It seems when Atkinson (albeit SA by this time although Atkinson was still seen as a separate manufacturer) introduced the named range of vehicles in 1971 (there were no names to the Atkinson range before this date only Black, Gold and Silver Knight series to differentiate between Rigid, Tipper/Mixer and Tractor types) the RR engine was not included, the Borderer came with a choice of two ■■■■■■■ a 205 and 230 and a Gardner 180. The Twin Rear Steer Leader came with the ■■■■■■■ 230 or Gardner 8LXB. The Six wheel Tractor Venturer had the ■■■■■■■ 230 or 270. The Six wheel rigid Searcher came with the Gardner 6LX and ■■■■■■■ choices and finally the Eight wheeler rigid Defender came with the Gardner 6LX or 6LXB. They had no Rolls Royce engine options for this range when contemplated in 1970, the Leader was on show at the 1970 Comm Motor show with the 8LXB said to be one of the first companies to fit the engine (however this may be a debating point too). The archived Comm Motor mag for 11th December 1970 page 50 shows the ad for the new range, have a look at the engine choices. Now having said this its quite possible Atkinson or rather SA decided to later offer the RR again as a cheaper option for the Borderer hence the later tractors quoted that have been fitted with the 220, maybe our resident Atkinson experts know more on this but I still hold that there was a RR hiatus from 1971 until maybe a later mid 70’s date. Told you this would be a good talking point! Cheers Franky.
Atkinson were offering the Rolls-Royce Eagle as an option in the Mk1 chassis in the mid-sixties. Smedley’s ran a fleet of Silver Knight tractors with the 205 variant - one of which still survives today in better than new condition, thanks to it’s owner (Malcolm Chapman from Haworth).
Moving on a few years (post 1971) and there were definitely Rolls-Royce engines available in Atkinson chassis, the prototype chassis for the Eagle III went to G B Crook at Banks, Southport after testing was completed in 1972 after which they were a listed option.
What may be confusing the issue here is that Atky’s would build to order if required and as long as the components were in their inventory they would oblige ! Cheers Bewick.
That’s true enough Dennis, just seems strange the engine wasn’t included in their late 70 advert for the new range and other bits of information such as this quote from the 1971 edition of ‘The Observers Book of Commercial Vehicles’ in their Atkinson description; ‘Only Gardner and ■■■■■■■ engines are offered’. Whereas the earlier 1968 edition quotes the RR as an option along with the others presumably up to 1970. This info must have come from somewhere so was it Atkinson/SA not wanting to push the Rolls option and keeping it in the background for the new 70’s line up, it seems if it was included in brochures etc later and indeed fitted to units than they may only have fitted them if asked for as you say Dennis. Maybe something that will never be gotten to the bottom of unless someone out there knows. Oh well back to the knitting! Cheers Franky.
I’m nothing if not persistent, I had a look through the archive for 1970 Earls Court Show reports and on page 106 of the 11th September 1970 issue it includes this which was part of an article on the Twin Steer Leader and mentioned the other vehicles in the range, concerning the new list it said;
Borderer four-wheel tractive unit for up to 44 tons powered by a ■■■■■■■ 205 bhp diesel. Specifications of the revised Atkinson ranges include only Gardner and ■■■■■■■ engines giving an output spread from 150 to 270 bhp. But for the first time Fuller Roadranger gearboxes appear as well as ZF and David Brown units.
So there you have it, Atkinson it seems on the introduction of the new range did not intend to have any engines offered other than Gardner and ■■■■■■■ at least at that time, make of it what you will and the reason why! Cheers Franky.
All I can say Franky is that it was a sad day when the Redmonds bought Atky’s out! and Atky’s being a class act wouldn’t want to advertise a crap engine like the RR in their brochures but not only that the Redmond’s insisted on Atkys using their poxy Group axle when there was no need, but obviously it was a cheaper alternative to the Kirkstall D85 or the Eaton ! and I can speak from experience ! 
Cheers Bewick.
You could get the R/R in the LHD Krupp cab Atkinson, Think Monnarch transport had a mk1 unit as a shunter
in jarrow steel mill, and Crow transport had a mk2 with the R/R in up this way and Henderson at Newburn had
1 i think. 
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And Atky’s used to fit AEC engines in the 40’s and 50’s, a local firm to us at Milnthorpe, Nelsons of Arnside, ran a 50’s 8 wheeler with the larger AEC engine, the 11:3/7 ? it’s reg no only had one letter “U” on it. It was a flying machine ! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
What may be confusing the issue here is that Atky’s would build to order if required and as long as the components were in their inventory they would oblige ! Cheers Bewick.
I had a 71 MK1 on J plate. It had a 6LX, DB6 and Kirkstall. It was the first real lorry I drove on the road and I always put its late year down to late registration but who knows.
It gave years of trouble free work and I broke it up once I could afford a Fleetmaster, starting to regret that now but I needed the engine out of it. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Dougie
No doubt Dennis that SA top bods would have a say on how Atkinson progressed (or not!) once they took over and similar to Leyland’s handling of AEC they would have made sure their product didn’t suffer. Maybe they wanted to ensure the 32:4 Seddon tractors had the main use of the RR220 and halted them heading Atkinson’s way at least for a year or so and I would think they would have had the 400 series in the pipeline which would spell the end for the old style Atkinson anyway. As an aside when reading through some of the archived Comm Motors an article announced ‘ERF wins Atkinson’ going on to say Foden had failed to secure the takeover and ERF had stepped in, which of course didn’t happen. It was a cut and thrust world in those days alright. Franky.
Frankydobo:
No doubt Dennis that SA top bods would have a say on how Atkinson progressed (or not!) once they took over and similar to Leyland’s handling of AEC they would have made sure their product didn’t suffer. Maybe they wanted to ensure the 32:4 Seddon tractors had the main use of the RR220 and halted them heading Atkinson’s way at least for a year or so and I would think they would have had the 400 series in the pipeline which would spell the end for the old style Atkinson anyway. As an aside when reading through some of the archived Comm Motors an article announced ‘ERF wins Atkinson’ going on to say Foden had failed to secure the takeover and ERF had stepped in, which of course didn’t happen. It was a cut and thrust world in those days alright. Franky.
I don’t believe there was any form of rationing of RR engines, quite the opposite, as they were grateful of selling to any manufacturer who asked ! I recall attending the launch of the 400 at Rylands Warrington in 1975 and I and my Pal the late Malc Woodhouse Snr. were stood behind the Redmonds and we couldn’t resist saying loudly that the air cleaner was definitely in the wrong place ( under the n/s fron’t wing) and it would fill with rain spray, which it did of course ! The Redmonds did not respond and just moved away. I recall that we modified our first Sed Atks as soon as we got them. We couldn’t understand how Seddons made such a stupid decision to mount the air cleaner where they did, after all both the 32/4 and the Atkinsons both had their air intakes high up the rear of the cab clear of any spray ! Cheers Dennis.
Frankydobo:
No doubt Dennis that SA top bods would have a say on how Atkinson progressed (or not!) once they took over and similar to Leyland’s handling of AEC they would have made sure their product didn’t suffer. Maybe they wanted to ensure the 32:4 Seddon tractors had the main use of the RR220 and halted them heading Atkinson’s way at least for a year or so and I would think they would have had the 400 series in the pipeline which would spell the end for the old style Atkinson anyway. As an aside when reading through some of the archived Comm Motors an article announced ‘ERF wins Atkinson’ going on to say Foden had failed to secure the takeover and ERF had stepped in, which of course didn’t happen. It was a cut and thrust world in those days alright. Franky.
The deal that swung the purchase of Atkinson by Seddon was Leyland Motors deciding to sell its Atkinson shares to Seddon instead of ERF. the tentacles of Leyland Motors stretched far and wide in the British Commercial vehicle manufacturing industry. They also held a shareholding in Foden.
Bewick:
…I recall attending the launch of the 400 at Rylands Warrington in 1975 and I and my Pal the late Malc Woodhouse Snr. were stood behind the Redmonds and we couldn’t resist saying loudly that the air cleaner was definitely in the wrong place ( under the n/s fron’t wing) and it would fill with rain spray, which it did of course ! The Redmonds did not respond and just moved away. I recall that we modified our first Sed Atks as soon as we got them. We couldn’t understand how Seddons made such a stupid decision to mount the air cleaner where they did, after all both the 32/4 and the Atkinsons both had their air intakes high up the rear of the cab clear of any spray ! Cheers Dennis.
Scanias and Berliets of that period had the air cleaners there. Did they suffer from the same water/filth ingress problem?
(I feel we have discussed this subject before but, since I cannot remember the outcome, I’ll ask again 
).
Gingerfold wrote;
The deal that swung the purchase of Atkinson by Seddon was Leyland Motors deciding to sell its Atkinson shares to Seddon instead of ERF. the tentacles of Leyland Motors stretched far and wide in the British Commercial vehicle manufacturing industry. They also held a shareholding in Foden.
They certainly had a finger in every pie they could reach Graham, I have an A4 Booklet titled British Leyland from steam wagons to Seventies strife by Stephen Pullen. You may have seen it, very well written on the many different companies and figures that came under the Leyland umbrella over the years, an interesting read. Franky.
[zb]
anorak:Bewick:
…I recall attending the launch of the 400 at Rylands Warrington in 1975 and I and my Pal the late Malc Woodhouse Snr. were stood behind the Redmonds and we couldn’t resist saying loudly that the air cleaner was definitely in the wrong place ( under the n/s fron’t wing) and it would fill with rain spray, which it did of course ! The Redmonds did not respond and just moved away. I recall that we modified our first Sed Atks as soon as we got them. We couldn’t understand how Seddons made such a stupid decision to mount the air cleaner where they did, after all both the 32/4 and the Atkinsons both had their air intakes high up the rear of the cab clear of any spray ! Cheers Dennis.Scanias and Berliets of that period had the air cleaners there. Did they suffer from the same water/filth ingress problem?
(I feel we have discussed this subject before but, since I cannot remember the outcome, I’ll ask again
The Sed/Atk had the air intake right inside the n/s wing which was right in the firing line of all the spray that was generated when it rained, whereas the Scania 110/111 had the intake behind the front n/s bumper and it was never a problem ! Cheers Bewick.
Frankydobo:
Gingerfold wrote;
The deal that swung the purchase of Atkinson by Seddon was Leyland Motors deciding to sell its Atkinson shares to Seddon instead of ERF. the tentacles of Leyland Motors stretched far and wide in the British Commercial vehicle manufacturing industry. They also held a shareholding in Foden.They certainly had a finger in every pie they could reach Graham, I have an A4 Booklet titled British Leyland from steam wagons to Seventies strife by Stephen Pullen. You may have seen it, very well written on the many different companies and figures that came under the Leyland umbrella over the years, an interesting read. Franky.
By the end of the 60’s Atkinson Lorries Ltd were what you could term “a mature company” similar to what Gardner became and unfortunately the cupboard was bare as to what the future held, as no doubt at the time they, Atky’s, would have been well aware that big changes were just around the corner with the coming of the Scandinavians and other European manufactures. But in the early 70’s Atkys still had a loyal following and were trading well. I could never understand the involvement of ERF or Foden as a takeover by either of them would have gained them nothing. I also believe that the Leyland involvement in Atky’s and Foden was just a spoiler to allow them to keep a close eye on the competition so to speak. In the end Seddon were probably the best partner to acquire Atky’s in 1970 but by all accounts the old Atky Board just wanted out as they were collectively past their sell by date as well. Just my recollection of what transpired many years ago and no doubt others may have different ideas. Cheers Dennis.
I think that is a very fair summary of the situation in 1970 as far as Atkinson was concerned and the Directors probably realised that they could not, or would not, finance the investment needed to meet the demands of a rapidly changing market in the next few years. The Atkinson cab was dated and though it continued until 1975 the days of coach built cabs were numbered.
Frankydobo:
Punchy Dan asked; What model would this be ?Not an Omega from the late 50’s but a 1968 Silver Knight BT 10066C, it was exhibited at the 1968 Earls Court show. Custom built for Heavy Haulage it had a ■■■■■■■ NH250 under the long bonnet coupled to a semi-auto Allison six speed box known as the Torqmatic. You can see the difference between the earlier Omega and the later Silver Knight. On the subject of RR engines and Atkinson, they offered RR up to the new range introduced in 1971 when the models became named such as Borderer, Silver Knight etc. Only ■■■■■■■ and Gardner were options for this series. Franky.
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There was a BT tractor on the Atkinson stand at the 1968 Earls Court Show, but it wasn’t the Sunter’s example. The Show exhibit was a crew-cabbed tractor, originally intended for Pickfords and carrying their name on the headboard:
Earls Court 1968 by Terry, on Flickr
Cheers 240 Gardner, apparently it never went to Pickfords in the end for some reason and I believe this was the 100 Ton version, BT10066C. Franky.
Bewick:
carryfast-yeti:
Bewick:
As a matter of interest I wonder just how many Atkinson Borderers were built with the RR engine, I know Dobsons of Edinburgh ( Rylands Group) ran some but I never could recall any others, well at least not hauliers, but no doubt there were some big own account fleets that were tempted on price ! Cheers Bewick.the ‘Mines Rescue’ Borderer on You Tube has a RR engine Dennis.i wonder if the Coal Board had a fleet of them?
I believe the Mines Rescue Atky was a special “one off” and Brian has given it a good name “Lonesome George”
Cheers Dennis.
IIRC it has a 42 tonne plate too - and very stiff springs!