With regard to Iggy’s comment on tyre changes, i’ve been thinking of posting this subject since january so here goes.
Unless the lane needs to be closed for a Rota lift, should all offside tyre changes be a no no, which is the view taken by some police forces to keep the traffic flowing.
Would you take any notice of a lane closure at night on a dark motorway on a sweeping left bend with central reserve matrix only, while someone tries to close a lane.
There are pictures somewhere of the truck that ploughed through a closure on the M6 in lancashire, in a fully lit vms’ed up motorway and wiped the patrol car into the truck having a wheel changed while the hato’s pulled the tyre guy clear.
Luckily no one was injured, should it have been rota’d.
Would you be pepared to pay say £500 so save a queue/a life ?
had that happen to me when i was mobile fitter a few times…there was a pic about a short time ago of a truck that hit a tyre van and squashed the van and the driver…i prefered a lane to be closed while doing any tyre changes on duel carrageways…but i bet any manager will soon say we aint paying extra for offside tyre changes
margins in transport are crap, and additional cost to change an offside tyre could eat away the profit in the job. That said, recently one of mine had an offside blow out on the trailer and the guy would not change it until HATO coned off lane 1, and in my opinion, there is no way I would attempt to change an off side with traffic blatting by on the limiter
ONly problem I have is when the fitter asks you to stand between lane one and hard shoulder , WTF is that about?. no point in you bith dying is there?.
If the Highways agency give us some faith in the matrix sign system, then if they advised that a tyre change was taking place I think drivers would pull into the middle lane to give room to the tyre fitter.
The problem is, they bput to much crap on those matrix signs and nobody believes half the crap on them.
Also the reason drivers shake their heads is a lane is closed and nobody knows till the last minute, as I said if the matrix sign advised of it in plenty of time no hold ups, safety for the fitter and HATO wouldn’t look like the chumps they are
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Also the reason drivers shake their heads is a lane is closed and nobody knows till the last minute, as I said if the matrix sign advised of it in plenty of time no hold ups, safety for the fitter and HATO wouldn’t look like the chumps they are
How would it lead to no hold up’s ? it’s still 3 into 2 and people sqeezing in at the last.
Advising of incidents too far in advance leads to people having “no faith” in the VMS as you put it, blanket signals are set for an unspecified location i’e the rtc on the M6 i passed Lymm truckstop about 15 mins ago.
tc trans:
margins in transport are crap, and additional cost to change an offside tyre could eat away the profit in the job.
I know i left trucking, but to save you the cost should every other car and the truck delayed have that cost passed to them ? You lose £500 and a wasted day/week profit.
The combined loss of the cars/trucks qeueing passed you is say £50,000.
I will always try and avoid a lane 1 or rota, but why should i spend my time on the hard shoulder arguing with a transport manager sat in an office, as trucks pass 12inch away on the phone,reading the paper etc waiting to drift over the line, it happens too frequently.
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Also the reason drivers shake their heads is a lane is closed and nobody knows till the last minute, as I said if the matrix sign advised of it in plenty of time no hold ups, safety for the fitter and HATO wouldn’t look like the chumps they are
How would it lead to no hold up’s ? it’s still 3 into 2 and people sqeezing in at the last.
Advising of incidents too far in advance leads to people having “no faith” in the VMS as you put it, blanket signals are set for an unspecified location i’e the rtc on the M6 i passed Lymm truckstop about 15 mins ago.
Good idea, but counting the letters, most gantries have a max 24 letters inc spaces so you would need a variation on that message over 3 miles (not including joining slips) which would could possibly lead to longer tailbacks, unless you have a good picture 1 for down south,
Parts of M62,M56, M55,M53 to name a few only have central wickets in most places that’s if they even work.
I think the cost a £million each, so is it worth putting them everwhere for the odd tre change ?
Surely if the vehicle can be rota garaged off by a recovery company,it can be limped off under its own power.If the vehicle is moveable to safer location,we will move it.If the unit has a double blow out on its drive axle,then it cant be lifted and towed anyway. Can it??
Perhaps a recovery bod could confirm.
extrucker:
Surely if the vehicle can be rota garaged off by a recovery company,it can be limped off under its own power.If the vehicle is moveable to safer location,we will move it.If the unit has a double blow out on its drive axle,then it cant be lifted and towed anyway. Can it??
Perhaps a recovery bod could confirm.
If it’s got a front steering tyre blowout,(prob offside), pretty undriveable even for a few yards never mind a limp off, straight heavy recovery with a lift the front end up job, and disconnect prop or whatever it is,
If that’s the way to go to keep traffic moving ?
Every single job is so different and every person is different, not often you come across a tyre fitter, if it’s jacked up who will drop the jack and move it up 5 yards past an armco barrier onto to a solid verge (it’s called thinking about it) to just give an extra couple of foot of space, usually “right lane 1 now” and bollox to you and everyone else.
There are plenty of tyre fitters/recovery guys who ask for a lane 1 even for a nearside, or on a car nearside That’s why every one should be a balanced judgement.
Hato’s are there to make things safer and keep things open and moving, sat with a lane 1 out with an rtc 2 miles away, with no one available is not helping either case.
Ever had a case of a trucker ( or car) not wanting to move out of lane 2 or a live lane at night on an intersection because the tyre is on the rim, and they don’t want it damaging, rather have a multiple pile up instead . i think the option of not moving it was arrest and a night in the cells eventually when BIB arrived after putting everyone at risk for the price of a wheel
speedyguy:
Ever had a case of a trucker ( or car) not wanting to move out of lane 2 or a live lane at night on an intersection because the tyre is on the rim, and they don’t want it damaging, rather have a multiple pile up instead . i think the option of not moving it was arrest and a night in the cells eventually when BIB arrived after putting everyone at risk for the price of a wheel
Is, and always was, under the Highways Act 1959. Wilful Obstruction. Even easier now with SOCA.
As discussed elsewhere, demand the keys and, if they refuse, throw a rope on it and drag it. (assuming a car. )
jammymutt:
ONly problem I have is when the fitter asks you to stand between lane one and hard shoulder , WTF is that about?. no point in you bith dying is there?.
he does that so u can give him a bit of a warning when you got 2 trucks passing each other as both the drivers will be watching there mirrors that little bit more and might not see someone in the roadside…
Saw a very good driver today on the A12 near chelmsford he has a offside tag axle blow out and pulled the pin(He was in a layby)and put the unit onto the grass verge just so the fitter could work safely…
Spardo,a rota garage is a Police contractor recovery operator.On our part of the M1.there are two light recovery operators on Police contracts,so they take it in turns for Police jobs.Some areas only have one contract garage,but are still called rota garage,for some strange reason.
To be fair, most tyre failures nowadays are blowouts, or by the time the driver has noticed that he has got a puncture the tyre is already knackered. So to drag a trailer a few extra yards to a wider part or get a couple of wheels on the kerb or verge is not going to do any more damage.
If it is a front blowout on an alloy rim, then driving it may cause more damage to either body work or rim but some lane closures could be avoided by a little extra thought from the driver.
extrucker:
Spardo,a rota garage is a Police contractor recovery operator.On our part of the M1.there are two light recovery operators on Police contracts,so they take it in turns for Police jobs.Some areas only have one contract garage,but are still called rota garage,for some strange reason.
Thanks mate, should have known that. Many moons ago I was selling cars from a bit of waste land and went down the auctions for some stock. Couldn’t see anything reasonable so bought a Morris Commercial 4x4 reccer for £65, did it up and then got myself on the list. Not really a rota though, which is why on some nights I used to sleep in it outside the police post at Trowell services.
Got plenty of business with cars and motos but, thank goodness, no HGVs although I told them I could pull anything. Could have done too, but stopping may have been a bit of a problem. Fluid brakes, no power except my back braced against the back of the cab with my right leg locked solid and the handbrake full on.
What is the crack with offside tyre changes , are there ‘official’ procedures fitters have to follow when attending one of these .
I ask as I was driving s/b in an e/b direction on m6 near rugby today at about 12ish, just before I approached the rugby turn I could see in the distance flashing yellow lights behind a truck on the hard shoulder, got a bit closer and could see it was some sort of recovery van as I got even closer could see the fitter and driver standing next to the truck while they changed the offside tyre on the trailer, the fitter had put cones around the truck and all seemed safe.
But never the less as I approached I still indicated and pulled into lane 2, so did the truck in front of me. As I have read far to many stories of horror stories of fitters and drivers being injured by passing trucks ,
What was unusual there were no HATO’s this seemed strange as normally when you pass a truck having a o/s tyre change they have coned off lane 1 completely.
So my question to all you wrecker drivers/fitters is or even the HATO’s is your presence compulsory at a o/s tyre change or is it only if the fitter request it if you stumble across it would you cone the lane off even if the fitter didnt request it, not having a pop just asking.
speedyguy:
With regard to Iggy’s comment on tyre changes, i’ve been thinking of posting this subject since january so here goes.
Unless the lane needs to be closed for a Rota lift, should all offside tyre changes be a no no, which is the view taken by some police forces to keep the traffic flowing.
Would you take any notice of a lane closure at night on a dark motorway on a sweeping left bend with central reserve matrix only, while someone tries to close a lane.
There are pictures somewhere of the truck that ploughed through a closure on the M6 in lancashire, in a fully lit vms’ed up motorway and wiped the patrol car into the truck having a wheel changed while the hato’s pulled the tyre guy clear.
Luckily no one was injured, should it have been rota’d.
Would you be pepared to pay say £500 so save a queue/a life ?
Where are these pics?..I’d be interested in seeing them?
Cruise Control:
But never the less as I approached I still indicated and pulled into lane 2, so did the truck in front of me. As I have read far to many stories of horror stories of fitters and drivers being injured by passing trucks ,
Good idea this. Although if you’ve seen the hazard approaching you’re not likely to do any harm by staying in lane 1 when passing recovery personnel at very close proximity, there are going to be other drivers which haven’t seen it because they’re either too close behind you or they’re distracted - and possibly wandering over the hard shoulder as we’ve all seen happen. Moving out into lane 2 in good time will help arouse the attention of a distracted or tailgating driver and help him see the hazard on the hard shoulder ahead, thus hopefully taking avoiding action.
I personally wouldn’t mind if recovery deemed it a good idea to close a lane. Sure, in my position as an hourly paid driver it doesn’t matter much either way providing I keep the boss informed and I do understand the financial implications of this for an owner driver. Keeping the traffic announcements on the radio sometimes helps me find another route if there’s a problem ahead though which can minimise wasted time. If the situation calls for a lane to be closed, that’s fine by me because it can save someones life - and it’s hard to appreciate that until you see someone losing their life on the hard shoulder.
However, I do think a bit of common sense could help matters greatly. If I had an o/s blowout on a narrow section, I’d limp until I could pull half onto the verge if it’s solid enough or even to the next junction if it was close enough. If the tyre’s knackered, you’re not going to need to worry about damaging it further and on motorway standard surfaces, you’re not going to do too much more damage to the rim either. Infact every time I have had a blowout I’ve managed to get myself well out of the way before stopping and waiting for recovery, but I understand that it’s not always possible.
That’s why every one should be a balanced judgement.
. i think the option of not moving it was arrest and a night in the cells eventually when BIB arrived after putting everyone at risk for the price of a wheel 
, are there ‘official’ procedures fitters have to follow when attending one of these 
just asking.