Having read the relevant VAT notice about MTD for VAT when it arrived and consigned it to the bin because I am below the threshold, following a conversation today I see that this is a roll out programme over the next four years, which will extend to the complete accounting system every business uses and that the turnover concession will vanish.
I found this link below very revealing about the discrepancy between the cost likely to be encountered, to comply with the directive, published by the government and reality. The morons in the government are claiming £70 a year for 4 years. One of their calculations is that the total cost of setting up the system and lost sales while training to operate the software amounts to £5.60 an hour. Who the ■■■■ is charging out their labour at £5.60 an hour FFS?
Apparently the accounting industry reckons that the true cost over 4 years is going to be more like £5000. The conversation I had earlier came up with a figure far in excess of this figure, because it seems that not only is the software expensive but new hardware is likely to be needed as well because of the processing power needed to run the software.
I’m ignoring it and seeing what will happen. We’ll be trading for one month, our software doesn’t support it so there is no way I’m going to be spending money on it. Life on the edge, eh?
Whole thing seems mental. To be honest it’s just not feasible until the whole lot’s properly automated probably by banks providing the software where you just go down the transactions online and mark them as fuel, rent, rates etc. then it does it all automatically and communicates with HMRC.
The whole photgraphing receipts and uploading them with a smartphone is nuts. Granted it’s nuts in a digital age there’s still all paper receipts and invoices. Vat registered businesses should just be paying for everything the buy input wise ex vat and taking all payments electronically where 20% is directly skimmed off and goes to HMRC. With the number of businesses that take very much cash in terminal decline they should probably push the onerous accounting on to those remaining businesses whilst any that are 100% electronic payment probably shouldn’t be having any need to do vat returns at all.
Would have thought there’s thousands of businesses with no real readiness for this if they don’t use an account so may well get kicked into the long grass.
cav551:
Having read the relevant VAT notice about MTD for VAT when it arrived and consigned it to the bin because I am below the threshold, following a conversation today I see that this is a roll out programme over the next four years, which will extend to the complete accounting system every business uses and that the turnover concession will vanish.
I found this link below very revealing about the discrepancy between the cost likely to be encountered, to comply with the directive, published by the government and reality. The morons in the government are claiming £70 a year for 4 years. One of their calculations is that the total cost of setting up the system and lost sales while training to operate the software amounts to £5.60 an hour. Who the [zb] is charging out their labour at £5.60 an hour FFS?
Apparently the accounting industry reckons that the true cost over 4 years is going to be more like £5000. The conversation I had earlier came up with a figure far in excess of this figure, because it seems that not only is the software expensive but new hardware is likely to be needed as well because of the processing power needed to run the software.
We are above the limit but as a small company employing myself, 2 sons and a couple of part timers we are not into mega bucks. Unfortunately I have picked up / been left with the admin side and have tried sage and quickbooks in the past. Can handle the operating alright but I have a personal thing with their constant manouvering / “updating” to extract more money from you, made worse (or better for for them) by the move to purely online versions, so ended up going back to spreadsheets a couple of years ago. I looked into this MTD thing and found a small UK firm that produces an accounting package that does, in my opinion, everything a small firm would need. Same sort of interface as quickbooks and the like. They are called adminsoft and you can either use it free (with some adverts) or buy it outright. It is stand alone on your PC, whether free or bought, so no continuing subscriptions etc. I have no connection with them other than as a user.
I believe also you can get some sort of software / app that will basically interact with the HMRC portal and let you put your spreadsheet outputs / manual addups into it. Do not know anything about them though as I decided to go down the adminsoft route.
I suspect my hourly rate, when sorting this out is far less than £5-60 too, basically £0-00 as I am doing it on top of what I did before and getting nothing for it
albion:
I’m ignoring it and seeing what will happen. We’ll be trading for one month, our software doesn’t support it so there is no way I’m going to be spending money on it. Life on the edge, eh?
My post above might be handy for when you can’t keep away and start up again
cav551:
Having read the relevant VAT notice about MTD for VAT when it arrived and consigned it to the bin because I am below the threshold, following a conversation today I see that this is a roll out programme over the next four years, which will extend to the complete accounting system every business uses and that the turnover concession will vanish.
I found this link below very revealing about the discrepancy between the cost likely to be encountered, to comply with the directive, published by the government and reality. The morons in the government are claiming £70 a year for 4 years. One of their calculations is that the total cost of setting up the system and lost sales while training to operate the software amounts to £5.60 an hour. Who the [zb] is charging out their labour at £5.60 an hour FFS?
Apparently the accounting industry reckons that the true cost over 4 years is going to be more like £5000. The conversation I had earlier came up with a figure far in excess of this figure, because it seems that not only is the software expensive but new hardware is likely to be needed as well because of the processing power needed to run the software.
We are above the limit but as a small company employing myself, 2 sons and a couple of part timers we are not into mega bucks. Unfortunately I have picked up / been left with the admin side and have tried sage and quickbooks in the past. Can handle the operating alright but I have a personal thing with their constant manouvering / “updating” to extract more money from you, made worse (or better for for them) by the move to purely online versions, so ended up going back to spreadsheets a couple of years ago. I looked into this MTD thing and found a small UK firm that produces an accounting package that does, in my opinion, everything a small firm would need. Same sort of interface as quickbooks and the like. They are called adminsoft and you can either use it free (with some adverts) or buy it outright. It is stand alone on your PC, whether free or bought, so no continuing subscriptions etc. I have no connection with them other than as a user.
I believe also you can get some sort of software / app that will basically interact with the HMRC portal and let you put your spreadsheet outputs / manual addups into it. Do not know anything about them though as I decided to go down the adminsoft route.
I suspect my hourly rate, when sorting this out is far less than £5-60 too, basically £0-00 as I am doing it on top of what I did before and getting nothing for it
I think you are only allowed to use an app that converts from a spreadsheet for a max of 12 months transition.
Bridging software can only be used during the transitional period so you would have to go down the route of a full setup eventually, i.ve always done my own VAT but im past learning it all again so im just going to give the accountant a big envelope every month with all the receipts /invoices and let him do it all
albion:
I’m ignoring it and seeing what will happen. We’ll be trading for one month, our software doesn’t support it so there is no way I’m going to be spending money on it. Life on the edge, eh?
My post above might be handy for when you can’t keep away and start up again
Please tell me I could not be that stupid a second time.
Though the proof of the pudding will be in a couple of years time
chaversdad:
Bridging software can only be used during the transitional period so you would have to go down the route of a full setup eventually, i.ve always done my own VAT but im past learning it all again so im just going to give the accountant a big envelope every month with all the receipts /invoices and let him do it all
I think that I will be doing the same. I set up a simple and perfectly use’able spreadsheet on Excel when it came free and then Openoffice when they started charging, two accountants have found it perfectly acceptable for year end accounts.Now HMRC in their wisdom have decided that practically all VAT registered traders will have another cost added, have they got
shares in these software companies?
matamoros:
I think that I will be doing the same. I set up a simple and perfectly use’able spreadsheet on Excel when it came free and then Openoffice when they started charging, two accountants have found it perfectly acceptable for year end accounts.Now HMRC in their wisdom have decided that practically all VAT registered traders will have another cost added, have they got
shares in these software companies?
Probably not, but it’s certainly in their interest to almost force everybody into using a “standard” method, giving them more and more of an opportunity / ease of access to delve into your affairs and extract money Or am I being cynical
That free program I mentioned above seems OK.
Speedy Duck:
Hi Manski
Have you used adminsoft? I’d be interested in your review of it off you would kindly do so
Thanks SD
We are getting it up and running now so if I do not post in the next week or so please feel free to prompt me, the shove would probably help So far it seems to me that it does everything that quickboots, zero etc. do. Spoke to my accountants and, although they push zero a bit, said it should be no problem to pull out what they want from it to do Ltd co accounts. At the end of the day they are all basically linked spreadsheets underneath as I understand it.
Speedy Duck:
How are you getting on with it Manski?
I’d appreciate any comments about it you can offer, good or bad. Are the adverts a pain?
Thanks again
SD
To be honest I have not done a lot too many diversions but really I would say that if you used quickbooks, sage, xero or something like that before then this is very similar in operation. If you are upgrading from spreadsheets or paper then you have no more to learn than if you were moving on to xero etc. It is possible that you would get better / more support from xero etc. but it would be at a cost (quite a cost if I remember from when we had quickbooks). Any book keeper / accounts person that has ever used any of the mainstream accounting programs would pick this up quickly. There is quite a good forum associated with adminsoft and they are actual users contributing. I do find the adverts a bit of a pain, also when you close the program down it always opens the adminsoft website so I will probably buy the program.
Sorry I can’t really tell you any more, like I said I have a few other things to distract me lately unfortunately.
Bumping this since I was witness to the hassle and time taken by a company trying to complete their first VAT return with the new on-line ‘live reporting’ system and difficulties with the software. For those affected - fortunately I am exempt- make sure you allow yourself plenty of time to do this and not discover a problem on the last day.
Or am I being cynical 
too many diversions 