Now I know this is an Oz-specc RHD drive truck (and always bear in mind that whatever is offered in RHD is not always available in LHD form - and vice versa - for technical reasons); but this one has a ■■■■■■■ N14 525 and an 18-speed Fuller. Underneath the pic, I have posted an Oz spec-sheet which shows that Detroit was also on offer. Robert
To return to those pictures of the LHD Dutch Western Star Commander; for ERF afficionados who want the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ drive-line in a reasonably modern, European-spec tractive unit with a high cab: this has got to be something of a ‘holy grail’! 
It’s rather a pity, then, that it’s got a Western Star badge on it! 
And why weren’t these marketted in Europe (in their ERF form) with 18-speed Fullers? 
Robert
False alarm, methinks! I’ve been researching this vehicle online and it appears just to be an ordinary Dutch imported ERF EC 14.52 with an added Western Star front grille… It started work in Holland in November 2007. It’s still a fine looking lorry with a big ■■■■■■■■ I wonder about the gearbox though - same as all the rest? Robert
robert1952:
To return to those pictures of the LHD Dutch Western Star Commander; for ERF afficionados who want the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ drive-line in a reasonably modern, European-spec tractive unit with a high cab: this has got to be something of a ‘holy grail’!And why weren’t these marketted in Europe (in their ERF form) with 18-speed Fullers?
0
As you know I’m always up for a good old industry politics discussion. 
I’d guess maybe along the lines of the Americans realising why should we keep on banging our heads against a brick wall by helping the Brits to build a decent wagon when the Brit domestic market is all over the place in too often not knowing a good thing when it sees it.Together with a hostile effectively protectionist Euro market and regulatory system that favoured the German/Scandinavian way IE in house arguably ultimately less capable components in terms of engines and gearboxes at least.In which case maybe by the time of the 18 speed Fuller’s wide spread use and the last of the line N14 ■■■■■■■ Euro type approval regulations were already at that point turning against both.Bearing in mind that at some point the two seemed to have been removed from EU type approval even if a buyer wanted them ?.
The fact is as usual it seems like there was a gradual,pre orchestrated,trading environment put up in Europe to take the Brits and their US helpers out even ‘if’ our own domestic market had been on side.At which point the Americans walked away and the rest is history in the ever widening diverging paths of the colonial markets v the old country which had irretrievably sold its soul out to the Euro project in 1973. 
Carryfast:
robert1952:
To return to those pictures of the LHD Dutch Western Star Commander; for ERF afficionados who want the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ drive-line in a reasonably modern, European-spec tractive unit with a high cab: this has got to be something of a ‘holy grail’!And why weren’t these marketted in Europe (in their ERF form) with 18-speed Fullers?
0
As you know I’m always up for a good old industry politics discussion.
I’d guess maybe along the lines of the Americans realising why should we keep on banging our heads against a brick wall by helping the Brits to build a decent wagon when the Brit domestic market is all over the place in too often not knowing a good thing when it sees it.Together with a hostile effectively protectionist Euro market and regulatory system that favoured the German/Scandinavian way IE in house arguably ultimately less capable components in terms of engines and gearboxes at least.In which case maybe by the time of the 18 speed Fuller’s wide spread use and the last of the line N14 ■■■■■■■ Euro type approval regulations were already at that point turning against both.Bearing in mind that at some point the two seemed to have been removed from EU type approval even if a buyer wanted them ?.
The fact is as usual it seems like there was a gradual,pre orchestrated,trading environment put up in Europe to take the Brits and their US helpers out even ‘if’ our own domestic market had been on side.At which point the Americans walked away and the rest is history in the ever widening diverging paths of the colonial markets v the old country which had irretrievably sold its soul out to the Euro project in 1973.
If you’re saying that European over-regulation drove ■■■■■■■ and Fuller away, then that would appear to be broadly true. The selling of souls, however, surely occurred much later than 1973, when the Europe that was originally signed up to, had morphed into something rather different, and bigger…
Anyway, if you read my post above yours (which crossed as you posted it), you’ll see that the Dutch lorry is all sham! 
Robert
robert1952:
Carryfast:
robert1952:
If you’re saying that European over-regulation drove ■■■■■■■ and Fuller away, then that would appear to be broadly true. The selling of souls, however, surely occurred much later than 1973, when the Europe that was originally signed up to, had morphed into something rather different, and bigger…Anyway, if you read my post above yours (which crossed as you posted it), you’ll see that the Dutch lorry is all sham!
Firstly I think the anti side of the 1975 EEC referendum campaign made it quite clear what we’d got into 2 years previously.
As for what actually makes up the Dutch wagon I’d imagine that ze Germans and our EU rulers wouldn’t have been too pleased to see a Dutch reg ERF with a 500 + ■■■■■■■ and an 18 speed Fuller in it storming around,on what the Swedes,German and Dutch manufacturers by that point regarded and had already carved up amongst themselves as, ‘their’ turf. 
As an edit to that would it be possible to actually find an actual date break point where such a spec would have no longer been EU type approved ?.I’d guess it might have even taken place well before the option of N14 and 18 speed fuller would have been widely in use in the colonies ?.
Carryfast:
As an edit to that would it be possible to actually find an actual date break point where such a spec would have no longer been EU type approved ?.I’d guess it might have even taken place well before the option of N14 and 18 speed fuller would have been widely in use in the colonies ?.
Well, the Eaton Twin-splitter failed the EU drive-by test somewhere around 1999 or 2000: I remember writing an obituary for the Eaton TS in Truck & Driver at the time. The Fuller 'boxes would have gone down with the TS. The M11 replaced the N14 before that, I think. So the four year period from 1996 to 1999 would be about right. R
robert1952:
Carryfast:
As an edit to that would it be possible to actually find an actual date break point where such a spec would have no longer been EU type approved ?.I’d guess it might have even taken place well before the option of N14 and 18 speed fuller would have been widely in use in the colonies ?.Well, the Eaton Twin-splitter failed the EU drive-by test somewhere around 1999 or 2000: I remember writing an obituary for the Eaton TS in Truck & Driver at the time. The Fuller 'boxes would have gone down with the TS. The M11 replaced the N14 before that, I think. So the four year period from 1996 to 1999 would be about right. R
Thanks for that information Robert.I think something similar happened in the case of Foden when it seems that the ■■■■■■■■■■■ and Fuller driveline was no longer available with the DAF cab but was in the colonies ?.
Which leaves the question why did the Road Ranger etc fail type approval but the I shift seems ok although it is just reputedly a constant mesh Road Ranger with automated shift. 
Something sounds a bit fishy in that regard which would be about right knowing the EU.
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Carryfast:
As an edit to that would it be possible to actually find an actual date break point where such a spec would have no longer been EU type approved ?.I’d guess it might have even taken place well before the option of N14 and 18 speed fuller would have been widely in use in the colonies ?.Well, the Eaton Twin-splitter failed the EU drive-by test somewhere around 1999 or 2000: I remember writing an obituary for the Eaton TS in Truck & Driver at the time. The Fuller 'boxes would have gone down with the TS. The M11 replaced the N14 before that, I think. So the four year period from 1996 to 1999 would be about right. R
Thanks for that information Robert.I think something similar happened in the case of Foden when it seems that the ■■■■■■■■■■■ and Fuller driveline was no longer available with the DAF cab but was in the colonies ?.
Which leaves the question why did the Road Ranger etc fail type approval but the I shift seems ok although it is just reputedly a constant mesh Road Ranger with automated shift.
With regard to your reference to the shared DAF CF / Foden Alpha 3000 cab, it is interesting that both those models started out offering the Eaton Twin-splitter as an option. I’ll bet not a lot of people remember that!
As for the constant-mesh I-shift and ZF Eurotronic: the EU objections were not about gear synchronisation, they were entirely to do with noise. It was the decibel drive-by test that the Eaton constant-mesh 'box failed, not a synchronisation or ‘easy-to-use’ test. Hope that clears that up. Cheers. Robert 
robert1952:
As for the constant-mesh I-shift and ZF Eurotronic: the EU objections were not about gear synchronisation, they were entirely to do with noise. It was the decibel drive-by test that they failed, not a synchronisation or ‘easy-to-use’ test. Hope that clears that up. Cheers. Robert
That’s the point I was referring to.Assuming nothing much has changed regarding the actual gear train in the I shift v Road Ranger then why would an I shift be expected to be any quieter in that regard than the RR ?.When the only thing that seems to have really changed in that regard would be the automated linking of clutch and shift actuation.
While I don’t actually remember any major noise issues with Fuller v Euro synchro alternatives either.In that they all sounded more or less the same in never being more than engine.Although any well worn box will obviously whine in the gears under load.
As for the twin splitter I’ve never driven one but whatever this is it doesn’t look like a synchro but if it is it is a good one and it doesn’t seem like it will break the sound meter driving by assuming it is a Fuller of whatever type RR or TS.
Carryfast:
robert1952:
As for the constant-mesh I-shift and ZF Eurotronic: the EU objections were not about gear synchronisation, they were entirely to do with noise. It was the decibel drive-by test that they failed, not a synchronisation or ‘easy-to-use’ test. Hope that clears that up. Cheers. RobertThat’s the point I was referring to.Assuming nothing much has changed regarding the actual gear train in the I shift v Road Ranger then why would an I shift be expected to be any quieter in that regard than the RR ?.When the only thing that seems to have really changed in that regard would be the automated linking of clutch and shift actuation.
While I don’t actually remember any major noise issues with Fuller v Euro synchro alternatives either.In that they all sounded more or less the same in never being more than engine.Although any well worn box will obviously whine in the gears under load.
As for the twin splitter I’ve never driven one but whatever this is it doesn’t look like a synchro but if it is it is a good one and it doesn’t seem like it will break the sound meter driving by assuming it is a Fuller of whatever type RR or TS.
Eaton and Fuller are the same outfit (they merged donkey’s years ago). The Twin-splitter was just a Fuller without a range-change switch and with three splitter at each corner of a standard H-pattern box - a completely brilliant gearbox, by the way.
CF, I agree with you that there is something fishy about it. If I were looking for a conspiracy theory, I’d say the changes were all about finding transmission that ‘talked’ to the engine, which is exactly what gearboxes now do. My own personal objection to this was that it left me, the driver, out of that equation. But I’ve crapped on about that subject on many threads, and you and me both must needs guard against repetition of our favourite themes! Robert
Robert1952
Thanks for the PM, will give your instructions ago in a few days time.
I have posted photo’s before so I feel as if I’m halfway there.
Cheers Bassman
Hi,
This is my first attempt at scanning an article onto Trucknet . It is not made any better by the fact that I have scanned a copy so I apologise for the quality.
However i hope that the pics. i have scanned will be of interest to some of you.
It is a Western Star sales brochure for a truck I persisted in calling an Aurora , but as you will see it’s proper title is The Auriga, Western Stars follow on of the ERF “EC” Series
Cheers Bassman
robert1952:
False alarm, methinks!
This originally ERF-tractor (8.290kgs!!!) had the first Dutch-registration in july 1999, as you all know, the registration goes/stays with the chassis.
Bassman:
Hi,
This is my first attempt at scanning an article onto Trucknet . It is not made any better by the fact that I have scanned a copy so I apologise for the quality.
However i hope that the pics. i have scanned will be of interest to some of you.
It is a Western Star sales brochure for a truck I persisted in calling an Aurora , but as you will see it’s proper title is The Auriga, Western Stars follow on of the ERF “EC” SeriesCheers Bassman
This an exciting find, Bassman - thanks for posting it . It’s shame the writing is too blurry to be read though! Robert 
robert1952:
This an exciting find, Bassman - thanks for posting it
If you click on the links, to open the picture file in another tab or window, then wait for it to download, you get a “+” sign on the cursor. Click the picture and it will go big. The text is readable then. If you want to make the whole picture fit on the screen, you can squash it to 1/4 (or whatever) the original size using Paint.
[zb]
anorak:robert1952:
This an exciting find, Bassman - thanks for posting itIf you click on the links, to open the picture file in another tab or window, then wait for it to download, you get a “+” sign on the cursor. Click the picture and it will go big. The text is readable then. If you want to make the whole picture fit on the screen, you can squash it to 1/4 (or whatever) the original size using Paint.
0
Just zoom in to make the text readable again, either with your browser or a picture viewer.
Brilliant! Thanks Anorak. Robert
I post it over here as EC is also European Common…as far as Turkey might be regarded as European,
I found that Turkey had a distributor named Motorlu in Istanbul since mid-fifties. Around 1963-1964 that
list was expanded with Cyprus, Portugal and Jamaica.
To be continued…
