I can’t find any shots of late 50’s early 60’s normal control BMC chassis that were badged either Austin or Morris. When I were a Lad I used to help a Chap that had bought a new SWB tipper but he was Old School and it had a petrol engine. This was about 1958/9 and it had a little brass plate on the dash saying it had been supplied by Z. Crabtree, Motor Engineers of Kendal. IIRC it had the yellow Morris badge on the bonnet. Cheers Bewick.
Star down under.:
1959 B.M.C. Austin lorry | London to Brighton Historic Comme… | Flickr
Thanks “SdU” but it isn’t the forward control chassis I am looking for. Cheers Bewick.
I worked on dozens of them in the sixties Dennis, designated as the WEK they made them from three to five tons. Small ones had the 3.4 BMC diesel or 4 litre petrol, the larger ones had the 5.1 diesel. They all had the four speed constant mesh box. Union Cartage had a few five tonners locally. They were a Austin/Morris design following the formation of BMC to update the Austin Loadstar range and replace the Morris-Commercial NV range, the cab was similar to the Loadstar.
I remember one of our ‘traveller friends’ having a ‘new’ Gold seal petrol engine fitted in one and he and his family insisted of watching every move the mechanic did, when the time came to start it he wouldn’t let the mechanic do it so he turned the key and as soon as it fired floored the throttle! 
The engine started rattling because the oil hadn’t had time to circulate: “the big ends are gone, I’m not paying for it”. 
Our foreman, Roy, said that he couldn’t take the vehicle then, he replied “So you think that your’e the big man then?” and Roy said “I’m big enough to stop you taking that vehicle”! He paid up cash, loaded wife and kids up and we never saw him again!
The later WF models were similar cab wise but had twin headlamps, and a five speed box and two speed axle were options, many were exported.
NMP
Pete.
Star down under.:
bmc trucks 1960s - Google Search
Spot on SdU !! found some shots thanks . Cheers Dennis.
windrush:
I worked on dozens of them in the sixties Dennis, designated as the WEK they made them from three to five tons. Small ones had the 3.4 BMC diesel or 4 litre petrol, the larger ones had the 5.1 diesel. They all had the four speed constant mesh box. Union Cartage had a few five tonners locally. They were a Austin/Morris design following the formation of BMC to update the Austin Loadstar range and replace the Morris-Commercial NV range, the cab was similar to the Loadstar.I remember one of our ‘traveller friends’ having a ‘new’ Gold seal petrol engine fitted in one and he and his family insisted of watching every move the mechanic did, when the time came to start it he wouldn’t let the mechanic do it so he turned the key and as soon as it fired floored the throttle!
The later WF models were similar cab wise but had twin headlamps, and a five speed box and two speed axle were options, many were exported.
0 NMP
Pete.
Thanks Pete ! So would the petrol engine have been the one used in the Princesses and Westminster cars ? and typical antics of “The Diesel fairies” I would never let them darken our gates into the yard ! If they did on occasion I was out the office and in no uncertain terms they were told to “Get the ■■■■ out NOW” or the dog’s out !! and a dog, no matter how docile is an excellent judge of character ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Thanks Pete ! So would the petrol engine have been the one used in the Princesses and Westminster cars ? and typical antics of “The Diesel fairies” I would never let them darken our gates into the yard ! If they did on occasion I was out the office and in no uncertain terms they were told to “Get the [zb] out NOW” or the dog’s out !! and a dog, no matter how docile is an excellent judge of character ! Cheers Dennis.
It was used in the large Vanden Plas Sheerlines Dennis, the Westminster etc used a smaller 3 litre engine. It powered all the BMC range at that time, from the three tonners right up to the tractor units (‘Prime Movers’ in BMC language!) it was an option but was rarely used in anything larger than the three ton range. The same engine was used in a combine harvester, possibly a Massey? I can remember a loaded five ton FE truck, the forward control version with the Willenhall cab with the petrol engine, breaking down on the old A4 in Reading and we dragged it in. It had come from Colchester I think and the clutch had gone, but the driver insisted that we locked it in the workshop overnight. The load was sheeted over and looked like black steel bars but he said they were Platinum disguised as steel! The driver reckoned his company thought that a rather battered and unsignwritten elderly flatbed wouldn’t attract thieves, hopefully he was right!
Regarding the ‘traveller’: back in the sixties they were less trouble that the pond life that we call travellers nowadays. You still wouldn’t trust them, but most seemed to be ready to pay their way and we had a few we dealt with regularly and had no real issues.
There was also a huge black guy, Arthur, built like a brick ■■■■■■■■■ with not an ounce of fat on him, who ran a petrol engined FGK five tonner on scrap metal and he was a grand chap. He filled the cab of the FG! He was dismantling the old cast iron lamp posts around town and could carry one on his shoulder! He used to wait at the bottom of the yard and when he spotted an apprentice fitter would call him over to replace a bulb or something similar: “Don’t let the boss man know” he used to say and we would fit him a bulb and he would give us a couple of quid. As apprentices we were only on a fiver a week anyway, if the garage replaced the bulb for him they would only have charged a few shillings but we never told him that! 
He lived down a side street off of the Oxford Road and he came home one day to find his Irish neighbour had parked in his space. The brave (or stupid!) Irishman refused to move so Arthur grabbed the rear bumper of the chaps Austin Cambidge, lifted it up and wheeled it like a barrow to the dead end of the street and dropped the front end into a ditch! He had no problems with him after that!
Pete.
You are most definitely a “fountain” of interesting, and useful, information Pete ! First of all the technical bit ( I believe that Bedfords also utilised their big Petrol engines in both Vauxhall and Bedford models ) I was struggling to find any info on this BMC Chassis and becoming “■■■■■■ off” by the day !! But if you ask nicely some kindly TNUK member will usually put you out of your misery and anxiety !! In this case it was “Star down Under” and Your Goodself ! So stay safe Mate and keep well ! Regards Dennis.
Earlier model than requested the Austin Loadstar in CM
archive.commercialmotor.com/page … er-1949/41
And some WE And WF pictures
Bewick:
You are most definitely a “fountain” of interesting, and useful, information Pete ! First of all the technical bit ( I believe that Bedfords also utilised their big Petrol engines in both Vauxhall and Bedford models ) I was struggling to find any info on this BMC Chassis and becoming “■■■■■■ off” by the day !! But if you ask nicely some kindly TNUK member will usually put you out of your misery and anxiety !! In this case it was “Star down Under” and Your Goodself ! So stay safe Mate and keep well ! Regards Dennis.
Heres you go Dennis. 
Pete, you must have worked on a fair few of them to have remembered all the details you mentioned,engines etc. 
Click on pages twice to read.
We had plenty of WF 6 cylinder diesels on the council it was one of my favourite trucks.Much better than the Bedford TJ or worse TK.
Short wheelbase Austin loadstar tipper from the 50s Dennis maybe not the model you are looking for though
Stanfield:
Short wheelbase Austin loadstar tipper from the 50s Dennis maybe not the model you are looking for though
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I think that one is a Loadstar John an earlier model. But thanks all the same it is a fine shot from the day and I wonder how long it was kept in that condition ■■ Cheers Dennis.
DEANB:
Bewick:
You are most definitely a “fountain” of interesting, and useful, information Pete ! First of all the technical bit ( I believe that Bedfords also utilised their big Petrol engines in both Vauxhall and Bedford models ) I was struggling to find any info on this BMC Chassis and becoming “■■■■■■ off” by the day !! But if you ask nicely some kindly TNUK member will usually put you out of your misery and anxiety !! In this case it was “Star down Under” and Your Goodself ! So stay safe Mate and keep well ! Regards Dennis.Heres you go Dennis.
Pete, you must have worked on a fair few of them to have remembered all the details you mentioned,engines etc.
Click on pages twice to read.
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Many thanks Dean and the Lads----it’s a bit like waiting for a bus that dosen’t turn up then “hey presto” they all turn up at once !!! The BMC I rode on was badged Morris ( yellow Badge) but that would have been the one and only difference. Cheers Dennis. 
Zenas Crabtree & Son Motor Engineer Kendal
Bernard Crabtree was born in 1908, the elder son of Zenas and Edith, of Osborne Terrace, Kendal. Zenas was a pattern maker from Hebden Bridge and came to Kendal in the early 1900s and helped build the first motor car in Kendal.
Bernard grew up in early Kendal and remembers the many mills along the river and occasionally hitching a ride by ‘jumping on the back of a passing horse-drawn cart’. He tells of his father’s valuable work during the war years - when the ‘Kendal Munitions Group’ was formed by a group of local businessmen.He recalls the 1920s and the purchase of a group of old houses in Kirkland, that were demolished to build the ‘Z Crabtree Garage’. He recollects the many different vehicles that passed through their door and describes incidents and call-outs that formed ‘part and parcel’ of garage life. He recounts the joy and camaraderie of the Westmorland Motor Club. Bernard retired in the late 1970s after over fifty years in the motor trade. This book is filled with stories and photographs, many previously unseen. A truly delightful insight into the development of the early car and motorcycle business in Kendal!
Bewick:
Many thanks Dean and the Lads----it’s a bit like waiting for a bus that dosen’t turn up then “hey presto” they all turn up at once !!!
The only physical difference was the front grill Dennis, Morris used seperate horizontal bars and Austin had just two bars with a vertical slotted grille behind them as in the pics. It’s a wonder that Carryfast hasn’t been on as he drove the later WF versions for the council! The petrol engine was an Austin design, when BMC was formed Austin engines were chosen for most of the vehicles, both cars and commercials. Morris tended to favour sidevalve engines in their ranges, apart from one or two exceptions, but they were rather outdated by the mid fifties. The 3.4 BMC diesel was loosley based on the Saurer diesels that were used in the normal control NVO and forward control FVO (the ones with the ‘suicide’ cab doors, the ‘O’ denoted an oil engine was fitted) ranges. Despite not having worked on the larger BMC diesels since 1974 I can still remember the main torque settings for the head, main bearings, big ends and the flywheel bolts, a sad ■■■■■■■ aren’t I and I really should get out more? Strangely I have a genuine Morris-Commercial workshop manual for the Saurer diesel engine on my bookshelf, yet I have never worked on one and am unlikely to ever see another? 
Pete.
windrush:
Bewick:
Many thanks Dean and the Lads----it’s a bit like waiting for a bus that dosen’t turn up then “hey presto” they all turn up at once !!!The only physical difference was the front grill Dennis, Morris used seperate horizontal bars and Austin had just two bars with a vertical slotted grille behind them as in the pics. It’s a wonder that Carryfast hasn’t been on as he drove the later WF versions for the council!
Pete.
Many thanks for the comprehensive explanation Pete ! Not that I was a fan of BMC’s you understand ! and it is a surprise that The Leatherhead Fountain of All Knowledge" hasn’t joined in on the attack but he may just be still jenning up off the internet then stand by as he will make your explanation look pathetic Mate !!! Regards Dennis.
Wheel Nut:
Zenas Crabtree & Son Motor Engineer KendalBernard Crabtree was born in 1908, the elder son of Zenas and Edith, of Osborne Terrace, Kendal. Zenas was a pattern maker from Hebden Bridge and came to Kendal in the early 1900s and helped build the first motor car in Kendal.
Bernard grew up in early Kendal and remembers the many mills along the river and occasionally hitching a ride by ‘jumping on the back of a passing horse-drawn cart’. He tells of his father’s valuable work during the war years - when the ‘Kendal Munitions Group’ was formed by a group of local businessmen.He recalls the 1920s and the purchase of a group of old houses in Kirkland, that were demolished to build the ‘Z Crabtree Garage’. He recollects the many different vehicles that passed through their door and describes incidents and call-outs that formed ‘part and parcel’ of garage life. He recounts the joy and camaraderie of the Westmorland Motor Club. Bernard retired in the late 1970s after over fifty years in the motor trade. This book is filled with stories and photographs, many previously unseen. A truly delightful insight into the development of the early car and motorcycle business in Kendal!
The book ( a great read) was called “An Old Westmorland Garage” and I have a copy on my bookshelves. Crabtrees Garage was a fairly biggish operation over the years they were Rootes Dealers in later years and there was two Brothers Brian who wrote the book and the older Brother was called Bernard. There was a Peter Crabtree who was the Son of one of the Brothers ( not sure which) who had is own Garage over the bridge on Lound Rd. ( A65) which was called The Victrix Motor Works. Peter became Mayor of Kendal for a couple of years but eventually moved away down to London area. The Crabtree business was ran down during the 70’s until they packed up and retired in around '78/9. I recall them selling ICI petrol for a number of years which was the cheapest in town but it had a funny kind of smell IIRC ! As they had a large workshop area they used to park up a couple of DC Thompsons from Dundee undercover every night so the Magazines never got wet through the sheets and the only bloke I knew from Crabby’s ( as they were called) was their Salesman who was called Jossy Smith ( I know I know but no relation honest !) And his “Mantra” was “My fault is I am too ■■■■■■■ honest” and this from a Car salesman who would sell his Granny a dead cat he really would !! He lived up the A6 at Selside north of Kendal. A Renault Dealer bought the Garage from Crabbys and carried on for a few more years selling cars then they packed up and all the whole site both the old Crabtrees site and the one next to it ( Loxhams Garages) were built on by McCarthy & Stone and the local Council built flats as well. History lesson over phew ! Cheers Dennis.
windrush:
I worked on dozens of them in the sixties Dennis, designated as the WEK they made them from three to five tons. Small ones had the 3.4 BMC diesel or 4 litre petrol, the larger ones had the 5.1 diesel. They all had the four speed constant mesh box. Union Cartage had a few five tonners locally. They were a Austin/Morris design following the formation of BMC to update the Austin Loadstar range and replace the Morris-Commercial NV range, the cab was similar to the Loadstar.I remember one of our ‘traveller friends’ having a ‘new’ Gold seal petrol engine fitted in one and he and his family insisted of watching every move the mechanic did, when the time came to start it he wouldn’t let the mechanic do it so he turned the key and as soon as it fired floored the throttle!
The later WF models were similar cab wise but had twin headlamps, and a five speed box and two speed axle were options, many were exported.
1 NMP
0 NMP
Pete.
Your mention of him making the big ends rattle reminded me of my 1967 MGBGT. The big ends always rattled for a second or so while the oil worked its way around (no, I didn’t rev it) it was a great machine. Totally reliable and would sit at 90 all day on the M6. Wish I had it now!