Load security & vosa

[lawrence_dunbar]

Are you really. Well please tell us what your job really is then perhapswe may be able to understand what you are about, Regards Larry

[carryfast]

Frankydobo:
What I’d like to know is who are the ones training up VOSA inspectors on load security, what are their credentials, qualifications and experience. I’m all for safer movement of loads but the guidelines have to come from a body that has the above from practical and hands on experience in the field and not just from sitting behind a desk and thinking up what they think is best. Franky.

Maybe in this case if it’s someone behind a desk who’s saying that he wants loads like those rails etc chained and strapped down instead of the driver who thinks that the drop sides will hold it all then maybe it’s somoene behind the desk who knows better in this case .

[gembo]

Carryfast:

Frankydobo:
What I’d like to know is who are the ones training up VOSA inspectors on load security, what are their credentials, qualifications and experience. I’m all for safer movement of loads but the guidelines have to come from a body that has the above from practical and hands on experience in the field and not just from sitting behind a desk and thinking up what they think is best. Franky.

Maybe in this case if it’s someone behind a desk who’s saying that he wants loads like those rails etc chained and strapped down instead of the driver who thinks that the drop sides will hold it all then maybe it’s somoene behind the desk who knows better in this case .

OK, if the sides are not a restraint then what are they for??
Believe me, that stuff locks itself together and dos’nt go anywhere! If i were to swerve, the truck would roll over before that ■■■■ moves!

[lawrence_dunbar]

Also getting back to these Vosa geasers, before long the way things are going the tw ts will end up in the bloody house of Lords, come on they are not drivers, & if in fact they had any driving Exp. on heavey goods motors they would know about safe loading, In my opinion they are all book men in a well paid cushy bloody job, with all the perks at the hard working hauliers paying for it, Im well out of the haulage game now been in it all my life, luckiley I came out of it with a bit of dosh & my pride of being part of it, Regards Larry.

[frankydobo]

I understand what you are saying about the establishment and the work carried out, it was the bit below that slightly worried me, no that the fact it was a she that was the trainer incase readers think I’m pointing to that, its the part after ‘so all Vosa officers…’ The worry is, will officers that already have powers some think are beyond their experience now become desk top experts if they see a load secured in a way that wasn’t covered on their training course and the only way loads will be secured is the VOSA way!

Whilst there the trainer told us that she had recently been working with VOSA and was devising a training plan so that all VOSA officers could be trained in load security with a view to better roadside enforcement.

[shep532]

Frankydobo:
I understand what you are saying about the establishment and the work carried out, it was the bit below that slightly worried me, no that the fact it was a she that was the trainer incase readers think I’m pointing to that, its the part after ‘so all Vosa officers…’ The worry is, will officers that already have powers some think are beyond their experience now become desk top experts if they see a load secured in a way that wasn’t covered on their training course and the only way loads will be secured is the VOSA way!

Whilst there the trainer told us that she had recently been working with VOSA and was devising a training plan so that all VOSA officers could be trained in load security with a view to better roadside enforcement.

As already said all loads are different. I think that is why they have this ‘matrix’. it clarifies some conditions that they can check and gives guidelines.

I don’t know that ALL VOSA officers will receive the training. Maybe they will have specialists.

I just thought some may be interested to see it and maybe see something that applies to them and put it right before they get a roadside prohibition - which foes on to affect the operators OCRS scores etc etc

[shep532]

Lawrence Dunbar:
Are you really. Well please tell us what your job really is then perhapswe may be able to understand what you are about, Regards Larry

I didn’t realise anyone needed to know “what I am about”. I passed on some information i thought was relevant. I didn’t make it up

[green456]

shep532:

green456:
makes me wonder if OP is trying to drum up business using scare tactics for courses he/they are running

I’ll have to read my posts again and see where I mentioned courses

I obviously made the whole thing up including the link that appears to go to the FTA’s own website

How is it scare tactics when all of it is fact?

I just happen to have a ‘thing’ about load security and I am generally appalled at what I often see out on the roads.

But yeah … I’ll come clean. I’m a DCPC trainer and don’t drive a wagon. What do i know?

read your first paragraph of your original post if you would like to see where you mentioned courses, you also state above you have a thing about load security, a vested interest i reckon judging by the terminology of your posts and the scare tacticts being used and the fact that that you refer to the training videos in your possesion, most people on courses do not get to keep the training videos but the company running them do, do you work for the FTA ? I ask this because you refer to them on numerous occasions and most drivers know that they are ##### or just another scammer trying to drum up business maybe

edited to include this recent post by blue peters dog cofirming he is a dcpc trainer who doesnt drive a wagon and knows SFA

by shep532 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:57 am

bloodoodle wrote:

Standards are most definitly being raised.

And a very good thing it is too.

Not the trainers problem to ensure the driver abides by the rules is it?

I can’t quite agree with that theory Pete, while it isn’t my problem I do see it as my remit to advise them correctly.

Pat

Either I didn’t write what I meant or you misunderstood me . I tell them it is working time. Whether they then do the right thing is not my concern. it isn’t my problem whether they abide by the rules.

if a driver tells me he’s not going to record the hours - I’m not gonna send him home am I?

I think the point is that neither you nor I actually know what the correct answer is. VOSA don’t seem to know. DSA/JAUPT don’t seem to know. WHichever side we fall on (working time or not working time) some drivers will smile and others will frown.

My own personal belief is:

Paid to attend = working time
MADE to attend (paid or not) = working time
Driver arranges the course himself in his own time = NOT working time

But right now - I’m going to tell them it IS working time and that they SHOULD record it as such and take whatever appropriate action with regard to rest periods etc.shep532

[pig_pen]

Frankydobo:
I understand what you are saying about the establishment and the work carried out, it was the bit below that slightly worried me, no that the fact it was a she that was the trainer incase readers think I’m pointing to that, its the part after ‘so all Vosa officers…’ The worry is, will officers that already have powers some think are beyond their experience now become desk top experts if they see a load secured in a way that wasn’t covered on their training course and the only way loads will be secured is the VOSA way!
Whilst there the trainer told us that she had recently been working with VOSA and was devising a training plan so that all VOSA officers could be trained in load security with a view to better roadside enforcement.

This is the part that bothers me, say load a machine down the deck a bit to keep axle weights right, chain it down, 4 chains, but fall foul of the training matrix because i`ve not used 1/2 pack of 4x4 timber to chock back off the head board, and made my head board higher so its above the centre of gravity of the load.

[lawrence_dunbar]

shep532:

Lawrence Dunbar:
Are you really. Well please tell us what your job really is then perhapswe may be able to understand what you are about, Regards Larry

Sorry Shep I thought I was replying to Carryfast(The nob] so do please forgive me for this terrible mistake, Regards Larry.PS Mind u ive had a few to-night , but Im still sorry for my error.

[conor]

Gembo:
OK, if the sides are not a restraint then what are they for??

Keeping in loose loads such as gravel. Whilst it does lock together those sides are just aluminium and the bolts holding the catches in place will rip through the ally in an instant.

To put it simply, if your wagon tips on its side and, depending on the load, the load spreads over the road then its not secured properly. Can you honestly say if your wagon popped on its side those rails wouldn’t go skidding across the road?

[carryfast]

Lawrence Dunbar:

shep532:

Lawrence Dunbar:
Are you really. Well please tell us what your job really is then perhapswe may be able to understand what you are about, Regards Larry

Sorry Shep I thought I was replying to Carryfast(The nob] so do please forgive me for this terrible mistake, Regards Larry.PS Mind u ive had a few to-night , but Im still sorry for my error.

What my job/s actually ‘was/were’ not ‘is’ being the relevant question in my case.Not a lot different to most others on here and I’d certainly learn’t enough before even getting an HGV licence,using a 7.5 tonner,to know that the drop sides on a dropside wagon will do absolutely zb all in actually holding a decent load on the back of a wagon.That’s what ropes,straps and chains etc are for.

But I’m not surprised that makes me a nob in the eyes of those who think that loads will stay put on the back with zb all holding them except their own weight and maybe the curtains of a curtain sider or the sides of a drop side truck.

[shep532]

green456:
read your first paragraph of your original post if you would like to see where you mentioned courses, you also state above you have a thing about load security, a vested interest i reckon judging by the terminology of your posts and the scare tacticts being used and the fact that that you refer to the training videos in your possesion, most people on courses do not get to keep the training videos but the company running them do, do you work for the FTA ? I ask this because you refer to them on numerous occasions and most drivers know that they are ##### or just another scammer trying to drum up business maybe

I mentioned a course I had been on that seemed to backup the information I had posted.

I went on the course as a responsible manager of 75 HGV drivers so that I could try to keep the company (inlcuding the drivers) on the right side of the law

I have training videos in my posession because I now run a training company. I have not at any time offered training during this thread. I have not mentioned my training business. I have not solicited any work from anyone.

I mentioned the FTA because I am a member of said organisation and that is where the original information came from. I believe it to be valid information. i do not work for the FTA. But if I did - what use would my post be in relation to that? Was I signing up members? did I mistakingly drop in a line with my phone number and a sunliminal message to “call now or be arrested by VOSA”?

Scare tactics? Where? I have stated some facts - all truth as far as I know. I have recalled some of my experiences - all truth as i recall. As a 48 year old bloke that started my working life with 12 years service in HM Forces followed by a good few years driving/loading/mechanicing/recoverying and then onto management I consider I have some experience worth passing on - as have plenty of others on here.

I have a thing about load security because I have been there and done that. I have administered first aid to a bloke who lost all his toes when a load shifted - not pleasent. I’m glad the ambulance was quick getting there. I have witnessed first hand a man slowly crushed to death by a chieftain tank that hadn’t been secured to a low loader properly. For the last 8+ years as a senior manager at a haulage company with over 70 drivers I have got quite fed up of dealing with claims for loads that have ‘gone over’ due to lack of load retention and drivers saying “it’s not my fault”.

Now “Roll up, roll up and buy a ticket to my FTA training sessions. Guaranteed VOSA will leave you alone”

[green456]

green456:

shep532:

green456:
makes me wonder if OP is trying to drum up business using scare tactics for courses he/they are running

I’ll have to read my posts again and see where I mentioned courses

I obviously made the whole thing up including the link that appears to go to the FTA’s own website

How is it scare tactics when all of it is fact?

I just happen to have a ‘thing’ about load security and I am generally appalled at what I often see out on the roads.

But yeah … I’ll come clean. I’m a DCPC trainer and don’t drive a wagon. What do i know?

read your first paragraph of your original post if you would like to see where you mentioned courses, you also state above you have a thing about load security, a vested interest i reckon judging by the terminology of your posts and the scare tacticts being used and the fact that that you refer to the training videos in your possesion, most people on courses do not get to keep the training videos but the company running them do, do you work for the FTA ? I ask this because you refer to them on numerous occasions and most drivers know that they are ##### or just another scammer trying to drum up business maybe

edited to include this recent post by blue peters dog cofirming he is a dcpc trainer who doesnt drive a wagon and knows SFA

by shep532 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:57 am

bloodoodle wrote:

Standards are most definitly being raised.

And a very good thing it is too.

Not the trainers problem to ensure the driver abides by the rules is it?

I can’t quite agree with that theory Pete, while it isn’t my problem I do see it as my remit to advise them correctly.

Pat

Either I didn’t write what I meant or you misunderstood me . I tell them it is working time. Whether they then do the right thing is not my concern. it isn’t my problem whether they abide by the rules.

if a driver tells me he’s not going to record the hours - I’m not gonna send him home am I?

I think the point is that neither you nor I actually know what the correct answer is. VOSA don’t seem to know. DSA/JAUPT don’t seem to know. WHichever side we fall on (working time or not working time) some drivers will smile and others will frown.

My own personal belief is:

Paid to attend = working time
MADE to attend (paid or not) = working time
Driver arranges the course himself in his own time = NOT working time

But right now - I’m going to tell them it IS working time and that they SHOULD record it as such and take whatever appropriate action with regard to rest periods etc.shep532

[8wheels]

I’ve nothing against this sort of thing in principle, but if the VOSA book is written in stone then I’m truly bolloxed. My headbord is about 2’ high, no sides and got a winch stuck in the middle of the headboard. There’s no way I’m going to park a 14t machine just behind the crane so it’ll sit in it’s usual position just forward of the rear bogie.

It’s chained down tight and that’s that. I’d not accept any advice to the contrary.

It’s not something they can use (hopefully) across the board all of the time, everytime.

[peter_wells]

Look you lot. Vosa are going for Tautliners not useing the intrnal straps ect. Abroad the police are even going for euro liners and tilts that dont use the wood side planks. so watch out.

Peter

[shep532]

green456:
edited to include this recent post by blue peters dog cofirming he is a dcpc trainer who doesnt drive a wagon and knows SFA

And your point is?
I’m sure if you trawl through all my posts you will find I mention numerous times I am currently a DCPC trainer. I also say I do not drive - which I don’t (but have). I also often mention that because I am a DCPC trainer it is usually considered I know SFA

At no point have I offered training services within this thread.

if you don’t like the information regarding VOSA and load security - then don’t worry about it. carry on doing whatever it is you do. it won’t change it …

[green456]

whilst you didnt post a direct link it was obvous to most people on here that you had a vested interest in trying to use scare tacticts in an effort to drum up business
just a little bit too much like ambulance chasers

[shep532]

green456:
whilst you didnt post a direct link it was obvous to most people on here that you had a vested interest in trying to use scare tacticts in an effort to drum up business
just a little bit too much like ambulance chasers

I suppose had I been a ‘driver’ and posted this all would be well and good.

How did any of this drum up business for me until YOU pointed it out?

Now did you want to book a course or not ?

[green456]

Nah, i think i will give it a miss thanks Shep, I heard some years ago,that people darn sarf were offered courses on protecting their livelihood by a business which employed scare tactics, and apparently once they signed up to the scheme run by a couple of twins they were discouraged from cancelling their membership by a bloke who wore a hat and went by the name of jack.
Think that business went ■■■■ up tho, so maybe theres an opening there for you yet