It has been suggested that the L12 engine fitted to the Leyland Buffalo was AEC based , I would be interest to have comments on this motor and engine , its performance , reliability , etc , many thanks in advance .
If I can direct you to the Leyland Marathon topic then you will find the information about the TL12 and L12 engines. Briefly, the L12 was a normally aspirated version of the turbo-charged TL12, which in itself was a direct development of the AEC AV760 engine. When Leyland had to withdraw its fixed head 500 series engines because of serious reliability problems then it had to find a mid-power range engine for the Buffalo, Bison, and Octopus models, so the L12 engine was offered as an option in those three models. The other option in the Buffalo and Octopus was the Leyland TL11, which was a hastily developed turbo-charged version of the Leyland O.680 engine. The L12 did what it was asked to do, being reliable, reasonably economical, giving acceptable service life, but probably not the liveliest of performers from a driver’s viewpoint in the Buffalo and Octopus. With it being a large lump of an engine L12 Bisons had a tare weight disadvantage compared with some competing 6 wheelers.
I wonder why Leyland didn`t offer a downrated TL12 instead of the L12
ramone:
I wonder why Leyland didn`t offer a downrated TL12 instead of the L12
They did…but only for the 25 Marathons (well 24 actually, one was written off a few days after it arrived) that went to Bolivia. They were rigids operating at a nominal gross weight of 19 tons. The TL12s were derated by 15%, so an output of 230bhp, but they needed the turbocharger to get air into the engine at operating heights of up to 15,600 ft in the Andes. It was a climb of quite a few hours to reach that altitude.
Can anyone offer a definitive guide (such as exhaust type & position, age/reg. year, cab detail etc) on what would determine wether a Buffalo/Octopus/Bison was fitted with the 500-series, L12 or TL11 engine please?
My old man drove an R-reg Buffalo, which I always assumed was 500-powered, but would be interested to learn.
GCR2ERF:
Can anyone offer a definitive guide (such as exhaust type & position, age/reg. year, cab detail etc) on what would determine wether a Buffalo/Octopus/Bison was fitted with the 500-series, L12 or TL11 engine please?My old man drove an R-reg Buffalo, which I always assumed was 500-powered, but would be interested to learn.
In March 1977 Leyland announced that it was phasing out production of 500 series engines, with a time line of “within 3 years”. in reality it was more like 12 months. The L12 became available as an option in the Buffalo in late 1976. The TL11 became available in 1978, there was a naturally aspirated version, the L11 planned, but I never came across one. The Spillers Milling Buffalos I was familiar with in the early 1980s were T and later registrations, with L12 or TL11 engines.
So to answer your question if your dad’s Buffalo was a 1976 R then it is highly likely that it had the 511 engine. If it was a later R reg then it could have been either 511 or L12 powered. The usual exhaust position for the 510 or 511 powered Buffalos was an upright stack mounted behind the cab on the offside. Ironically the 511 version engines were almost right and were the most reliable of the lot, but customer confidence had been lost by then.
GCR2ERF:
Can anyone offer a definitive guide (such as exhaust type & position, age/reg. year, cab detail etc) on what would determine wether a Buffalo/Octopus/Bison was fitted with the 500-series, L12 or TL11 engine please?My old man drove an R-reg Buffalo, which I always assumed was 500-powered, but would be interested to learn.
I drove a Buffalo reg: OYY947R for Southern BRS on the British Sugar tanker contract based at Bury St. Edmunds. It had the headless 500 engine. The most of the fleet had trouble with dropped valves although mine was trouble free for all the time I was there. The exhaust stack was up the back behind the driver; but that might have been because the engine ran a blower for pneumatic/powder discharge from the tank.
ChrisArbon:
GCR2ERF:
Can anyone offer a definitive guide (such as exhaust type & position, age/reg. year, cab detail etc) on what would determine wether a Buffalo/Octopus/Bison was fitted with the 500-series, L12 or TL11 engine please?My old man drove an R-reg Buffalo, which I always assumed was 500-powered, but would be interested to learn.
I drove a Buffalo reg: OYY947R for Southern BRS on the British Sugar tanker contract based at Bury St. Edmunds. It had the headless 500 engine. The most of the fleet had trouble with dropped valves although mine was trouble free for all the time I was there. The exhaust stack was up the back behind the driver; but that might have been because the engine ran a blower for pneumatic/powder discharge from the tank.
My Octopus PAY 127 R 500 x3 engines had exhaust up behind me, she was a brick lorry. Sounded sweet on the odd occasions she was on the road.
^^
Tarmac certainly ran at least one L12 Octopus which ended up with an OD at Hothfield plant in 1997. By then it was well past its best, I got to work on it only the once when the owner wanted a new oil pressure gauge fitted. I still have the old one and remember that this was a real pain to fit since it was a combined oil pressure and capillary tube temperature gauge, which meant threading the temperature coil all the way down from the binnacle, through the column housing, under the floor and round the engine through umpteem clips to its location in the cylnder head. After all that it merely proved that the engine didn’t have a lot of oil pressure, but since neither Tarmac nor I had a known accurate slave gauge there wasn’t much alternative. AFAIK it ran on for quite some time longer.
gingerfold:
GCR2ERF:
Can anyone offer a definitive guide (such as exhaust type & position, age/reg. year, cab detail etc) on what would determine wether a Buffalo/Octopus/Bison was fitted with the 500-series, L12 or TL11 engine please?My old man drove an R-reg Buffalo, which I always assumed was 500-powered, but would be interested to learn.
In March 1977 Leyland announced that it was phasing out production of 500 series engines, with a time line of “within 3 years”. in reality it was more like 12 months. The L12 became available as an option in the Buffalo in late 1976. The TL11 became available in 1978, there was a naturally aspirated version, the L11 planned, but I never came across one. The Spillers Milling Buffalos I was familiar with in the early 1980s were T and later registrations, with L12 or TL11 engines.
So to answer your question if your dad’s Buffalo was a 1976 R then it is highly likely that it had the 511 engine. If it was a later R reg then it could have been either 511 or L12 powered. The usual exhaust position for the 510 or 511 powered Buffalos was an upright stack mounted behind the cab on the offside. Ironically the 511 version engines were almost right and were the most reliable of the lot, but customer confidence had been lost by then.
Thanks for the reply - dad’s truck had the exhaust front-mounted under the bumper, but it was an ex-demo unit so may not have been built to the ‘standard’ spec. Other Buffaloes in the fleet had the vertical exhaust, but I can’t say it was all of them. His firm only ran one ‘Buffalo 2’ on a T-reg, which was when they went over to ERFs.
I do remember it had a very distinctive engine sound though!. I’ve had a look on the DVSA ‘check MOT’ site, but the engine cc’s are not listed…
I don’t recall now what the problems were, and they may not have been L12-related, but I well remember Pandoro’s batch of 20 L12-engined Buffaloes, on S-plates.
One of the exercises I undertook whilst working in the management accounts department was to implement a measurement of downtime - the Buffaloes held the VOR record by miles, peaking at 17 off the road on one single day. Their service life was woefully short: in a fleet where vehicles were kept for 5-7 years, they were replaced after only two years by a large batch of the newly-developed 32T version of the Seddon 300 Series.
In fact, Leyland provided 4 new Marathon 2 tractors, painted in P&O blue, for at least 6 months just to cover Buffalo downtime.
I don’t have the specs for the Buffalo but have scanned on the Octopus specs for the 502 511 & L12 engines and the Octopus 2 with the L12.
From memory we had two Bisons N reg which had the normal aspirated 500,6 speed box and the 4 spring rear bogie.
We than got a P reg Octopus with the 502 turbo,Fuller 9 speed and 2 spring rear bogie.
Next was an R reg Bison with the 502 turbo, 6 speed box and the new 2 spring rear suspension, this one also had the new “brown trim” cab.
The later Bisons up to V reg had the 502 turbo, Fuller 9 speed and two spring rear bogie. First Bison with the TL11 was W reg.
Apart from the two N reg all the 500 series we ran had the vertical stack which made then ideal muck shifters. More than once site foremen commented that the vertical stack created less dust on site.
Tynesde
240 Gardner:
I don’t recall now what the problems were, and they may not have been L12-related, but I well remember Pandoro’s batch of 20 L12-engined Buffaloes, on S-plates.One of the exercises I undertook whilst working in the management accounts department was to implement a measurement of downtime - the Buffaloes held the VOR record by miles, peaking at 17 off the road on one single day. Their service life was woefully short: in a fleet where vehicles were kept for 5-7 years, they were replaced after only two years by a large batch of the newly-developed 32T version of the Seddon 300 Series.
In fact, Leyland provided 4 new Marathon 2 tractors, painted in P&O blue, for at least 6 months just to cover Buffalo downtime.
Would the L12 have been built at the Leyland plant ?
ramone:
240 Gardner:
I don’t recall now what the problems were, and they may not have been L12-related, but I well remember Pandoro’s batch of 20 L12-engined Buffaloes, on S-plates.One of the exercises I undertook whilst working in the management accounts department was to implement a measurement of downtime - the Buffaloes held the VOR record by miles, peaking at 17 off the road on one single day. Their service life was woefully short: in a fleet where vehicles were kept for 5-7 years, they were replaced after only two years by a large batch of the newly-developed 32T version of the Seddon 300 Series.
In fact, Leyland provided 4 new Marathon 2 tractors, painted in P&O blue, for at least 6 months just to cover Buffalo downtime.
Would the L12 have been built at the Leyland plant ?
No they were built at Southall until it closed in 1979.
gingerfold:
GCR2ERF:
Can anyone offer a definitive guide (such as exhaust type & position, age/reg. year, cab detail etc) on what would determine wether a Buffalo/Octopus/Bison was fitted with the 500-series, L12 or TL11 engine please?My old man drove an R-reg Buffalo, which I always assumed was 500-powered, but would be interested to learn.
In March 1977 Leyland announced that it was phasing out production of 500 series engines, with a time line of “within 3 years”. in reality it was more like 12 months. The L12 became available as an option in the Buffalo in late 1976. The TL11 became available in 1978, there was a naturally aspirated version, the L11 planned, but I never came across one. The Spillers Milling Buffalos I was familiar with in the early 1980s were T and later registrations, with L12 or TL11 engines.
So to answer your question if your dad’s Buffalo was a 1976 R then it is highly likely that it had the 511 engine. If it was a later R reg then it could have been either 511 or L12 powered. The usual exhaust position for the 510 or 511 powered Buffalos was an upright stack mounted behind the cab on the offside. Ironically the 511 version engines were almost right and were the most reliable of the lot, but customer confidence had been lost by then.
my old man used to have a lynx on a w plate with a tl 11 in, great truck it pulled like a train up hill down dale but top speed about 55mph,i used to show a buffalo on a m plate with the 510 fixed head and to lynx skip lorries 1 with a 501 v plate, that was still in service in 2007 and w plate with a tl 11 in 510 and 501 exhaust behind the cab.
