Before I start, can it make it very clear that I fully support the use of loaded vehicles for training and test. In fact, I was running a fully loaded artic until a couple of years ago for post-test training.
But the DSA have, as per normal, done half a job with this. Not only are the weights insignificant (8 tonnes on an artic or drawbar combo) they have said that vehicles registered before 2007 are not required to carry the load until 2017. (this year for the rest of us). My educated guess is that the majority of training vehicles are pre 2007.
So those of us who have invested heavily in new trucks are now to be peanalised as we have the additional costs of being loaded. Seems a tad unfair to me.
But my question is this: will trainees see any value in training with a loaded vehicle and pay the extra to do this? I believe I know the answer but I’m interested in the debate.
Naturally I have protested to DSA in the strongest possible terms so there is a remote possibilty that things may change.
Pete 
Will this definitely be comong in soon or is it still a proposal ?
Subject to the normal vagueries of the DSA, it’s due in this September.
Pete
IMO, either EVERYONE should learn in a loaded vehicle (at least 75% of gross weight), or nobody should. Just my two pennorth…
I would make several changes if I was in charge - which sadly I’m not! Let’s remember that, in all this, most of the rules come from EU so let’s not shout too loudly at DSA though they are the ones charged with implementing the rules.
I would ban drawbars for CE licence training
I would have a minimum weight of 35 tonnes gross for CE
I would have minimum weight of 17 tonnes gross for C
I would scrub the automatic transmission suggestion
I would enforce the qualification of LGV instructors
But all this is irrelevant as the industry is run by EU bureaucrats in preference to people who actually know and understand the job.
Just derailed my own thread - - is that some sort of a record!!!
Pete
As a recent trainee, my priorities were;
1, Quality training/Reputation/Recommendation (IIRC, the only reason I didn’t come to you,is the next on the list)
2, Artic
3, Price
4, Reasonable vehicles
5, Location
6, Re-test fees
IF I hadn’t more or less walked straight into a job I may have considered extra training or artic familiarisation (if I’d passed in W&D) which could’ve involved driving a loaded vehicle, however passing the test was the goal.
I know the school I passed with won’t need to load up with IBC’s, and yes it’s unfair. In hindsight I would’ve benefited from a partially loaded vehicle and like you I feel that 8t is a tad low, 12-14t would be about right.
Maybe you could market yourself as being better for having the new trucks and therefore the loading, more realistic driving etc. I personally don’t think you’ll have a problem with new clients even if they have to pay a slight premium for your services.
As a recent trainee, my priorities were;
1, Quality training/Reputation/Recommendation (IIRC, the only reason I didn’t come to you,is the next on the list)
2, Artic
3, Price
4, Reasonable vehicles
5, Location
6, Re-test fees
IF I hadn’t more or less walked straight into a job I may have considered extra training or artic familiarisation (if I’d passed in W&D) which could’ve involved driving a loaded vehicle, however passing the test was the goal.
I know the school I passed with won’t need to load up with IBC’s, and yes it’s unfair. In hindsight I would’ve benefited from a partially loaded vehicle and like you I feel that 8t is a tad low, 12-14t would be about right.
Maybe you could market yourself as being better for having the new trucks and therefore the loading, more realistic driving etc. I personally don’t think you’ll have a problem with new clients even if they have to pay a slight premium for your services.
Fair comments. Thanks. Pete
I think tests should be done in vehicles that do have a load ie extra weight, there is a big difference in driving laden and unladen!
Peter Smythe:
I would make several changes if I was in charge - which sadly I’m not! Let’s remember that, in all this, most of the rules come from EU so let’s not shout too loudly at DSA though they are the ones charged with implementing the rules.
I would ban drawbars for CE licence training
I would have a minimum weight of 35 tonnes gross for CE
I would have minimum weight of 17 tonnes gross for C
I would scrub the automatic transmission suggestion
I would enforce the qualification of LGV instructors
But all this is irrelevant as the industry is run by EU bureaucrats in preference to people who actually know and understand the job.
Just derailed my own thread - - is that some sort of a record!!!
Pete
I would agree with the above 100%
The first truck I drove after my LGV C was a MAN 32t 8 wheel tipper. After being shown how to use the slap over box I got it from the yard to the site with no problem, not even from the early morning rush hour traffic.
When it was fully loaded with muck & I had to get it the 12mls to the tip . . . it was a totally different experience & no one had told/taught me what to expect.
Having just passed my test I can’t decide either way.
I think it would be advantageous to learn in a loaded vehicle, as that’s exactly what you’ll be doing in the really world and you’ll experience how the weight affects the vehicle.
But then surely this will increase the cost of learning, with extra fuel consumption and then maintenance such as tyres and brakes wearing quicker.
Learning LGV is expensive enough now…
I agree, I think it may be jaw-dropping the additional maintenance and wear and tear incurred which will of course, be a cost passed on the trainees. Ultimately, it won’t be out of the realms of possibility to see new training vehicles on full r+m as expensive parts on tired old training vehicles, like gearboxes, start failing more regularly. I suppose with an artic you could keep an empty and loaded trailer and swap to loaded a bit nearer the test to save a bit of cost.
Wonder which test centre exercise area will be the first to have some landing legs sink through it?
I probably wouldn’t pay extra to train in a loaded vehicle, sure it was a bit of a shock when I first drove a fully loaded 44 tonner and how it reacted but it was something I quickly got to grips with.
Only two differences between driving a loaded truck is that it’s slower on acceleration and takes longer to slow down.
It could be argued its harder to control a unladen truck as you have less traction…
In my opinion there is nothing wrong in the current requirements for the test. A big emphasis should be on the employer having a induction course at the start of employment.
I never had a problem driving a fully loaded 44 ton truck after passing my test in a unladen truck!
elmet training:
Only two differences between driving a loaded truck is that it’s slower on acceleration and takes longer to slow down.
It could be argued its harder to control a unladen truck as you have less traction…
In my opinion there is nothing wrong in the current requirements for the test. A big emphasis should be on the employer having a induction course at the start of employment.
I never had a problem driving a fully loaded 44 ton truck after passing my test in a unladen truck!
Go on then I’ll bite, The first time I drove a laden artic I nearly ended up practising off road driving, not only does it take longer to go &stop, taking bends is hell of a lot different, reversing is different, using gears is different, the handling is different depending on how it’s been loaded, sometimes it’s a bit tippy, other times it’ll have a fat arse sometimes at 44 tonnes it feels like it’s on rails other times it’ll feel like it’s 30’ high, 26 IBC’s full of water behave hell of a lot different to 26 IBC’s of ink, even differing makes of trailer handle differently. My first couple runs were a bit un-nerving till I started to get a grip on the relationship between the load & handling. My opinion is that training with at least a partially loaded vehicle somewhat eases the transition from trainee to professional driver.
Unless you are going use a identical truck to the one you passed your test everything is going to be different.
I only stated I didn’t have a problem. You learn the job once you’ve got your licence.
Everyone is entitled to a opinion and this is mine based on my own experiences.
I believe that you should have to drive with a loaded trailer on test. As has been said pulling away, stopping and reversing a loaded trailer is harder. I believe that it may cause problems for the newly qualified as they are unaware how far in advance they need to slow down for hazards.
