mizzo:
Stanfield:
Brings it all back. what do you think Dennis? (lovely jubbly)
youtube.com/watch?v=7gcDyxFk8Rc
Great video John, certainly brings back memories for me, but I’d be happy to jump in the drivers seat of that!! Regards, Mizzo.[/quote
if you are ever at a rally you can have a drive.
Bewick:
How does a T3446RR turn into 45ton 2 axle special ? Surely it should have had a 3rd axle to be rated at 45 ton gvw! and a Kirkstall "underslung axle"IIRC was the old Bevelled Double Reduction one which was phased out in '71 IIRC.It was replaced with the Kirkstall D85 Hub reduction axle and that NCB unit looks,to me anyway,to have a Hub reduction axle,I’m not just sure what the D85 was rated at but it probably was 13ton the same as the Seddon Group axle.If indeed this NCB tractor is the spec you claim it certainly is an exotic one and could only have been put together by a “money no object” nationalised industry Fleet Engineer.Whereabouts is the Atkinson supplied Sun visor? Just my observations as a former haulier who operated many Borderer tractor units T3446C models,but this RR tractor sure is interesting and not the “run of the mill” Atky tractor.Cheers Bewick.
It’s anything BUT a run-of-the-mill machine, Dennis! It’s one of two which tempted me greatly at Kev Dennis’ sale in 1997, but it went too high for me, and I already had enough machinery about me.
Technically, this Borderer could actually have been re-plated in 1983 for 38 tonnes, since it had a design weight of 45 tons, and was built after the deadline date.
240 Gardner:
Bewick:
How does a T3446RR turn into 45ton 2 axle special ? Surely it should have had a 3rd axle to be rated at 45 ton gvw! and a Kirkstall "underslung axle"IIRC was the old Bevelled Double Reduction one which was phased out in '71 IIRC.It was replaced with the Kirkstall D85 Hub reduction axle and that NCB unit looks,to me anyway,to have a Hub reduction axle,I’m not just sure what the D85 was rated at but it probably was 13ton the same as the Seddon Group axle.If indeed this NCB tractor is the spec you claim it certainly is an exotic one and could only have been put together by a “money no object” nationalised industry Fleet Engineer.Whereabouts is the Atkinson supplied Sun visor? Just my observations as a former haulier who operated many Borderer tractor units T3446C models,but this RR tractor sure is interesting and not the “run of the mill” Atky tractor.Cheers Bewick.It’s anything BUT a run-of-the-mill machine, Dennis! It’s one of two which tempted me greatly at Kev Dennis’ sale in 1997, but it went too high for me, and I already had enough machinery about me.
Technically, this Borderer could actually have been re-plated in 1983 for 38 tonnes, since it had a design weight of 45 tons, and was built after the deadline date.
Totally agree with you I was at that sale with someone who wanted to buy the A E C minor ( Chinese six) but every thing was going for daft money He didn’t get it either. Frank
[
she is a T4546RR.
design weight
front axle 6,610kg
back 13,210kg
gross 16670kg
train 45730kg
the axle is the same as ONE of the two on the 75T venturer. It is the D85 but underslung with bigger wheel studs and diff lock. (hence the split rims that have bigger wheel nut holes and are much thicker than normal split rims.) then she has the bigger prop to the 9 speed fuller to cope with the torque form the 280. the sunvisor is above the drivers seat, and has been certified by a Atki nut as been on from the factory. when in use she was used to tow the winding unit. this was 37,340kg so well within it designed weight, but out of its 32t plate, but am sure that it will never have been stopped. she was on call 24 7 and was in a heated shed in barnsley with two shifts of men untill 1991. I would put pics on but i have forgot how to do so. thanks Richard.
[/quote]
Evening Gentlemen, yes she is a rare motor, and that is a great video…but are we “aficianadoes” ,(and I loved my Atkinsons, after all I earned my living from them as a young man for many years), forgetting just how quickly they became outdated, (post Redmond brothers perchance)?
I remember demonstrating a Venturer 75tonner, (or so the brass plate on the cab rear proclaimed), to Foden operators Geoff, and Ken Bird, (A G Bird) heavy haulage, behind the Red White and Blue public house at Featherstone on the A 460. By gum, was I impressed with that lorry, 15speed, big ■■■■■■■ thumping away, how could Birds compare their S80 Fodens to this?
On a wet and dismal day, I entered their yard, across the footpath…nice and gently…crash…the passenger screen exited the cab, and self destructed on the wet tarmac!!!
Well, never say die, despite the ribbing I was getting! So following a quick walk around, and this was an impressive lorry…away, (despite the rain), for a demo run,…but on exiting the yard…crash…(and I was going slow…believe me), the drivers screen fell out!!!
Yes …end of demo…wet trip back to the Black Country…and absolutely nil response from Walton le Dale regarding build quality, and Birds added yet another Foden to their fleet!!!
When I go to my local builders merchants to collect “stuff” with my Scammell Scarab, the man who loads me, Alan, in his younger days was a “bogie boy” for Birds, …and reminds me of this incident…(and I , of when he misjudged a turn out of the yard with a big, big, beam), so I guess we are about even!!
Yet 12months later I supplied a Volvo F88 240 6X4 100tonner to a Walsall Operator, and it just did the job day after day, after day, after day,…no drama at all.
The Venturer went to Rawcliffes, then eventually to my pal Bob Wilson on the fun fair, certainly Bob had no problems with her, Rawcliffes, well I do not know. But what I do know, is that the quality fell away from Atkinson, be it from erratic component supply, lack of labour force confidence, or just plain b… awful management…but the quality went.
That “group axle” ye Gods…they made better seals in Servis washing machines in downtown Darlaston!! The 400s, (with added rust…at no extra charge sir)! Peculiar electrics, and whatever happened to the Borderers excellent pipework in its sibling■■?
Just like the rest of the British lorry industry…it went to the dogs…but the idiots running it lost site of the fact that the customer paid his money for something that helped his business to make profit, and they failed miserably to recognise this fact!!!
Many times that I sat with the late Geoff Greenhalch, (MAN UK, but more importantly Atkinson Australia), to discuss these points, (and we were both “Atkinson men”), and, sad to say, we always, by whatever route, came to agree…the management “lost it”!!
So, as I now look at my “Strato clock”, on the kitchen wall, (and out of “nostalgia”, I bought and ran quite a few Stratos, and had good service from them), and it tells me that it is time for my Bollinger nightcap, and over this incomparable exqusite liquid I shall reflect on the British lorry industries finest creation....the Atkinson Borderer,...see, Im still an aficianardo ,…and yes I, (and many others), would love a turn behind the wheel of that ex NCB machine!!!
Bon Nuit, Cheerio for now.
If that very special Atky was kept in a heated garage,on call 24/7,where were the other 17 kept that were the rest of the order? Who else would have use for a 4x2 ballast tractor of that spec ? What kind of mileage did it clock up between 75/76 and 1991 I wonder,very little I think,if you listen to the crisp sound of that video !! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
If that very special Atky was kept in a heated garage,on call 24/7,where were the other 17 kept that were the rest of the order? Who else would have use for a 4x2 ballast tractor of that spec ? What kind of mileage did it clock up between 75/76 and 1991 I wonder,very little I think,if you listen to the crisp sound of that video !! Cheers Bewick.
You can see them in the lorry park next to all them Gardner 8lxb GUY big J motors that once went up and down the road
in the night. 
8LXBV8BRIAN:
Bewick:
If that very special Atky was kept in a heated garage,on call 24/7,where were the other 17 kept that were the rest of the order? Who else would have use for a 4x2 ballast tractor of that spec ? What kind of mileage did it clock up between 75/76 and 1991 I wonder,very little I think,if you listen to the crisp sound of that video !! Cheers Bewick.You can see them in the lorry park next to all them Gardner 8lxb GUY big J motors that once went up and down the road
in the night.
Now give over wor Hinney,your just trying to kick off another “red herring” thread but don’t forget,these lads are deadly serious and don’t always have the sense of humour of Ye and Me eh! Although I do concur my good man,it will be extremley interesting listening to the claims and counter claims that may well now erupt as to where the other 17 beasts were delivered.I think I already know (tapping the side of my Red Hooter 
) Waugh Road Services Ltd.,well the spec of ONL482M wasn’t far from that of said NCB motor so maybe it was just a “taster” spec and a couple of years later they ended up with 17 RR abortions 
Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
If that very special Atky was kept in a heated garage,on call 24/7,where were the other 17 kept that were the rest of the order? Who else would have use for a 4x2 ballast tractor of that spec ? What kind of mileage did it clock up between 75/76 and 1991 I wonder,very little I think,if you listen to the crisp sound of that video !! Cheers Bewick.
there was only one evey made at 45t for the NCB that we no of to date. i was saying one of 18 borderers with the 280RR. i have a factory list of all atki’s made with the 280RR and all of them were 32 Toners. she has 38,000miles on the speedo, and i think 40k on the taco. thats on my shed, i can dig it out and have a look to confirm. so all in all around 60,000miles. the only bad thing was that she was started every shift and run on tick over to make sure it starts■■? grrrr not good for engines as we all no.
Evening Gentlemen, yes she is a rare motor, and that is a great video…but are we “aficianadoes” ,(and I loved my Atkinsons, after all I earned my living from them as a young man for many years), forgetting just how quickly they became outdated, (post Redmond brothers perchance)?
I remember demonstrating a Venturer 75tonner, (or so the brass plate on the cab rear proclaimed), to Foden operators Geoff, and Ken Bird, (A G Bird) heavy haulage, behind the Red White and Blue public house at Featherstone on the A 460. By gum, was I impressed with that lorry, 15speed, big ■■■■■■■ thumping away, how could Birds compare their S80 Fodens to this?
On a wet and dismal day, I entered their yard, across the footpath…nice and gently…crash…the passenger screen exited the cab, and self destructed on the wet tarmac!!!
Well, never say die, despite the ribbing I was getting! So following a quick walk around, and this was an impressive lorry…away, (despite the rain), for a demo run,…but on exiting the yard…crash…(and I was going slow…believe me), the drivers screen fell out!!!
Yes …end of demo…wet trip back to the Black Country…and absolutely nil response from Walton le Dale regarding build quality, and Birds added yet another Foden to their fleet!!!
When I go to my local builders merchants to collect “stuff” with my Scammell Scarab, the man who loads me, Alan, in his younger days was a “bogie boy” for Birds, …and reminds me of this incident…(and I , of when he misjudged a turn out of the yard with a big, big, beam), so I guess we are about even!!
Yet 12months later I supplied a Volvo F88 240 6X4 100tonner to a Walsall Operator, and it just did the job day after day, after day, after day,…no drama at all.
The Venturer went to Rawcliffes, then eventually to my pal Bob Wilson on the fun fair, certainly Bob had no problems with her, Rawcliffes, well I do not know. But what I do know, is that the quality fell away from Atkinson, be it from erratic component supply, lack of labour force confidence, or just plain b… awful management…but the quality went.
That “group axle” ye Gods…they made better seals in Servis washing machines in downtown Darlaston!! The 400s, (with added rust…at no extra charge sir)! Peculiar electrics, and whatever happened to the Borderers excellent pipework in its sibling■■?
Just like the rest of the British lorry industry…it went to the dogs…but the idiots running it lost site of the fact that the customer paid his money for something that helped his business to make profit, and they failed miserably to recognise this fact!!!
Many times that I sat with the late Geoff Greenhalch, (MAN UK, but more importantly Atkinson Australia), to discuss these points, (and we were both “Atkinson men”), and, sad to say, we always, by whatever route, came to agree…the management “lost it”!!
So, as I now look at my “Strato clock”, on the kitchen wall, (and out of “nostalgia”, I bought and ran quite a few Stratos, and had good service from them), and it tells me that it is time for my Bollinger nightcap, and over this incomparable exqusite liquid I shall reflect on the British lorry industries finest creation....the Atkinson Borderer,...see, Im still an aficianardo ,…and yes I, (and many others), would love a turn behind the wheel of that ex NCB machine!!!
Bon Nuit, Cheerio for now.
[/quote]
nice little story and following on from that, i took mine for road tax a few years ago and a chap stopped me saying he used to service the truck for the NCB and they could not keep the drivers window in this one. so what did they do, pop rivet a plate under the window, hehe. i try and not look at the windows on the road, it makes me shudder when going down bumpy road, and the 12 under slung leaf springs dont evern move party loaded. thanks Richard.
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ? 
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ?
yes i think so, never mesured them will do in the moring,. if she is parked next to a normal borderer she stand a little higher.
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ?
What about the other 17,this is blatant favourtism as far as I’m concerned!!signed Anoyed,very,from Tonbridge Wells.
Bewick:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ?What about the other 17,this is blatant favourtism as far as I’m concerned!!signed Anoyed,very,from Tonbridge Wells.
do you not under stand? or on a wind up? one T4546RR for the NCB with all the spec that i have put, 17 random Borderers T3446T with the 280 RR and many with the group axle.
road-ranger:
Bewick:
Stanfield:
Brings it all back. what do you think Dennis? (lovely jubbly)
youtube.com/watch?v=7gcDyxFk8RcGreat video John,now there is a Borderer that will have done very little miles during it’s service life ! That would account for it’s economy spec (cheapest) RR engine and Group axle,at least it has the Fuller box as it could have had the DB 6:600 then it would have had all the “diseases” !! I just didn’t notice if it had Power steering though ! I suppose that if it was never going to do many miles the NCB would want the cheapest possible spec.common sense I think but I wouldn’t have touched that spec with a 100ft bargepole for a General haulage fleet.It sure sounded a nice gearbox.A bit different from that video of the Carters fairground 8LXB with the Lady driver at the wheel,I dont think she was a bad driver it was just that the motor was well worn,crunch,crunch! Sort them out love they’er all in one box somewhere !! Cheers Dennis.
cheep spec■■?
This is a one off atki 45t unit. group axle how very dare you? 13T underslung Kirkstall, one of 18 280RR, radiator shutters, Dunlop maxaret, 38mm wheel nuts, auto lube, front shockers, and atkinson fitted sun visor, now there was not many of them. this truck was not a cheep truck, i only wish that the transport manger back then liked ■■■■■■■■ then i might have had a 290. as much as i like the ■■■■■■■ you can get a much faster gear change with the RR with the difference in the fuel pump. thanks
I must have misunderstood, but you did say “one of 18 280RR” so I,quite wrongly,assumed that you talking about 18 NCB tractor units ! Doh! I am a thick ■■■■■■■ for sure,I must read between the lines in future .Cheers Bewick.
road-ranger:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ?
yes i think so, never mesured them will do in the moring,. if she is parked next to a normal borderer she stand a little higher.[/quot
The tyres size you have fitted might be the reason for the slight difference ?
8LXBV8BRIAN:
road-ranger:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ?yes i think so, never mesured them will do in the moring,. if she is parked next to a normal borderer she stand a little higher.[/quot
The tyres size you have fitted might be the reason for the slight difference ?
1100x20,1200x20,8:25x17,R295 ? Cheers Tyre kicker. 
Bewick:
road-ranger:
Bewick:
Stanfield:
Brings it all back. what do you think Dennis? (lovely jubbly)
youtube.com/watch?v=7gcDyxFk8RcGreat video John,now there is a Borderer that will have done very little miles during it’s service life ! That would account for it’s economy spec (cheapest) RR engine and Group axle,at least it has the Fuller box as it could have had the DB 6:600 then it would have had all the “diseases” !! I just didn’t notice if it had Power steering though ! I suppose that if it was never going to do many miles the NCB would want the cheapest possible spec.common sense I think but I wouldn’t have touched that spec with a 100ft bargepole for a General haulage fleet.It sure sounded a nice gearbox.A bit different from that video of the Carters fairground 8LXB with the Lady driver at the wheel,I dont think she was a bad driver it was just that the motor was well worn,crunch,crunch! Sort them out love they’er all in one box somewhere !! Cheers Dennis.
cheep spec■■?
This is a one off atki 45t unit. group axle how very dare you? 13T underslung Kirkstall, one of 18 280RR, radiator shutters, Dunlop maxaret, 38mm wheel nuts, auto lube, front shockers, and atkinson fitted sun visor, now there was not many of them. this truck was not a cheep truck, i only wish that the transport manger back then liked ■■■■■■■■ then i might have had a 290. as much as i like the ■■■■■■■ you can get a much faster gear change with the RR with the difference in the fuel pump. thanks
I must have misunderstood, but you did say “one of 18 280RR” so I,quite wrongly,assumed that you talking about 18 NCB tractor units ! Doh! I am a thick [zb] for sure,I must read between the lines in future
i did say a one off, but like you say it was not so clear. At the Barnsley NCB they had two more T3446T borderers, both with the RR but the 220, both with D85 but over slung on 11 22.5 wheels, both with dunlop maxaret, and both had the spec of upright stacks.they were on a M reg i think, they used the cat two fifth wheels, where as mine had the dubble bendy cat three. they had to put a shim on the trailers i was informed.
Bewick:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
road-ranger:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
The lone 45T 4x2 would it have had the deep cross members like the 6 x 4 Venturer ?yes i think so, never mesured them will do in the moring,. if she is parked next to a normal borderer she stand a little higher.[/quot
The tyres size you have fitted might be the reason for the slight difference ?
1100x20,1200x20,8:25x17,R295 ? Cheers Tyre kicker.
yeh the is probs why. 1100x20.
There begs another question,I wonder which operators took delivery of the other 17 tractor units of a “similar” spec to the NCB one,I dont recall any up our way,I wonder if Tom Riding knew of any on his travels? Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
There begs another question,I wonder which operators took delivery of the other 17 tractor units of a “similar” spec to the NCB one,I dont recall any up our way,I wonder if Tom Riding knew of any on his travels? Cheers Bewick.
Dennis have a look on page 20 of the graveyard thread.