trapped traffic, we get grief for not telling you.
As far as the M6 story goes, we rely on our road working teams to call us when they are about to start to fit out or remove roadworks. The TCSO isn’t often on scene so once the large TM trucks leave a job, there will always be a delay in the time it takes for them to call the TCSO, the TCSO to be satisfied and then ring the respective RCC to cancel the signs. Sadly, you just happen to have driven through at that point.
Again, nothing is done just for fun or to peeeace you off, there is a reason behind everything we do.
Big Jase:
As far as the M6 story goes, we rely on our road working teams to call us when they are about to start to fit out or remove roadworks. The TCSO isn’t often on scene so once the large TM trucks leave a job, there will always be a delay in the time it takes for them to call the TCSO, the TCSO to be satisfied and then ring the respective RCC to cancel the signs. Sadly, you just happen to have driven through at that point.Again, nothing is done just for fun or to peeeace you off, there is a reason behind everything we do.
On a normal motorway yes I would imagine you rely on an all clear from the road working teams, however the section in the M6 story is a managed motorway and covered by cctv and I would hope they are quicker at reacting to situations than they were that day,after all when the hard shoulder becomes a live lane it needs a red cross very quick with a broken down vehicle.
Can you imagine loading a truck off a loading dock and it looks to the driver like you have finished so he drives off? It can’t be assumed that you have finished. You have safety systems, salvo locks, no keys etc etc, the Rcc may have 30+ sets of roadworks going in at once and don’t sit and watch 30+ 6 mile stretches waiting for them to finish and even if it looks like they have gone, the guys go back around after removing tapers to collect the 800, 600, 400, 200 boards.
Secondly, there are Midas loops in the road on mm sections that trigger alarms if traffic slows so they are alerted.
Big Jase:
Can you imagine loading a truck off a loading dock and it looks to the driver like you have finished so he drives off? It can’t be assumed that you have finished. You have safety systems, salvo locks, no keys etc etc, the Rcc may have 30+ sets of roadworks going in at once and don’t sit and watch 30+ 6 mile stretches waiting for them to finish and even if it looks like they have gone, the guys go back around after removing tapers to collect the 800, 600, 400, 200 boards.Secondly, there are Midas loops in the road on mm sections that trigger alarms if traffic slows so they are alerted.
So in actual fact after 2 years of disruptions, endless millions of pounds creating managed motorways, there is no advantage in the time it takes to adjust the signs, guess I’ll be keeping off the shoulder when it suggest’s you can use it.
Trev_H:
Big Jase:
Can you imagine loading a truck off a loading dock and it looks to the driver like you have finished so he drives off? It can’t be assumed that you have finished. You have safety systems, salvo locks, no keys etc etc, the Rcc may have 30+ sets of roadworks going in at once and don’t sit and watch 30+ 6 mile stretches waiting for them to finish and even if it looks like they have gone, the guys go back around after removing tapers to collect the 800, 600, 400, 200 boards.Secondly, there are Midas loops in the road on mm sections that trigger alarms if traffic slows so they are alerted.
So in actual fact after 2 years of disruptions, endless millions of pounds creating managed motorways, there is no advantage in the time it takes to adjust the signs, guess I’ll be keeping off the shoulder when it suggest’s you can use it.
By fooooooook Trev you are a numpty, you get 25% extra running lanes when there are no incidents, probably 97% of the time, yet you are tooooo stupid to use it with your eyes open and prepared to drive PROPERLY according to conditions just in case you weren’t told there may be a problem.
Maybe it’s time tooooo hand the license in 
I don’t mind drivers not wanting to use the live hard shoulder.
I sometimes wonder if they don’t use it because they can’t understand English or they’re just plain dumb. Either way it’s nice to have a lane to myself with a clear view of 1/2 mile in front of me while they’re all still reading the truck in fronts sign writing.
Trev_H:
Big Jase:
Can you imagine loading a truck off a loading dock and it looks to the driver like you have finished so he drives off? It can’t be assumed that you have finished. You have safety systems, salvo locks, no keys etc etc, the Rcc may have 30+ sets of roadworks going in at once and don’t sit and watch 30+ 6 mile stretches waiting for them to finish and even if it looks like they have gone, the guys go back around after removing tapers to collect the 800, 600, 400, 200 boards.Secondly, there are Midas loops in the road on mm sections that trigger alarms if traffic slows so they are alerted.
So in actual fact after 2 years of disruptions, endless millions of pounds creating managed motorways, there is no advantage in the time it takes to adjust the signs, guess I’ll be keeping off the shoulder when it suggest’s you can use it.
Actually, Trev makes a valid point here. If the signs are so frequently wrong, and so slow to adjust to the prevailing road conditions, why should we be so ready to trust them when they say it’s ok to use the hard shoulder? And aside from that, it does seem a little pointless spending all that money on creating managed motorways if at the end of it all, the signs are no quicker to adjust than they used to be.
speedyguy:
Trev_H:
Big Jase:
Can you imagine loading a truck off a loading dock and it looks to the driver like you have finished so he drives off? It can’t be assumed that you have finished. You have safety systems, salvo locks, no keys etc etc, the Rcc may have 30+ sets of roadworks going in at once and don’t sit and watch 30+ 6 mile stretches waiting for them to finish and even if it looks like they have gone, the guys go back around after removing tapers to collect the 800, 600, 400, 200 boards.Secondly, there are Midas loops in the road on mm sections that trigger alarms if traffic slows so they are alerted.
So in actual fact after 2 years of disruptions, endless millions of pounds creating managed motorways, there is no advantage in the time it takes to adjust the signs, guess I’ll be keeping off the shoulder when it suggest’s you can use it.
By fooooooook Trev you are a numpty, you get 25% extra running lanes when there are no incidents, probably 97% of the time, yet you are tooooo stupid to use it with your eyes open and prepared to drive PROPERLY according to conditions just in case you weren’t told there may be a problem.
Maybe it’s time tooooo hand the license in
Trev makes a good point. Perhaps instead of having a go at him you could get your own house in order first by actually utilising your new fangled managed motorway sections as they were intended, ie. switching on the h/s lane when the traffic flow is heavy and starting to back up. So many times the M62 between 26 and 27 is down to about 30-40mph of a morning, yet the h/s remains red-X’d. And no it’s not because there is some “incident” in it, it is clear for the entire length. If we’re lucky the gantry 200 yards before the “hard shoulder ends” sign at J27 may have a speed limit posted so we can use it, but by then it’s too late as you’ve already been through the queue.
The whole thing should be scrapped including the HA and all the muppets within.
Gotta agree with speedyguy. The rule of the road is keep left except when overtaking or signs says otherwise. If the signs say congestion use hard shoulder, why wouldn’t you. Yes we spent millions on the fandangled motorways only for you to be unprofessional and leave the lane empty thus deifying the object of it and forcing people to undertake you if they so choose and by not using the hard shoulder ultimately ends up causing congestion.
I had an angry text from my mate a while back, “why isn’t the hard shoulder being used, there’s massive queues”. Of course I had to explain to him that it was foggy and the CCTV couldn’t see the lanes and it couldn’t be confirmed it was clear nor if a car broke down in it whilst it was running. Quite why I had to explain that is beyond me.
There are glitches in the system and it does have it’s Achilles heel but as do many drivers. It’s a good system and it does work, and as was said above, I often have an empty lane as no one can read the million pound state of the art sign saying USE HARD SHOULDER but then that’s just stooopid people.
I’m not against the use of the hard sholder to ease congestion but yesterday I was coming north on the M6 and the hard shoulder was signed as being active due to congestion. So like a good boy I used the hard shoulder between 5 and 6 northbound untill the sign that say ‘hard shoulder for J6 only’ then got back into lane 1/granny lane/slow lane/the one the trucks use a lot etc.
No real problems moved over when there was a gap large enough for me not to affect traffic flow.
Then after J6 traffic eased and matrix signs where off which I presume means the hard shoulder is not live. Unfortunately lots of cars thought they could still use the hard shoulder so even though the matrix signs showed nothing cars where still on it- in fact even after J9 they where on it and as I needed to get off at juncton 10 it was a little tricky to find a gap so went for the usual indicate early to inform the traffic flying up my nearside at 60 - 70mph what I would like to do.
Massive thanks to the black BMW that flashed me in although his options where lets say slightly limited.
So would it be possible to have a matrix sign thats says:
‘ONLY USE HARD SHOULDER WHEN MY MATES TELL YOU TO, NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE USED IT BEFORE, THAT MEANS YOU KNOB JOCKEY’
Probably need a bigger sign for this but sure those paid the big bucks can slim it down a bit.
Also whilst using the hard shoulder I noticed a fair bit of litter could we have a sign to warn people about debris on the hard shoulder- crisp packets aren’t a problem really but bits of wood, ratchet straps, bits of tyres, peasants (as in birds not local brummys) can be a little tricky to navgate.
Howabout them crows as well aren’t they great, such total awareness of their surroundings and ultra fast reactions that they can have a snack on a bit of road kill between vehicles, quite impressive really.
^ Much of that problem would be solved if the thick HA ■■■■■ bothered to press the red-X button on their computer for the h/s lane when it’s not in use. Pretty much all of the managed motorway sections only show the red-X when the lane is physically closed by cones for roadworks, for example.
Left hand down!:
^ Much of that problem would be solved if the thick HA [zb] bothered to press the red-X button on their computer for the h/s lane when it’s not in use. Pretty much all of the managed motorway sections only show the red-X when the lane is physically closed by cones for roadworks, for example.
LHD those arguments/discussions are like a game of ping pong within the HA.
Off is the default safety system in case of technology failure, lane is closed unless it says open.
If the signs are not on it’s closed or their broke,
If it was permanently hard shoulder running and the technology went down there is no safety system to put in place, when it goes t!ts up.
I’m a desk jockey at the moment but the amout of times me and others have stood in live lanes and been told “signals not working” was frequent.
Remember they’re working with signals and very long bits of wire up to 50 years old if the cable thieves haven’t had it away.
No system is perfect they do it as best and as safely as they can.
speedyguy:
Left hand down!:
^ Much of that problem would be solved if the thick HA [zb] bothered to press the red-X button on their computer for the h/s lane when it’s not in use. Pretty much all of the managed motorway sections only show the red-X when the lane is physically closed by cones for roadworks, for example.LHD those arguments/discussions are like a game of ping pong within the HA.
Off is the default safety system in case of technology failure, lane is closed unless it says open.
If the signs are not on it’s closed or their broke,
If it was permanently hard shoulder running and the technology went down there is no safety system to put in place, when it goes t!ts up.
I’m a desk jockey at the moment but the amout of times me and others have stood in live lanes and been told “signals not working” was frequent.
Remember they’re working with signals and very long bits of wire up to 50 years old if the cable thieves haven’t had it away.No system is perfect they do it as best and as safely as they can.
Well the answer to that is to scrap the whole system then as it’s clearly not fit for purpose. It amazes me how you and that other HA muppet always jump straight in on any such thread automatically defending the HA and your gold-plated jobs-for-the-boys but when you wipe away all your bull ■■■■ it’s perfectly clear that these new multi-million pound systems are in fact quite the opposite and very broken with more flaws and holes in them than a kitchen colander.
The use of hard shoulder process works quite well for those who know how it works i.e. Sign on OK sign off or red cross= not OK
But there is a very real issue for those who don’t use the motorways often that will not be aware of how the sytems works, maybe a bit more public awareness is needed to protect those that don’t use the motorway network all the time or the lets say hard of thinking.
Most of us on this forum can use a motorway with our eyes shut (although not advisable) there are those that are nervous about the motorways or only use it a few times a year. It these that will represent a danger to themsleves and others by not being fully aware of how this system works or was designed to work.
Oh and can we also have a 7.5t weight limit restriction on the middle/2nd/sandwich lane in roadworks, these buggers that can’t go at 49.5mph without having to overtake get on my ■■■■. Bloke yesterday was so close I could almost read the text he was sending.
The one before membury serv’s e/bound on the M4 nearly always says queue ahead even in the early hours in the morning when you can see clearly that there isn’t one 
Yet you still get muppets slamming on the brakes when it’s clear ahead.
Oh LHD, you are referring to me as a muppet? How nice. There’s no gold plated job pal, nor gold plated pension. It isn’t all rosy. We get soaking wet, abuse, get driven at, our cones hit that fire at us, spat at, punched, ignored, the list goes on, and bizarrely we do it all for you drivers as there isn’t any other reason to do it.
The old systems are old, they’re often damaged and parts get stolen and costs a fortune to maintain, a budget that has been cut back and cut back. You moan enough about the cost of new signs, you want us to spend more fixing up all the old ones that you ignore anyway?
Thetaff2:
The one before membury serv’s e/bound on the M4 nearly always says queue ahead even in the early hours in the morning when you can see clearly that there isn’t oneYet you still get muppets slamming on the brakes when it’s clear ahead.
Ah well, thetaff2, what it is, right, is the Motorway MIDAS Loop system. Have I told you about that? No? Well, here’s how it works… :yawn:
Thetaff2:
The one before membury serv’s e/bound on the M4 nearly always says queue ahead even in the early hours in the morning when you can see clearly that there isn’t oneYet you still get muppets slamming on the brakes when it’s clear ahead.
Have you reported it by chance? 0345 123 5000. It’s within your free minutes allowance and will prevent people slamming on their brakes when it’s clear ahead.
Have I told you about the Midas loops, well here goes,
Big Jase:
Oh LHD, you are referring to me as a muppet? How nice. There’s no gold plated job pal, nor gold plated pension. It isn’t all rosy. We get soaking wet, abuse, get driven at, our cones hit that fire at us, spat at, punched, ignored, the list goes on, and bizarrely we do it all for you drivers as there isn’t any other reason to do it.The old systems are old, they’re often damaged and parts get stolen and costs a fortune to maintain, a budget that has been cut back and cut back. You moan enough about the cost of new signs, you want us to spend more fixing up all the old ones that you ignore anyway?
No. I don’t want you to spend 1 single penny more on your pointless traffic management systems. They don’t do ■■■■ because they have been so poorly executed. You’ve admitted that the infrastructure and funds simply are not there in order for them to do the job they were intended to do so scrap the whole lot, remove the 10,000 miles of 50mph average camera roadworks where they are currently installing them at 1 inch per day and the also pointless concrete walls where the metal barriers sufficed just fine 99% of the time and spend the money instead on tarmac to throw in the ever increasing number of craters appearing in the carriageways. The “lost” time from having to sit in a bit of traffic around the town centre junctions will be balanced out by the saved time from not having to sit at 40mph behind a Micra for 25 miles between Sheffield and Tibshelf on the M1 and at least the pothole filling duties are done by only coning off small sections as needed, not installing 50mph average speed cameras for the next 3.5 years (A1 Leeming to Scotch Corner anyone? “Road works until September 2017” ).