There was only 3 “vertically integrated manufacturers” during this time, Foden, Leyland & AEC although both Leyland and AEC were prolific suppliers of engines to other vehicle manufacturers ( No vehicle builder in their right mind would want to use a Foden 2 stroke !) So Lads apart from the two I have mentioned which of the loose engine suppliers were the most successful and prolific in the numbers of engines supplied during the period ? Cheers Bewick.
I don’t really understand the question Dennis? BMC/Bedford/Rootes/Dennis/Ford etc all made engines at this time, BMC did supply them to other users of course.
Pete.
…or do you men firms like Gardner, Perkins, Meadows, Dorman etc?
windrush:
I don’t really understand the question Dennis? BMC/Bedford/Rootes/Dennis/Ford etc all made engines at this time, BMC did supply them to other users of course.Pete.
Yes Pete I did mean to stimulate response without rhyming off all the different engine suppliers some of which you have mentioned and for instance both Ford and BMC supplied engines to JCB in earlier years and AEC supplied engines to Atkinson and Guy as Leyland did to Seddon and Foden. Just wanted to create another thread which may catch some interest ! Cheers Dennis.
fodenway:
…or do you men firms like Gardner, Perkins, Meadows, Dorman etc?
Yes I certainly did “fodenway” Cheers Bewick.
Well maybe not the best of ideas for a new thread then ! 
Cheers Bewick.
Well I suppose that Gardner and Perkins were the two most prolific engines used, and Dorman seemed to be fitted in a few of the lighter vehicle ranges including Commer, and George Neville also converted some O Type Bedfords to Dorman power and they were actually road tested by CM here in Matlock and performed well. Dennis fitted the BMC 5.1 engine as an option to Perkins as their own quite advanced (for the fifties) diesel didn’t really ‘take off’ and Iron Fairy cranes had them as well. Of course Morris fitted Saurer diesels before they developed their own which were very similar in certain parts, probably why the fuel pump etc were also fitted on the right hand side which didn’t make it easy for us fitters! 
Meadows seemed popular with Guy Motors, local support I suppose, but I have never heard of them being a great success? Sentinel were another engine maker that died a death of course.
Pete.
Didn’t Bristol make their own engines, before adopting the Leyland 0.600 and AEC lumps? Though I appreciate they wouldn’t have supplied loose engines.
ERF-NGC-European:
Didn’t Bristol make their own engines, before adopting the Leyland 0.600 and AEC lumps? Though I appreciate they wouldn’t have supplied loose engines.
Yes I think Bristiol did, Crossley and Daimler did of course with limited success. I took a pic of the Ruston Hornsby aircooled engine installed in a bus, again with not a great result! Even Fowler made a few trucks with their own diesel engine, and there was Maclaren as well!
Pete.
AEC supplied engines to Atkinson, Dodge and Guy and obviously carried on supplying Guy after they became part of the Leyland Group. Leyland were major suppliers to Seddon at one time as well as being engine suppliers to Foden. Leyland were also major shareholders in Fodens IIRC and then ERF used the Perkins 6:354 engine in their lightweight competitive 16 ton 4 wheeler. Just a few I can recall ! Cheers Dennis.
Perkins became the main loose engine market supplier to the lightweight and medium weight sectors. Its first engine, the 4-cylinder Vixen diesel engine was designed in 1932 as a replacement unit for petrol engines in lorries. In those days there wasn’t any excise duty on diesel fuel, but that soon changed when the popularity of diesel engines took off. Perkins P4 and P6 engines were introduced in the late 1930s. Post-war and Bedford fitted the P6 as a factory option in the S-Type before it designed and built its own diesel engine. Seddon used the P6 in its Mark 5 and other models, as did Commer, Dodge etc.
■■■■■■■ became available from 1958 in the heavy market, they had been a retro-fit engine for such as Wynns before then, but Shotts built ■■■■■■■ (to American designs) were available from 1958, Seddon being the first to offer them as factory fitted options in SD4, SD6, and SD8 / DD8 models. Then don’t forget Rolls Royce in the early '60s, ERF was probably the first to offer them, or maybe Atkinson, does anyone know for certain?
A final point about Perkins, it achieved huge export sales for years, and still does as part of Caterpillar. It’s never mentioned much these days. If you’re bored during lockdown have a look at its website, it has put some games on for children whilst they’re at home. I’m going to have a go at some of them later. 
I may stand to be corrected but I’m sure Barton’s Transport from Nottingham were the first to fit a “loose” Gardner engine in a
Lancia bus chassis this was in the 30s though I believe
Thus the beginning of Gardner becoming a “loose” engine supplier
AEC supplied Atkinson with engines during WW2 and Dodge LAD tractor units had an AEC option. Early KM Bedfords used the Leyland 350/ 375 derivatives. Depending on what we consider relevant to the thread Iveco are one of the biggest loose engine suppliers historically, but limiting scope to road vehicles then Deutz engines were IIRC a Ford option in the 28 ton tractor unit. Counting auxilary engines then Mixer chassis used Deutz, Ford and BMC and Tipper trailers had Lister and Petter donkey engines.
I would have thought ■■■■■■■ must have been one of the largest suppliers of engines to various manufacturers.
Click on page twice.
If we’re moving on to the US loose engines, Caterpillar comes to mind but I’m not sure they go as far back as the '60s in the UK. They were here in import White units in the '70s (280s with 9-sp Fullers) and Foden used them. Detroit is another more likely suspect and they were certainly around by the '70s. ERF later used Detroit as optional lumps in their EC127s.
ERF-NGC-European:
If we’re moving on to the US loose engines, Caterpillar comes to mind but I’m not sure they go as far back as the '60s in the UK. They were here in import White units in the '70s (280s with 9-sp Fullers) and Foden used them. Detroit is another more likely suspect and they were certainly around by the '70s. ERF later used Detroit as optional lumps in their EC127s.
You have only gone and done it Robert,mentioned Detroit!
pete smith:
ERF-NGC-European:
If we’re moving on to the US loose engines, Caterpillar comes to mind but I’m not sure they go as far back as the '60s in the UK. They were here in import White units in the '70s (280s with 9-sp Fullers) and Foden used them. Detroit is another more likely suspect and they were certainly around by the '70s. ERF later used Detroit as optional lumps in their EC127s.You have only gone and done it Robert,mentioned Detroit!
Just wait while the Warder sorry Nurse lets him out of his overnight straight jacket the thread will go awry with DD bollox !! 
cav551:
AEC supplied Atkinson with engines during WW2 and Dodge LAD tractor units had an AEC option. Early KM Bedfords used the Leyland 350/ 375 derivatives. Depending on what we consider relevant to the thread Iveco are one of the biggest loose engine suppliers historically, but limiting scope to road vehicles then Deutz engines were IIRC a Ford option in the 28 ton tractor unit. Counting auxilary engines then Mixer chassis used Deutz, Ford and BMC and Tipper trailers had Lister and Petter donkey engines.
Atkinson were still using AEC engines in the late 50’s and possibly into the very early 60’s. Nelsons of Arnside definitely ran one 8 wheeler possibly two with the bigger AEC engine 11:7 ■■? the one I recall had the prefix Reg letter of just “U”. Cheers Dennis.
When did Cat first come on the U.K. scene would it be foden approximately 83?
ERF also used the AEC 7.7 litre engine in its WW2 built lorries. There was a preserved ERF tractor unit with AEC engine on the rally circuit some years ago. Don’t know if it’s still around. The WW2 built Atkinson eight-wheeler that John Thomas had was AEC 7.7 powered.