Hi guys, I’ve done a search and can’t find the answer to my question.
Basically my previous company used to allow us 15 mins from clocking in for us to insert our tachos (analogue or digital). Anything after the 15 minute period we were required to do a manual entry.This also applied to removal of tacho and clocking off.
I have since left that company and my new employer are not very ‘strict’ on this practice. Mates from the previous company have told me the company are now insisting manual entries are always done to record every working minute.
Is this just a case of them wanting to make their job easier of tracking working time?
How long are we legally allowed between start/end of shift and insertion/removal of tacho before a manual entry is required?
TerryB:
Hi guys, I’ve done a search and can’t find the answer to my question.
Basically my previous company used to allow us 15 mins from clocking in for us to insert our tachos (analogue or digital). Anything after the 15 minute period we were required to do a manual entry.This also applied to removal of tacho and clocking off.
I have since left that company and my new employer are not very ‘strict’ on this practice. Mates from the previous company have told me the company are now insisting manual entries are always done to record every working minute.
Is this just a case of them wanting to make their job easier of tracking working time?
How long are we legally allowed between start/end of shift and insertion/removal of tacho before a manual entry is required?
You’re not allowed any duty time that should not be recorded either automatically or manually, legally manual entries should made to cover any time you’re on duty that’s not automatically recorded by the tachograph.
It could be a case of them making it easier to track working time or it could be that they’ve realised that they were not complying with the regulations
Thanks
So it looks like my new employer and not complying with the law then.
So if I clock in at 3am and get to my vehicle by 3:02am I have to out a manual entry even on an analogue?
TerryB:
Thanks
So it looks like my new employer and not complying with the law then.
So if I clock in at 3am and get to my vehicle by 3:02am I have to out a manual entry even on an analogue?
Well, technically yes you should do a manual entry but to be honest I’ve no idea how seriously VOSA would take the missing couple of minutes.
By the way it’s not just your employer who’s breaking the law, it’s the divers responsibility to make sure you record your daily activities correctly so you are not complying with the regulations either
Shouldn’t worry about it though, I won’t tell VOSA if you don’t
TerryB:
Thanks
So it looks like my new employer and not complying with the law then.
So if I clock in at 3am and get to my vehicle by 3:02am I have to out a manual entry even on an analogue?
By the letter of the law, yes.
In practice if you start at 0300 and put your card in at any time up to about 0315 then I would just mark a line on the front of the chart at 0300 and write “start 0300” on it. It would normally be assumed that the gap between the line and the start of the trace is “other work”.
I’m quite happy to record all working time tbh, With my previous employer they had us putting a line on the face of analogue tachos to show start and end of day. I asked this when starting with the new firm who said they don’t really bother.
We’ve just had a company take over our tacho logging now. The digi card is read and sent to them in Scotland and the analgoues are scanned and sent.
I got an infringement from them for last month. I only had a 24 minute break within a 4:46 min driving period, I explained I had done 2 printouts and written my explanation. I had set off to do a 20 minute drive from Leeds to Bradford but it ended up taking 1:20 due to the snow that came down, When I left Leeds i’d done 3:26 driving. The transport manager said there was no way of sending the printouts to the outside firm dealing with tachos
TerryB:
Thanks
So it looks like my new employer and not complying with the law then.
So if I clock in at 3am and get to my vehicle by 3:02am I have to out a manual entry even on an analogue?
By the letter of the law, yes.
In practice if you start at 0300 and put your card in at any time up to about 0315 then I would just mark a line on the front of the chart at 0300 and write “start 0300” on it. It would normally be assumed that the gap between the line and the start of the trace is “other work”.
Paul
I was going to make the point it is kind of hard to trace a 2-3min work period by hand. atm my unit is a 54 plate Merc so I am mostly using analogue. When I do get a digi unit god help me as I will have forgotten how to do a manual
TerryB:
I’m a bad boy
Is working time governed by VOSA?
If you mean the working time regulations then theoretically yes VOSA are charged with enforcing it, but to be honest they’re no more interested in the WTD than the rest of us are, as far as the WTD is concerned it’s really only your company you need to bother about.
TerryB:
I’m quite happy to record all working time tbh, With my previous employer they had us putting a line on the face of analogue tachos to show start and end of day. I asked this when starting with the new firm who said they don’t really bother.
In that case I think VOSA would be happy with that, I hope so anyway because that’s what I’ve always done when I’ve used charts.
i have just been pulled up for not showing manuel entries like op i start at 04.00 by time i get tacho ( disk ) in head its always a min or two i always draw line at 04.00 and write EDR ( end daily rest) or ( EWR end weekly rest ) and same when i finish SDR or SWR i was told by my last employers ( COOP chelston ) driver trainer that aslong as it was under 15 mins had no need to write on the back if it was over then 15 mins then do a manual entry, well now the women who checks are tachos at mole valley has told me that i havnt shown no manual entries and i said yea got no need there all under 15 mins and she said wrong !! Transport manager shrugged shoulders another driver said he dont write nowt on his so i just said how does VOSA want us to do it so then in my opinion then its legal they all just looked at me lol !! any ideas guys on what vosa would say ■■
pimmer73:
any ideas guys on what vosa would say ■■
Well I do the same as you (less than 15min and I don’t bother making a manual entry on an analogue chart) and when I was pulled over the other month by VOSA they took them all off for checking and they came back all clear. So that is what I shall continue to do.
pimmer73:
any ideas guys on what vosa would say ■■
Well I do the same as you (less than 15min and I don’t bother making a manual entry on an analogue chart) and when I was pulled over the other month by VOSA they took them all off for checking and they came back all clear. So that is what I shall continue to do.
pimmer73:
any ideas guys on what vosa would say ■■
Have a look in the GV262 - examples are in there. Easiest way if it’s just a couple of minutes is write the time i.e EDR 05:00. Your chart starts recording 05:03 and all well. The 3 minutes between EDR and recording are obviously work.
To be honest - on most brands of chart the smallest division of time for entering a manual entry will be 5 minutes really - most charts probably 15 minutes
I reckon what you are doing is spot on.
obviously - if you were on digital, a quick manual entry via the buttons and its done.
TerryB:
So it’s ok for a company to dictate when and where a break is taken?
As long as you can have the breaks that’s legally required I don’t see that it’s of any concern of VOSA where or when you have them.
I’ve worked at a few places on trunk runs where the company expect the driver to have the break at one of the deliveries or back at base, depending on the company I usually take the breaks where I want as long as it doesn’t upset the planning.
Rules are after-all made to be broken or at-least bent a bit
Look at it this way, if you worked in a factory/warehouse/office would you expect to choose where or when you had your breaks ?
I agree with set times for breaks when working on site. This company are expecting people to do one run from Trafford Park to St Helens and back. Have their 45 minute break which is usually about 3 hours after start of shift.
My mate has been having his break outside the depot at Leeds on his second run. So he’s done a St Helens and back then picked up his second trailer and headed up to Leeds and had his 45 minute break outside the depot. He does it this way to beat the early morning traffic on the M62.
When I worked for the company I was on multi drop so I could take my break anywhere on the run really. I’m not at a firm that don’t have isotrak so I can take my break when and where I like as long as I meet delivery times.
i usually start a 5:30am but don’t insert digi-card until 6.00am as i’m strapping loads that night shift loaded, i alway do manual entry from 5:30am that day and entries for cross hammers done after i left vehicle previous evening, when the head unit asks when last removed / end of shift…
