Very near to our yard is a mini roundabout which isn’t causing a problem unless it’s commute time or the school run.
It has 3x intersections, what you would call the main road going straight across & a side road forming a T junction. Both of the main road intersections have ‘Give Way’ signs and double broken white lines. The side road has no ‘Give Way’ sign & only a single broken white line.
My understanding of this is that vehicles entering the mini roundabout from the side road have priority over those entering it from the main road. Although you should always give way to vehicles on the right, this side road has poor visibility to the right & vehicles travelling the main road are coming up & crossing the mini roundabout at 30mph+ giving no time for vehicles entering from the side road to ensure a gap.
Our lads entering the roundabout from the side road are getting lots n lots of horn followed by the occasional screeching of tyres & the TM is bricking it for when the ultimate happens, but we’re in the right here aren’t we? We cannot see them approaching to find a gap, they’re mostly approaching at 30mph+ and they have a ‘Give Way’ sign that’s telling them to well ermmm ‘Give Way’.
No a roundabout is a roundabout give way to right
Rule 188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)
Rule 189
At double mini-roundabouts treat each roundabout separately and give way to traffic from the right
There’s a hell of a lot of ignorant/bullying/incompetent drivers, in all vehicle types, who treat roundabouts like a cross roads where they have right of way to blast through as if they’re on a mission.
Presumably you have on board cameras? which generally arn’t set up for the view to the right, but many systems now allow one or two external feeds, so a carefully positioned camera on the osf corner would capture the moment someone tries to drive through the side of your vehicle as they approach at warp speed, plus they’re handy for idiot overtakers and lane situations too, the ideal would be two external feeds for both sides.
The roads have changed, hell the whole country has changed and not for the better, you can forget honesty honour decency respect and good manners, they’re history except for a few stubborn souls, if you have an altercation on the road these days, or anywhere else for that matter, its almost certain at least one party will lie and may well recruit others from their ‘type’ to back up their version of events, we all need cameras and/or recording equipment now.
We have 2 such near us where the council in their wisdom decided to make T junctions into mini roundabouts without cutting into the opposite side of the road to make the give way line from the side road stick further out to prevent the right look blind spot.
The only way to exit from the side road is to have the car bonnet fully over the give way line for vision
Also the painted white circles are so large that only a motorbike can negotiate them without touching them !
ROG:
We have 2 such near us where the council in their wisdom decided to make T junctions into mini roundabouts without cutting into the opposite side of the road to make the give way line from the side road stick further out to prevent the right look blind spot.
The only way to exit from the side road is to have the car bonnet fully over the give way line for vision
Also the painted white circles are so large that only a motorbike can negotiate them without touching them !
the one close to our house if turning right has the circle so far across that you would need to do a virtual u turn to go around the circle !
ROG:
We have 2 such near us where the council in their wisdom decided to make T junctions into mini roundabouts without cutting into the opposite side of the road to make the give way line from the side road stick further out to prevent the right look blind spot.
The only way to exit from the side road is to have the car bonnet fully over the give way line for vision
Also the painted white circles are so large that only a motorbike can negotiate them without touching them !
We’ve got exactly the same problems with two roundabouts near here.
Firstly isn’t the actual rule give way to traffic already established ‘on a roundabout’.IE whoever is ‘on the roundabout’ first not plough into the side of a vehicle that’s already ‘on’ the roundabout before you get there and enter it,regardless of the give way to the right rule ?.
As for the painted circle we’ve been informed by the local council here that they actually intended the circle to be crossed by turning vehicles from the design stage.
mini roundabout means…ignore completely and crack on…just keep an eye out for possible retatrds whilst dong so…straight through and over the top…no such thing in a truck.
Carryfast:
Firstly isn’t the actual rule give way to traffic already established ‘on a roundabout’.IE whoever is ‘on the roundabout’ first not plough into the side of a vehicle that’s already ‘on’ the roundabout before you get there and enter it,regardless of the give way to the right rule ?.
When using a roundabout you must not cause another driver to move or slow down
Imagine a motorbike is approaching quickly from the entry on your right but you get onto it first and the motorbike has to swerve or slow down to avoid you … you are at fault
The same thing causes fails on LGV and car tests - driver did not observe anticipate the speed of others
Carryfast:
Firstly isn’t the actual rule give way to traffic already established ‘on a roundabout’.IE whoever is ‘on the roundabout’ first not plough into the side of a vehicle that’s already ‘on’ the roundabout before you get there and enter it,regardless of the give way to the right rule ?.
When using a roundabout you must not cause another driver to move or slow down
Imagine a motorbike is approaching quickly from the entry on your right but you get onto it first and the motorbike has to swerve or slow down to avoid you … you are at fault
The same thing causes fails on LGV and car tests - driver did not observe anticipate the speed of others
So in effect they might as well have left the road as a T junction or cross roads as it was before, common sense in this situation as in all things, the person approaching from the right isn’t on a motorway or clearway he’s approaching a roundabout even if it’s just a dot of paint on the road, so a suitable speed is called for by all road users.
Carryfast:
Firstly isn’t the actual rule give way to traffic already established ‘on a roundabout’.IE whoever is ‘on the roundabout’ first not plough into the side of a vehicle that’s already ‘on’ the roundabout before you get there and enter it,regardless of the give way to the right rule ?.
When using a roundabout you must not cause another driver to move or slow down
Imagine a motorbike is approaching quickly from the entry on your right but you get onto it first and the motorbike has to swerve or slow down to avoid you … you are at fault
The same thing causes fails on LGV and car tests - driver did not observe anticipate the speed of others
So to clarify someone is actually established on a roundabout,having ‘already entered’ it.At which point someone then approaches the roundabout from the right and ‘then enters’ the roundabout and runs into the offside of the already established vehicle.It’s the fault of the driver who was already established on the roundabout.So what does the bit which says ‘‘watch out for other road users on the roundabout’’ and travel at a speed at which you can stop within the distance which you can see to be clear ahead,all mean ?.
When the fact is if something is actually ‘on the roundabout’ first then traffic ‘approaching the roundabout’ obviously has to give way regardless of the give way to the right rule.Especially in the case of roundabouts with blind approaches.IE you’re only meant to give way to traffic ‘on the roundabout’ from the right.If that wasn’t the case I could have easily taken out numerous cars,trucks,cyclists and a few horses and riders over the years on the particularly nasty blind approach mini roundabout with set back entry line which I’d described.At which having to reverse the priorities is often the only safe option for all concerned and I’d doubt if your definition,of priority to the right in all circumstances,would be any defence against taking out a cyclist or horse rider,having run into them from the right,for example.
ROG:
The same thing causes fails on LGV and car tests - driver did not observe anticipate the speed of others
So in effect they might as well have left the road as a T junction or cross roads as it was before, common sense in this situation as in all things, the person approaching from the right isn’t on a motorway or clearway he’s approaching a roundabout even if it’s just a dot of paint on the road, so a suitable speed is called for by all road users.
Ironically in the example I was referring to they’ve removed a T junction and replaced it with a mini roundabout which not only creates exactly the same hazard as before but adds to it by them having moved the give way line further back making what was a limited visibility entry now an almost blind one from the side road.
Must agree with most on this post, but in the scenario ROG pointed out, i cant see how the person on the roundabout can take any blame, for the highway code surely states one must give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, so if mr clever cloggs on the motorbike approaches a roundabout, there is a sign he has ignored which states, give way, roundabout ahead, and therefore must give way to vehicles already on it, be it a car or a an artic.
truckyboy:
so if mr clever cloggs on the motorbike approaches a roundabout, there is a sign he has ignored which states, give way, roundabout ahead, and therefore must give way to vehicles already on it, be it a car or a an artic.
And,specifically in this case,regardless of which junction the vehicle ‘on the roundabout’ entered it from ?.IE when ‘entering’ a roundabout give way to vehicles ‘on the roundabout’ approaching from the right.Not give way,‘when on a roundabout’,to vehicles ‘entering’ a roundabout from any junction.Although ironically the latter being the better idea in the real world.But which wouldn’t work in the case of mini roundabouts anyway and which would be better returned to T junctions and Crossroads etc.
What I say is, whilst it may not be official Highway Code advice, is if I’m already on a roundabout and it was clear or at least a safe gap to go into, then [zb] em. They can beep all they want but they shouldn’t have been coming so fast into a hazard. If they hit the front end of my unit that shows I pulled out when they couldn’t stop, my fault. If they hit anywhere down my trailer that shows I was easily far enough out for them to see me and stop or slow down before they got onto the roundabout and shows they were going WAY too fast into the roundabout. So I say [zb] em.
Rowley010:
What I say is, whilst it may not be official Highway Code advice, is if I’m already on a roundabout and it was clear or at least a safe gap to go into, then [zb] em. They can beep all they want but they shouldn’t have been coming so fast into a hazard. If they hit the front end of my unit that shows I pulled out when they couldn’t stop, my fault. If they hit anywhere down my trailer that shows I was easily far enough out for them to see me and stop or slow down before they got onto the roundabout and shows they were going WAY too fast into the roundabout. So I say [zb] em.
Common occurance on the (full size) roundabout at the end of the A15 turning right onto the A46 (north of Lincoln). Vehicle coming up the 46 have a good view to the right and approach at full speed. Turning right from the 15 has restricted view. Getting 44 ton moving from a standing start takes time. Recipe for screeching tyres and blowing horns. Like you, my philosophy is sod em. THEY have a responsibility to other road users just like I have.
truckyboy:
Must agree with most on this post, but in the scenario ROG pointed out, i cant see how the person on the roundabout can take any blame, for the highway code surely states one must give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, so if mr clever cloggs on the motorbike approaches a roundabout, there is a sign he has ignored which states, give way, roundabout ahead, and therefore must give way to vehicles already on it, be it a car or a an artic.
If that was the case then many LGV tests must be examined incorrectly !!!
Rowley010:
What I say is, whilst it may not be official Highway Code advice, is if I’m already on a roundabout and it was clear or at least a safe gap to go into, then fk em. They can beep all they want but they shouldn’t have been coming so fast into a hazard. If they hit the front end of my unit that shows I pulled out when they couldn’t stop, my fault. If they hit anywhere down my trailer that shows I was easily far enough out for them to see me and stop or slow down before they got onto the roundabout and shows they were going WAY too fast into the roundabout. So I say fk em.
Common occurance on the (full size) roundabout at the end of the A15 turning right onto the A46 (north of Lincoln). Vehicle coming up the 46 have a good view to the right and approach at full speed. Turning right from the 15 has restricted view. Getting 44 ton moving from a standing start takes time. Recipe for screeching tyres and blowing horns. Like you, my philosophy is sod em. THEY have a responsibility to other road users just like I have.
Yep. If they aren’t there when I start pulling out then reglardless of how fast they hit the roundabout I’m going if I’ve already started moving. I know it would be a test fail but this is real life in real life rush hour idiot traffic. 2 totally different things.
truckyboy:
Must agree with most on this post, but in the scenario ROG pointed out, i cant see how the person on the roundabout can take any blame, for the highway code surely states one must give way to vehicles already on the roundabout, so if mr clever cloggs on the motorbike approaches a roundabout, there is a sign he has ignored which states, give way, roundabout ahead, and therefore must give way to vehicles already on it, be it a car or a an artic.
If that was the case then many LGV tests must be examined incorrectly !!!
In my opinion they are examined incorrectly ROG. You start pulling out when it’s clear, your half way out on the roundabout and mr or mrs stig comes 40mph with tyres schreeching round the roundabout, have to slam brakes on, and you who was already half way out in the truck fails the test. How is that fair?
I think every other situation other than on test you give way to traffic ALREADY on the roundabout, I certainly think that’s the way 2 insurance companies would see it in a dispute.
Rowley010:
In my opinion they are examined incorrectly ROG. You start pulling out when it’s clear, your half way out on the roundabout and mr or mrs stig comes 40mph with tyres schreeching round the roundabout, have to slam brakes on, and you who was already half way out in the truck fails the test. How is that fair?
If stig could not be SEEN before pulling out then it would not be a fault but if stig could be seen approaching at speed and its obvious stig is going to be held up if you pull out then it is a fail
Rowley010:
In my opinion they are examined incorrectly ROG. You start pulling out when it’s clear, your half way out on the roundabout and mr or mrs stig comes 40mph with tyres schreeching round the roundabout, have to slam brakes on, and you who was already half way out in the truck fails the test. How is that fair?
If stig could not be SEEN before pulling out then it would not be a fault but if stig could be seen approaching at speed and its obvious stig is going to be held up if you pull out then it is a fail
I’ve heard of plenty of test fails where it was clear but then a car came fast around the roundabout. Not a mini roundabout but a big one with trees or bushes in the middle where you couldn’t see them until they came flying round with tyres smoking
