More DCPC training bollocks

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

muckles:
te=“jakethesnake”]This, from a man who claims to be an instructor in all things transport.

You do realise most of these clowns are ex lorry drivers. :wink:

And they have mostly been the worst instructors I’ve had to misfortune of being taught by.
Maybe the old adage of “Those who can do, those who can’t teach” holds true? :wink:
[/quote]

TBF they don’t all talk rubbish, well not all of the time anyway. Last course I was on just outside Aberdeen and the guy not only new his stuff but he had the humour to stop the boredom.
Ex bus driver BTW.

It’s all about whether they have been trained properly and whether they stick to what they have been taught. A bit like so called instructors (lorry drivers…so called instructors) within a company who only teach the way they do things which is generally wrong.

What chance has this industry of ever improving?

62

stevieboy308:

Drempels:
Question dodge :unamused:

Let put it another way:

At work, I am under instruction. On my break, by definition, I must be free to dispose of my time. If I choose to clean my mirrors, that is my decision. I am paid to deliver and collect things, and drive the lorry. Part of that is securing loads, checking the vehicle etc.

All other work. All part of my duties whilst under instruction. If I sit and have a cup of tea for 15 mins, then decide to clean my mirrors, that is my decision, by virtue of the fact that I am free to dispose of my time as I see fit. If I felt the need to polish the diesel tank, I would do so. If somebody came along with a steam cleaner and asked me if I wanted to use it, I would decline, I don’t like washing lorries. I like clean mirrors, so I clean them. My decision. Do you understand now? If I don’t feel like cleaning them, I don’t.

If my boss rang me and told me to clean them, that would be very different. He would be asking me to do something during my free time, which would mean I was under instruction, and therefore not on break.

Do you see the distinction between choice and instruction?

Dude, I see what you’re saying, always have, but that don’t make it right.

As I’ve already told you, being free to dispose of your time as you wish is a requirement of rest, not break, same symbol 2 different things. Same goes for being under instruction - that’s rest too! You could be instructed to go wait over there, once there, you could put it on break, you could be instructed to go with Dave on a MM shift, you can be on break whilst Dave is driving.

Cleaning the vehicle is one of the things listed as other work, the same as load security, maintenance etc, cleaning the mirrors comes under that as they’re part of the vehicle. You can’t choose to rewire a u/s marker light on your break, even if you’re not expected to do stuff like that and the mechanic at the yard always does it

So you can’t choose to do that on your break, in the same way you couldn’t choose to be recovered once out of duty time. Because even if it’s your choice, even if you ain’t getting paid, doesn’t change the fact that that actively is other work, you can’t choose it not to be, that’s something that the ability to choose has been taken away from you.

If it’s a work activity, then it’s a work activity, it’s that simple, no need to try and over think it.

Taken away from me? By whom? A bloke in a yellow car? I think not.

My employer doesn’t supply me with cleaning materials, I’m not expected to clean mirrors, I’m only expected to get the truck washed once a week. If I buy them and choise to use them, I shall use them whenever I see fit.

What happens if I’ve got a flat trailer and I notice a loose strap after walking back from Belly Busters Cafe, I notice a loose strap? Do I have to start my break again because I looked at the lorry and noticed it? Surely inspecting the load is other work.

I didn’t touch it, but I noticed it, so I must have been doing other work for daring to even think of my vehicle during my break.

You see where this nonsense gets you?

63

Does reading trucknet count as other work, because it feels like hard ■■■■■■■ work sometimes :smiley:

64

idrive:
Does reading trucknet count as other work, because it feels like hard [zb] work sometimes :smiley:

:laughing:

65

jakethesnake:

muckles:

jakethesnake:
This, from a man who claims to be an instructor in all things transport.

You do realise most of these clowns are ex lorry drivers. :wink:

And they have mostly been the worst instructors I’ve had to misfortune of being taught by.
Maybe the old adage of “Those who can do, those who can’t teach” holds true? :wink:
[/quote]

TBF they don’t all talk rubbish, well not all of the time anyway. Last course I was on just outside Aberdeen and the guy not only new his stuff but he had the humour to stop the boredom.
Ex bus driver BTW.

It’s all about whether they have been trained properly and whether they stick to what they have been taught. A bit like so called instructors (lorry drivers…so called instructors) within a company who only teach the way they do things which is generally wrong.

What chance has this industry of ever improving?

Not sure if they all don’t talk rubbish, I’ve been on courses that have been well run and good instructors and those that aren’t and have bad instructors.
Teaching is a skill, you can know your subject up, down and backwards, but it doesn’t mean you can teach it to others, in fact sometimes those that are really good at what they do are the worst teachers as they find it so easy they struggle to put it across in a way an average person an understand.

I’m all for training, but I’m not sure if those that teach a DCPC are taught to teach or just have to come up with a course and stump up the money to get it registered.

I also feel the DCPC was an opportunity missed, preaching to a load of drivers in a classroom seems the wrong way of doing it, considering most drivers probably aren’t particularly academic, but more likely to be practical people, I would have thought more hands on training would have more productive, but this is more expensive and the industry probably would have had to pay, so we got probably the simplest, cheapest and worst solution.

66

Drempels:
Taken away from me? By whom? A bloke in a yellow car? I think not.

My employer doesn’t supply me with cleaning materials, I’m not expected to clean mirrors, I’m only expected to get the truck washed once a week. If I buy them and choise to use them, I shall use them whenever I see fit.

What happens if I’ve got a flat trailer and I notice a loose strap after walking back from Belly Busters Cafe, I notice a loose strap? Do I have to start my break again because I looked at the lorry and noticed it? Surely inspecting the load is other work.

I didn’t touch it, but I noticed it, so I must have been doing other work for daring to even think of my vehicle during my break.

You see where this nonsense gets you?

Nope not some dude in a yellow car, the EU regs, I’m really struggling to see how you ain’t getting this

It’s irrelevant who buys the cleaning products, it’s irrelevant if you’re told to or not to clean the mirrors.
You can use them when you want, just gotta select other work when you’re doing it.

Of course I’d clean them whilst on a break if they needed cleaning, but I wouldn’t do it if there’s a dvsa car parked opposite me, why? Because it’s bloody common sense not to carry out an other work activity whilst recording a break when there’s a bloke looking at me who could if he wanted to, bust me for it.

Whether you agree with it or not, cleaning the vehicle is an other work activity, getting paid, instructed, choosing to do it off your own back with your own products changes nothing.

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Again walking back from the belly buster, dvsa parked up opposite me, I’ll sort the strap after the break, 99.9% of the time when they ain’t, I’ll go and sort it, I might speed, but not if there’s a rozzer behind me, I know the limit is 50mph, I ain’t gonna argue it ain’t if I’m going faster with no coppers about.

Common sense, simple common sense

Just accept you were wrong to take the ■■■■ out of the clown on this subject, we all ■■■■ up, it’s how you deal with the ■■■■ ups

67

stevieboy308:

Drempels:
Taken away from me? By whom? A bloke in a yellow car? I think not.

My employer doesn’t supply me with cleaning materials, I’m not expected to clean mirrors, I’m only expected to get the truck washed once a week. If I buy them and choise to use them, I shall use them whenever I see fit.

What happens if I’ve got a flat trailer and I notice a loose strap after walking back from Belly Busters Cafe, I notice a loose strap? Do I have to start my break again because I looked at the lorry and noticed it? Surely inspecting the load is other work.

I didn’t touch it, but I noticed it, so I must have been doing other work for daring to even think of my vehicle during my break.

You see where this nonsense gets you?

Nope not some dude in a yellow car, the EU regs, I’m really struggling to see how you ain’t getting this

It’s irrelevant who buys the cleaning products, it’s irrelevant if you’re told to or not to clean the mirrors.
You can use them when you want, just gotta select other work when you’re doing it.

Of course I’d clean them whilst on a break if they needed cleaning, but I wouldn’t do it if there’s a dvsa car parked opposite me, why? Because it’s bloody common sense not to carry out an other work activity whilst recording a break when there’s a bloke looking at me who could if he wanted to, bust me for it.

Whether you agree with it or not, cleaning the vehicle is an other work activity, getting paid, instructed, choosing to do it off your own back with your own products changes nothing.

0

Again walking back from the belly buster, dvsa parked up opposite me, I’ll sort the strap after the break, 99.9% of the time when they ain’t, I’ll go and sort it, I might speed, but not if there’s a rozzer behind me, I know the limit is 50mph, I ain’t gonna argue it ain’t if I’m going faster with no coppers about.

Common sense, simple common sense

Just accept you were wrong to take the ■■■■ out of the clown on this subject, we all [zb] up, it’s how you deal with the [zb] ups

I would do exactly the same as you. However, I’m not going to listen to somebody telling me and (more importantly, the impressionable young blokes who were in the same room) that I’m gonna “get done” for something as silly as rubbing a rag over a mirror.

That kind of crap doesn’t do us or our industry any favours. If it was a waiting room loudmouth, I would have smirked to myself and forgot about it, but this geezer was in front of a load of drivers, filling their heads with rubbish, and getting paid to do so. That’s wrong.

A relative of mine is a Magistrate, he calls us every Sunday evening for a chat. I’ll ask him his opinion later, and let you know.

Not looking for a prolonged debate with you, neither am I right all the time, I just think that if we’re forced to sit through this “training” it should be of some benefit. Telling tall tales to people isn’t training.

68

Hmm, training? Can’t say that at any of the 7 days I’ve attended over the past 9 years have included any actual training.

A series of questions/ activities/ test that show just how little many of my work-mates at 2 different firms know regarding the driving and WTD regulations in relation to what they’re actually doing day - in - day out let alone the stuff they’ve never done. How misinformed the ‘trainers’ are generally and how they pass on their lack of knowledge and further confuse those that don’t know what they’re supposed to be doing in the first place.

From the first 5 years, done internally by the firm in association with Mercedes (country-wide fleet using their vehicles), first ‘trainer’ just talked about himself and all the jobs that he’d done, clearly bloody useless and couldn’t hold down a job. 2nd didn’t know his stuff and until I pointed out that a 19 hour day was not legal had misinformed 450+ drivers before our group. Last 3 dayas was led by one of the managers (ex-driver) that was fairly interesting and interactive, but can’t remember any instance of training nor correcting the errors of those making them.

Just done 2 so far for next year, can’t remember last year’s at all, the most recent one mainly involved the ex-MET copper (‘trainer’) reminiscing with a couple of drivers present about where places were in London. No training, WTD errors, no attempt to ‘educate’ where the majority of drivers didn’t understand the regulations applicable to their daily work.

It could be so much more, so many doing the job for a living do not know/ understand the basics and there is nothing in the day to improve their knowledge and understanding.

BTW - I’ll clean my mirrors as and when I feel like doing them.

69

Seeing as having a break is a legal requirement, then this should surely be classed as other work as it is part of your job description and you are not doing it by choice.

Therefore I suggest cleaning your mirrors whilst driving and never stop for anyone or anything at anytime

70

idrive:
Seeing as having a break is a legal requirement, then this should surely be classed as other work as it is part of your job description and you are not doing it by choice.

Therefore I suggest cleaning your mirrors whilst driving and never stop for anyone or anything at anytime

Perhaps we should defect dirty mirrors and wait until someone else cleans them before moving the vehicle?

71

idrive:
Unfortunately, Brexit will not happen.
And this kind of thing is here to stay either way

Brexit not happening, whilst looking a strong possibility at present - is hanging by the single thread that happens to be “law and order breaking down” or not.

Notice it has gone very quiet on the Islamic Terror front of late…

When the Conservative Party, a so-called Party of the Right tells you that Brexit is scrapped, because you won’t let me do a Liberal version of it - then what’s really being scrapped in this country is “Liberalism”.

The future belongs to the Left or the Right.

Let battle commence. “No Man’s Land” - is the former ground known as “Center”.

72

Winseer:
Notice it has gone very quiet on the Islamic Terror front of late…

Quiet enough to make you wonder who they’re working for?

73

Drempels:
I had a DCPC instructor tell me that I could get done for cleaning my mirrors during my break :laughing:

Yup, I’ve been told that too. I got called a smartarse when I asked if I could still get done if I was cleaning them so I could use them while I had a shave. I even said I’d happily make them dirty again before I drove off.

So this year apparently we’ve got to use a different training company for our dcpc. Can’t think why

74

Funny how nobody seems to be happy to accept the obvious, that the DCPC training day should logically be recorded with a manual entry the next time you drive a truck as “other work”.

75

Drempels:

stevieboy308:

Drempels:
I had a DCPC instructor tell me that I could get done for cleaning my mirrors during my break :laughing:

He’s right though!

How’s that then?

Quite clearly another dumbass driver sorely in need of doing a more strict DCPC. When you are cleaning your mirrors that is classed as other work.

76

stevieboy308:
Again walking back from the belly buster, dvsa parked up opposite me, I’ll sort the strap after the break, 99.9% of the time when they ain’t, I’ll go and sort it, I might speed, but not if there’s a rozzer behind me, I know the limit is 50mph, I ain’t gonna argue it ain’t if I’m going faster with no coppers about.

Common sense, simple common sense

Just accept you were wrong to take the ■■■■ out of the clown on this subject, we all [zb] up, it’s how you deal with the [zb] ups

You’re just another knuckledragger who calls themselves a professional but is just nothing but another example of a cowboy driver who runs bent and thinks that “just common sense innit guv” is a justification.

If I had my way given you all want to be called professionals and think you are then the DCPC should be run to the same standards as every other industry qualification I’ve done outside of transport. That is it has an exam at the end of it with a minimum 85% pass mark. No 85% or higher mark, no DCPC, no job. We’d see how many of you truckstop experts were back at work on the Monday, probably very few.

77

Vid:

idrive:
Seeing as having a break is a legal requirement, then this should surely be classed as other work as it is part of your job description and you are not doing it by choice.

Therefore I suggest cleaning your mirrors whilst driving and never stop for anyone or anything at anytime

Perhaps we should defect dirty mirrors and wait until someone else cleans them before moving the vehicle?

I did actually mean that the break itself should be classed as other work as it’s part of the job and we are paid to do it.
But I was just being a smartarse so don’t worry about it

78

Conor:
You’re just another knuckledragger who calls themselves a professional but is just nothing but another example of a cowboy driver who runs bent and thinks that “just common sense innit guv” is a justification.

If I had my way given you all want to be called professionals and think you are then the DCPC should be run to the same standards as every other industry qualification I’ve done outside of transport. That is it has an exam at the end of it with a minimum 85% pass mark. No 85% or higher mark, no DCPC, no job. We’d see how many of you truckstop experts were back at work on the Monday, probably very few.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but did you not repeatedly claim on here, after having taken your full DCPC course in 2013, that it could not be legal to take two consecutive reduced weekend rest periods ?

If so, do you not think that your DCPC training may not have been fit for purpose?

79

idrive:

Vid:

idrive:
Seeing as having a break is a legal requirement, then this should surely be classed as other work as it is part of your job description and you are not doing it by choice.

Therefore I suggest cleaning your mirrors whilst driving and never stop for anyone or anything at anytime

Perhaps we should defect dirty mirrors and wait until someone else cleans them before moving the vehicle?

I did actually mean that the break itself should be classed as other work as it’s part of the job and we are paid to do it.
But I was just being a smartarse so don’t worry about it

You and I may well be paid for our breaks, not all are for one reason or another. Guess that throws another spanner in the works for those not on paid breaks that decide to clean their mirrors or polish their fuel tanks rather than play with their todgers as to what or does or does not constitute other work.

80

Hello Vincent, how are you and your boat.