Are the new test standards for 8 forward ratios causing a drop in LGV test pass rates? Having never driven such a vehicle, I cannot really comment on how hard they are to drive.
Do the like of range change, slapover and splitter gearboxes take some getting used to? Or can a novice get the hang of them quite quickly?
Do the like of range change, slapover and splitter gearboxes take some getting used to? Or can a novice get the hang of them quite quickly?
Depends on the novice and also the box.
Theoretically they’re all (most) straightforward, a 4 over 4 range changer is like the one in a car then a switch and back where you started in the upper range.
Slapover boxes are a similar sort of concept, again simple in theory.
Give one to someone who has only driven a truck with a straight 6 speed gearbox and they’re probably going to get it pretty quick. Give one to someone who has driven nothing bigger than a transit and it’s one more thing that thy are going to try and remember and possibly get in a flap about.
No definative answers here I suppose. But sometimes I still find myself about to select an inappropriate gear due to the range or splitter switch being not where it needs to be.
I’d never driven anything bigger than my Sprinter when i did the class c training, I didn’t have a problem with the 4^4 at all… wasn’t too happy with the clutch in the scania though, but between failing my first test, and doing refresher/extra lessons the instructor had it changed…
SuperLez:
Are the new test standards for 8 forward ratios causing a drop in LGV test pass rates? Having never driven such a vehicle, I cannot really comment on how hard they are to drive.Do the like of range change, slapover and splitter gearboxes take some getting used to? Or can a novice get the hang of them quite quickly?
Don’t let anyone wind you up about it!
A range change is a case of going through the main gearbox twice,once in low range,then into high range,which can be switch,slap over,or collar type.
The switch or collar type is USUALLY down for low box and up for high box.
Starting off in the low box,which gear depends on whether you are loaded or not,(experience will tell you).Change as normal up to 4th gear,lift the switch or collar into high just before the next change,(the change will not take place until you go through neutral),then change from 4th low UP to first high and continue to 4th high.Changing down is exactly the reverse operation.
On the slap over type,when you “slap over” the gear lever to the left,the lever will then rest in the 3rd and 4th position.therefore you will need to push the lever over against the spring to get 1st and second as you would do on most cars.When you have changed up to 4th,to get into 5th,go to change up as you would normally,push the lever into neutral,then “slap” it over towards you,let it centre,then straight forward again and you are in 5th gear. Straight back for 6th,then forward into neutral then towards you against the spring and forward into 7th.Straight back into 8th.Changing down is the reverse sequence.
On the “Slapover"type,reverse is usually on the “Low” side,so slapping over to reverse it’s automatically in low so it’s not possible to be in"High reverse”,whereas some swith or collar type,unless they have an interlock,it may be possible to engage reverse when in high range.
On the “Splitter” type’box,However many gears are in the main 'box,you only have to go through once,but every gear is “split” or halved as you change.
The "Splitter"switch is also normally down for “Low” and up for “High”.
You would start off in whichever gear is required,depending on load and conditions,usually in “Low split”.If you wish to “Split up”,move the selector switch to “High”.Nothing will happen until you disengage the clutch.simply use the clutch to change up to “High split” .To do a “Split change”,if you are in for example 3rd gear "High"and you wish to go up to 4th “Low”,depress your switch into the “Low” position,then change up to the next gear,the “Splitter” will change down to “Low” as you go through neutral,because in effect you are only going up half a gear,it can be a quicker change.You may not need to split every gear,if you are empty or the going is easy,you may only need to use the “Splitter” on the top few gears.
Again,unless there is an inhibitor,it is possible to engage “High” reverse.
A “Range change” plus “Splitter” gearbox is a combination of the two and can take a little more time to get used to.
But hey,you will only be learning on one type at a time.It is not possible to teach someone to drive or overcome the percieved complexities of a modern transmission on a thread like this.
Half an hour on a straight piece of road should be enough to master the basics of the average modern gearbox.
Give one to someone who has driven nothing bigger than a transit and it’s one more thing that thy are going to try and remember and possibly get in a flap about.
I did my test in a Merc with a splitter after having never driven anything bigger than a Toyota Avensis. It was confusing at first and then it became one of the fun things about driving a truck.
But naturally I’ve never driven one since 
The main problem with these gearboxes is NERVES - especially with males as the nerves make the arm muscles tighten and they end up forcing the gearstick through the reverse gate and trying to get crawler or reverse instead of 5th etc. This is shown by the number of minors in the gears section of the examiners sheet and if it gets to 4 then a serious is marked and is therefore a fail.
Another nerves prob is to move the range switch when changing to other gears in the same range and they are therefore now trying to get an innapropriate gear in the wrong range.
Think through each gear change, dont rush it and dont get nerves - job done!
Hi i had my lessons/test recently for class2 and had also never driven anything bigger than a van, the truck had 16gears (8spd slapover with splitter), this was a bit scary at first but after a couple of days became familiar, the main thing is to just take your time and it will make sense in due course, dont worry about the gears too much as you can already drive with gears you just need to learn a new gearbox layout, also the 8 spd box you rarely use 1st and 2nd (only gearchange ex for me) so is really a 6 spd for normal driving.
good luck with your training
Just dont panic! 4 over 4 is a really simple gearbox to use and most people get the hang of pretty quickly.
Just make sure you dont rush things and giver yourself time to think and there is no problem.
I dont think it has made any difference to the pass rate and why should it?
Straight six gearboxes can be more difficult in a way because you have to make sure you dont miss the middle slsots for 3 and four. Very easy to knock them over into either the lower or higher gears. Dont have this problem with 4 over 4.
Without doubt introducing the upgraded vehicle requirements for driving tests has made it harder to pass the test.
Our company held on to two rusty old trucks for a few years when we really wished we could have used the newer (range change) trucks often sat in the yard doing nothing but these old ones had ‘car like’ gearboxes and thus easier to drive for novices and had a better pass rate with hard to teach drivers!
Of course some individuals can handle a range change with only a few wise words and never make it look hard work. However most other people can take 2 or 3 days to get used to it, this all costs money and we now do far less 4 day courses than we used to. So Our pass rate hasn’t changed much but its more expensive now.
Common mistakes/failures include:
Forgetting to select low range when setting off and thus trying to move away in either 7th or 8th and possibly holding up traffic. Whenever you stop choose low range when you move the lever to neutral.
Completely getting in a muddle at seemingly random times, forgetting where any gears are and what gear is required. Usually because something has leaped out the tarmac and put off the poor novice. Hopefully before the test new drivers get out of this annoying habit but the stress of the test can let it rear its ugly head again!
The gear change exercise is harder with an 8 speed, drivers may choose the wrong gear coming down the box - like 3rd instead of 1st or resume normal driving in high range by mistake. The straight 6 was easier but you could still get the wrong gear and 1st was possibly harder to find because the ratio difference between 2nd 1st was larger. On an 8 speed the difference between gears is less which makes having the correct road speed and engine rpm less of an issue (gears go in easier).
Trying to use all the gears to slow down is not seen as the modern technique, failing to come down the gears 8-6-5-4 or similar may cause test minors or a serious. Gears are for going and brakes (not gears) are for slowing! Not my opinion - the DSA’s.
Don’t bother trying to change to 5th gear on a small roundabout unless your very good, you will find yourself trying to steer with one hand on the wheel.
Setting off in high range on the hill start up or down exercise is another favourite.
I dare say I could go on.
Myself, when I learnt I just got told its a 4 over 4 gearbox here is the switch, off you go fella! I soon learnt.
Oh, and I’m not a fan of the slap over gearbox found on Renault and recycled U-Boats (mercs), they are simple but why should you do 3 lever movements instead of 2. Check out what your driving school can offer.
Example - changing from high 5 to low 4th:
Slap over -
Range Change -
but these old ones had ‘car like’ gearboxes and thus easier to drive for novices and had a better pass rate with hard to teach drivers!
I can see your point on this one Tockwith but… Do we want to take out ‘car’ drivers and teach them to pass the LGV test or do we want to take out potential truckers and teach them to be truckers?
In my opinion it is a cop out to teah tomeone on a really easy truck - in other words a big car - and then tell them they are now truckers because they can scrape through a one hour drive in an easy to handle vehicle.
Whast happens to this driver when he gets thrown in at the deep end with a ‘proper’ vehicle with a full load and expected to do a days work?
I have always believed that trainng a driver to pass a test is totally different than training a driver to be a trucker.
For example, even before dropping the trailer was compulsory on test I always had my guys spending a few hours dropping and hitching trailers and have been thanked for that many times.
It gave them confidence and stopped them looking silly first time they had to do it for real.
IIf there are less passes in the new legislation trucks or there is more training needed to get the pases then it simply shows that the standards previously wee not high enough to be acceptable.
Trucking is a responsiblse job and the driver needs to be one of the best to be safe and competent out there.
Thanks for the advice!
Would make things a lot easier if they used these gearboxes in vans - plenty of practice - and getting paid for it!
One other thing - when did the uncoupling come into the test?
Is everyone supposed to do it?
Have seen a few threads here where some folks didn’t get this on their tests.
SuperLez:
Thanks for the advice!Would make things a lot easier if they used these gearboxes in vans - plenty of practice - and getting paid for it!
One other thing - when did the uncoupling come into the test?
Is everyone supposed to do it?
Have seen a few threads here where some folks didn’t get this on their tests.
You will not do it on the C or C1 test 
- SORRY, could not resist that
I cannot say exactly when it was introduced but it was some years ago and is applicable on every +E test no matter which licence catagory.
I think it was 97 when you had to do the coupling/uncoupling on test but not 100% sure.
Memory failure
Although even before that I used to make my trainees ‘drop em’ on training because although they only had to run through the procedure theoretically on test I always believed a good practical training session made them more knowledgable and obviously helped them grasp it better.
It also made them more confident when they passed and took on their first job. Theory is no replacement for doing it for real.
Disabled people cannot be discriminated against - does that mean that they cannot tow a trailer if they are unable to physically uncouple it on test 
I trained and passed my test in an old Volvo 6 speed 4 years ago.
My first agency shift was in an 8 speed Scania. (I can’t recall getting any advice on these during training). It was a pitch black January morning as I tried to get the fully loaded curtain sider out the yard, I was in 5th I later found out when I stopped just outside the yard gates and puzzled over this strange switch on the gear lever. ‘Whats this for?’ I thought, then the light switch in the grey matter flicked on, switch operated, low range selected and off I rolled to Dundee from Glasgow. This is cool I thought, thinking I’d been so clever working it out for myself. Then I started the multi drop in Dundee. The learning curve went vertical as I struggled to get round roundabouts in 7th instead of 3rd or 4th! But as the man said, after a few hours it got easier, although I’m convinced the gear lever vibration was bouncing the rocker switch against my knee and selecting high when I though was set up in low 
Thats my excuse 
wat about the zf and eaton gearbox if ur going on a young driver scheme like me and using the most awkward gearboxes
I drove an old Seddon Atkinson 400 with a Roadranger 9 speed box-4 over 5,round the corner shifts,try explaining one of those to some one whose only driven a F7 before.
Simon
lol well i cud ask ma dad lol he drove 2 n both of em i hated n they was both run by prestons of potto both of em wen i went in one sumthin went rong n i was even considerin buin one wen i old enough lol
n the seddon atkinsons was really old dunno wat reg though in 1980’s lol
Rog wrote:-
Disabled people cannot be discriminated against - does that mean that they cannot tow a trailer if they are unable to physically uncouple it on test
Interesting one that Rog. About 4 years ago I had a young lady who try as she may, couldn’t put the 5th wheel release. I thought about using a ratchet strap and asked an examiner who said that was not acceptable.
However after a weekend of weight training she managed to do it - probably the best driver i’ve trained, I have to say.
Please note Mothertrucker i’m not being sexist in the fact that she was a woman, it was just a fact - BTW there doesn’t seem to be any fathertrucker on the forum - I guess if there was he would be accused of being sexist!
The original question regarding pass rates:-
The 8 forward gears has certainly lowered the pass rate. On the plus side of course the change has made it easier for C+E as trainees already have the range change skill.