As already mentioned, neither are great. Both have plus points over the other but not by much. If it had to be one or the other then I’d choose the MAN.
For me, the Renault feels like you’re driving with your nose against the screen. I know the majority of the running gear is Volvo but the rest is clearly French and feels French.
Quinny:
Having driven Premiums a plenty since the slap across box days, and am currently piloting a T Range, there are a lot of people who are badge snobs when it comes to them. Yes they may not have the cross cab access of the MAN, but pound for pound they are the better motor.In my opinion, they suffer no worse than the MAN for faults, but one must remember they were designed as a fleet motor for the penny pinchers, but did come with extras if you are lucky enough to find one. If you want an upgrade, then maybe a Magnum is the way forward.
Things to watch for are electrical warnings, which are usually not there as the French electrics have a mind of their own, the lower steps tend to get battered, as do the side air deflectors, but apart form that, not much. They have probably one of the best sound systems out there, the bed is comfy, although not up to DAF standard.
Oh, and when you exit the vehicle, take your keys out of the ignition. I have known some to lock themselves with the keys inside as you can catch the door lever on the way out knocking it down.
Thank you for the info… very well put.
Ken.
eagerbeaver:
For similar money, can you not get a DAF XF?Better truck all round than the two that you have mentioned (both crap).
I honestly don’t know what is good in a DAF. Dealer service here is poor or not available… spares hard to find… even though I have seen some very old ones and I mean old still going strong on our roads but these belong to a very big fleet operators. Renault have a dealer and I heard our Volvo dealer also services them.
MAN gets bad reports, but in my experience if specified correctly for the job and with drivers who actually give a bugger are far better than one might think from what some drivers say, i’d gladly have another but specified better for the job in hand.
440 isn’t up to max weight work IMHO, and it will give cooling problems if not looked after really well, i could write a book on waterwork probs but our vehicles were wrongly specced when new the 440 engine simply isn’t up to running 44 ton day and night, but then underspecifying (or rather one spec fits all) lorries seems to be a national disease so one can hardly blame any maker for supplying a too small engine if thats what the customer requires, you wouldn’t specify a 1.6 PSA Diesel to power a Range Rover towing a bloody great boat so why expect an underpowered undersized lorry engine to cope when its having to work too hard constantly, but as mere drivers we don’t know anything 
Having said that, mine has done well over 1/2 million K’s now and the engine is sweet and quiet, from cold too, which is more than can be said for some of the so called premium makes we have which sound like a bag of spanners and drink oil like its about to be banned and have seen several new gearboxes between them.
Despite predictions here of doom no turbo failures, though i do allow it warm up and cool down, the cab is a bit brittle except for the indicator self cancel pawl which is made out of kryptonite or summat, cos i;d like it to break but the bloody thing is tough as hell.
It doesn’t blow bulbs, which are easy to change anyway.
The exhaust brake needs annual adjusting up but works well, in all that mileage i’ve just had the third set of drive axle pads fitted and 1/2 through the second set on steer axle, original mid lift pads, no new discs fitted, a good O/D could get the full 1/2mill from one set but ours get used by every tom ■■■■ and igor when we’re not on shift and you can tell from the thick black carbon round the wheels when you come back after 2 days off that its been driven on the brakes by idiots.
No suspension or other problems, couple of chafed wires which needed sorting, simple fixes, all in all mine has been a decent lorry and i would have no complaints if i’d leased it meself, the main dealer workshops have looked after mine well always fixing things without me having to ask but i present it in the sort of condition a mechanic would want to work on.
The 480 engine in comparison from all i hear is pretty well trouble free, so if you want an MAN try to find one of those instead.
Arsetronic gearbox is one of the most horrible to drive made, but it is superbly reliable and durable, it just keeps going, something other makers who get raved about on here as the holy grail can’t lay claim to, in MAN’s the release bearings are inclined to drop apart at 1/2 a million kms, so if my experience is anything to go by, if you detect clutch judder when reversing and the mileage is getting to 1/2 mill, consider shoving it in for a new clutch and thrust bearing cos when it goes there is no prior warning and its a tow in job.
rosambili:
eagerbeaver:
For similar money, can you not get a DAF XF?Better truck all round than the two that you have mentioned (both crap).
I honestly don’t know what is good in a DAF. Dealer service here is poor or not available… spares hard to find… even though I have seen some very old ones and I mean old still going strong on our roads but these belong to a very big fleet operators. Renault have a dealer and I heard our Volvo dealer also services them.
Where are you based, seen the photos and pretty sure it ain’t the UK or even Europe?
Juddian:
MAN gets bad reports, but in my experience if specified correctly for the job and with drivers who actually give a bugger are far better than one might think from what some drivers say, i’d gladly have another but specified better for the job in hand.440 isn’t up to max weight work IMHO, and it will give cooling problems if not looked after really well, i could write a book on waterwork probs but our vehicles were wrongly specced when new the 440 engine simply isn’t up to running 44 ton day and night, but then underspecifying (or rather one spec fits all) lorries seems to be a national disease so one can hardly blame any maker for supplying a too small engine if thats what the customer requires, you wouldn’t specify a 1.6 PSA Diesel to power a Range Rover towing a bloody great boat so why expect an underpowered undersized lorry engine to cope when its having to work too hard constantly, but as mere drivers we don’t know anything
Having said that, mine has done well over 1/2 million K’s now and the engine is sweet and quiet, from cold too, which is more than can be said for some of the so called premium makes we have which sound like a bag of spanners and drink oil like its about to be banned and have seen several new gearboxes between them.
Despite predictions here of doom no turbo failures, though i do allow it warm up and cool down, the cab is a bit brittle except for the indicator self cancel pawl which is made out of kryptonite or summat, cos i;d like it to break but the bloody thing is tough as hell.
It doesn’t blow bulbs, which are easy to change anyway.
The exhaust brake needs annual adjusting up but works well, in all that mileage i’ve just had the third set of drive axle pads fitted and 1/2 through the second set on steer axle, original mid lift pads, no new discs fitted, a good O/D could get the full 1/2mill from one set but ours get used by every tom ■■■■ and igor when we’re not on shift and you can tell from the thick black carbon round the wheels when you come back after 2 days off that its been driven on the brakes by idiots.
No suspension or other problems, couple of chafed wires which needed sorting, simple fixes, all in all mine has been a decent lorry and i would have no complaints if i’d leased it meself, the main dealer workshops have looked after mine well always fixing things without me having to ask but i present it in the sort of condition a mechanic would want to work on.The 480 engine in comparison from all i hear is pretty well trouble free, so if you want an MAN try to find one of those instead.
Arsetronic gearbox is one of the most horrible to drive made, but it is superbly reliable and durable, it just keeps going, something other makers who get raved about on here as the holy grail can’t lay claim to, in MAN’s the release bearings are inclined to drop apart at 1/2 a million kms, so if my experience is anything to go by, if you detect clutch judder when reversing and the mileage is getting to 1/2 mill, consider shoving it in for a new clutch and thrust bearing cos when it goes there is no prior warning and its a tow in job.
TBH unless the terrain is arduous a 440 BHP engine, on paper, should be more than adequate for running at 44t. I do appreciate in reality the number on the grill doesn’t necessarily match up to performance.
rosambili:
eagerbeaver:
For similar money, can you not get a DAF XF?Better truck all round than the two that you have mentioned (both crap).
I honestly don’t know what is good in a DAF. Dealer service here is poor or not available… spares hard to find… even though I have seen some very old ones and I mean old still going strong on our roads but these belong to a very big fleet operators. Renault have a dealer and I heard our Volvo dealer also services them.
You won’t get a DAF XF for similar money to the other two though either and they’re not as good as they used to be the trucks of the nineties don’t last like the eighties ones did.
muckles:
rosambili:
eagerbeaver:
For similar money, can you not get a DAF XF?Better truck all round than the two that you have mentioned (both crap).
I honestly don’t know what is good in a DAF. Dealer service here is poor or not available… spares hard to find… even though I have seen some very old ones and I mean old still going strong on our roads but these belong to a very big fleet operators. Renault have a dealer and I heard our Volvo dealer also services them.
Where are you based, seen the photos and pretty sure it ain’t the UK or even Europe?
You are correct man… Am based in Kenya, East Africa. The land of Hakuna matata… I have purchased several trucks from the UK. The Walkers and Pawson mainly. Despite a few ABC… Kenyans love European trucks. They are practical and get the Job done while at the same time fuel efficient and comfortable also not forgetting pocket friendly. Majority of the people here like twin tires on the Trailer tri-axles. Most popular truck here is The Actros MP1, MP2 & MP3 but very expensive but worth it. Mp4s have started coming here too. Everyone including me wants an Actros but not everybody can afford its price tag. The equation is like this; 1 Actros = 2 Renault Premiums/Man or 1 Actros = 1 Renault Premium/Man + 1 skelly trailer. If you ask me I like killing two birds with one stone. Mercedes have been here before I was born and have dominated the market… Truly the star shines much better here.
I used to drive a MAN, Good to drive but boss found it expensive to maintain.
Now drive this Premium, Good drive, draging these things around France, Spain and Portugal. Comfortable and relaxed driving position.
Crap to spend a week or two away in, not much living, and storage space
Juddian:
MAN gets bad reports, but in my experience if specified correctly for the job and with drivers who actually give a bugger are far better than one might think from what some drivers say, i’d gladly have another but specified better for the job in hand.440 isn’t up to max weight work IMHO, and it will give cooling problems if not looked after really well, i could write a book on waterwork probs but our vehicles were wrongly specced when new the 440 engine simply isn’t up to running 44 ton day and night, but then underspecifying (or rather one spec fits all) lorries seems to be a national disease so one can hardly blame any maker for supplying a too small engine if thats what the customer requires, you wouldn’t specify a 1.6 PSA Diesel to power a Range Rover towing a bloody great boat so why expect an underpowered undersized lorry engine to cope when its having to work too hard constantly, but as mere drivers we don’t know anything
Having said that, mine has done well over 1/2 million K’s now and the engine is sweet and quiet, from cold too, which is more than can be said for some of the so called premium makes we have which sound like a bag of spanners and drink oil like its about to be banned and have seen several new gearboxes between them.
Despite predictions here of doom no turbo failures, though i do allow it warm up and cool down, the cab is a bit brittle except for the indicator self cancel pawl which is made out of kryptonite or summat, cos i;d like it to break but the bloody thing is tough as hell.
It doesn’t blow bulbs, which are easy to change anyway.
The exhaust brake needs annual adjusting up but works well, in all that mileage i’ve just had the third set of drive axle pads fitted and 1/2 through the second set on steer axle, original mid lift pads, no new discs fitted, a good O/D could get the full 1/2mill from one set but ours get used by every tom ■■■■ and igor when we’re not on shift and you can tell from the thick black carbon round the wheels when you come back after 2 days off that its been driven on the brakes by idiots.
No suspension or other problems, couple of chafed wires which needed sorting, simple fixes, all in all mine has been a decent lorry and i would have no complaints if i’d leased it meself, the main dealer workshops have looked after mine well always fixing things without me having to ask but i present it in the sort of condition a mechanic would want to work on.The 480 engine in comparison from all i hear is pretty well trouble free, so if you want an MAN try to find one of those instead.
Arsetronic gearbox is one of the most horrible to drive made, but it is superbly reliable and durable, it just keeps going, something other makers who get raved about on here as the holy grail can’t lay claim to, in MAN’s the release bearings are inclined to drop apart at 1/2 a million kms, so if my experience is anything to go by, if you detect clutch judder when reversing and the mileage is getting to 1/2 mill, consider shoving it in for a new clutch and thrust bearing cos when it goes there is no prior warning and its a tow in job.
I wonder which 440 TGX or TGA? If TGX is it the one with Twin Turbor and Two water cooled inter-coolers? Please Clarify at what GCW the 440 is specified to operate with. Never the less I do agree with you despite the fact that the ZF-ASRONIC being a horrible drive, it’s less problematic, reliable and durable. Oops! I almost forgot… 480 TGA with EGR very problematic engine the 440 TGA is far much better. Are the 480 TGX with EGR and how do they perform ?
SteveWalsh:
I used to drive a MAN, Good to drive but boss found it expensive to maintain.Now drive this Premium, Good drive, draging these things around France, Spain and Portugal. Comfortable and relaxed driving position.
Crap to spend a week or two away in, not much living, and storage space
Nice truck and trailer. Why do you prefer single drive 4x2… I though a 6x2 mid-lift would be better… more paylod and relieves the drive axle twin air-bags from excessive load. Any day a 6x2 mid-lift would be my preferred choice… I’ll be sure of not exceeding legal axle load limits.
rosambili:
SteveWalsh:
I used to drive a MAN, Good to drive but boss found it expensive to maintain.Now drive this Premium, Good drive, draging these things around France, Spain and Portugal. Comfortable and relaxed driving position.
Crap to spend a week or two away in, not much living, and storage space
Nice truck and trailer. Why do you prefer single drive 4x2… I though a 6x2 mid-lift would be better… more paylod and relieves the drive axle twin air-bags from excessive load. Any day a 6x2 mid-lift would be my preferred choice… I’ll be sure of not exceeding legal axle load limits.
I dont need the weight carrying capacity, these mobiles only weigh about 5000-7000kg, our main problem (apart from the size, around 4 metres wide) is wind resistance, mine is a 460 and sometimes struggles on very steep gradients
rosambili:
muckles:
rosambili:
eagerbeaver:
For similar money, can you not get a DAF XF?Better truck all round than the two that you have mentioned (both crap).
I honestly don’t know what is good in a DAF. Dealer service here is poor or not available… spares hard to find… even though I have seen some very old ones and I mean old still going strong on our roads but these belong to a very big fleet operators. Renault have a dealer and I heard our Volvo dealer also services them.
Where are you based, seen the photos and pretty sure it ain’t the UK or even Europe?
You are correct man… Am based in Kenya, East Africa. The land of Hakuna matata… I have purchased several trucks from the UK. The Walkers and Pawson mainly. Despite a few ABC… Kenyans love European trucks. They are practical and get the Job done while at the same time fuel efficient and comfortable also not forgetting pocket friendly. Majority of the people here like twin tires on the Trailer tri-axles. Most popular truck here is The Actros MP1, MP2 & MP3 but very expensive but worth it. Mp4s have started coming here too. Everyone including me wants an Actros but not everybody can afford its price tag. The equation is like this; 1 Actros = 2 Renault Premiums/Man or 1 Actros = 1 Renault Premium/Man + 1 skelly trailer. If you ask me I like killing two birds with one stone. Mercedes have been here before I was born and have dominated the market… Truly the star shines much better here.
I understand what you say about Mercs, sold a 10 year old MP2 to an exporter earlier this year and got far more than I thought I’d get.
You ought to do a photo diary, be interesting to see how haulage in another part of the World and what the similarities and differences are.
Can you still run stuff with Fuller gearboxes in Kenya, if so I know a top driver we could send you. He wants a bit of international experience. 
I understand what you say about Mercs, sold a 10 year old MP2 to an exporter earlier this year and got far more than I thought I’d get.
You ought to do a photo diary, be interesting to see how haulage in another part of the World and what the similarities and differences are.
Can you still run stuff with Fuller gearboxes in Kenya, if so I know a top driver we could send you. He wants a bit of international experience.
[/quote]
I actually don’t understand what you mean by fuller gearboxes… what are they? Well our Gross combined weight for our truck; 6x2 = 48T @ 8T per axle. We do grouped axle weighing. 1st axle steer, 2nd(midlift) + 3rd(diff) then 5th + 6th + 7th(trailer) = 48T total. We have very very old trucks here still on the road. As old as from 1988… mostly the early Mercedes Long nose trucks doing shunting work.
Cant comment on the Renault as ive never driven one but out of the two on paper would say theyre pretty evenly matched. The Renault has the advantage of the Volvo engine and gearbox but can suffer with dodgy electrics as their cars do. The only MAN ive driven was a 19.462 with the 17 litre V10 and that was a monster of a machine,i bought that at 12 months old and apart from a few very very minor issues it was trouble free over many many journeys all over europe.
If the MAN 440 has water cooled intercoolers i think id be tempted to avoid as theyre not as efficient as air to air plus theres the extra plumbing involved mean more maintenance and expenditure as they get older.
AndrewG:
Cant comment on the Renault as ive never driven one but out of the two on paper would say theyre pretty evenly matched. The Renault has the advantage of the Volvo engine and gearbox but can suffer with dodgy electrics as their cars do. The only MAN ive driven was a 19.462 with the 17 litre V10 and that was a monster of a machine,i bought that at 12 months old and apart from a few very very minor issues it was trouble free over many many journeys all over europe.
If the MAN 440 has water cooled intercoolers i think id be tempted to avoid as theyre not as efficient as air to air plus theres the extra plumbing involved mean more maintenance and expenditure as they get older.
What is likely to go wrong with water cooled intercoolers compared to air to air intercoolers?
AndrewG’s 462 mentioned above, F90?
F90 and previous MAN’s cannot be compared in any way to the fragile overcomplicated and relatively gutless things wearing the same badge today, even the smaller engined versions, such as previous cabbed 331 and F90 332 which i used for many years on nights with lightish loads, were pretty well bomb proof, though the whole fleet was fitted with Eaton Twin Splitters which were just about the perfect gearbox to make best use of the rapid rate that MAN engines could drop and raise revs, despite running at speeds well over 70 for hours on end and every tom ■■■■ and harry abusing them by thrashing them mercilessly, plus playing every tune known to man on the gearboxes, they simply refused to go wrong.
rosambili:
What is likely to go wrong with water cooled intercoolers compared to air to air intercoolers?
Rot so if you’re lucky you get a coolant leak, warning light comes on, you’re sat at the side of the road. Worst case scenario it fails and ■■■■■ coolant into the intake, hydraulics the engine and then its a new engine.
I had the dubious honour of a Premium 460 today. I think I would rather be broken down in comfort than listening to that rattling engine all day and feeling like a tramp in a bus shelter. 
Just a bit nasty I felt.
Conor:
rosambili:
What is likely to go wrong with water cooled intercoolers compared to air to air intercoolers?Rot so if you’re lucky you get a coolant leak, warning light comes on, you’re sat at the side of the road. Worst case scenario it fails and ■■■■■ coolant into the intake, hydraulics the engine and then its a new engine.
Lol… Hydraulic engine? I like your sense of humor never the less having coolant being sucked in to the engine is pretty scary. I can imagine the worst case scenario.
