switchlogic:
Carryfast:
That wasn’t exactly the only or main issue how Collins etc ( rightly ) saw it and then De Valera wanted to carry on with.Freight Dog has got it more or less right.Ah yes Eamon DeValera and Michael Collins, two well known Englishmen by your standards
If you’d have said Ian Paisley I’d have agreed with you.
Carryfast:
irish lorries:
Carryfast:
irish lorries:
Freight Dog:
It’s by proxy. It’s about nationalism and unionism, tribalism. The fight isn’t actually over religion. It just happens the vast majority of nationalists were born into a catholic background and the vast number of unionists born into a prod. It becomes an associated way of labelling the other side. One side may have had a passion for wearing red shirts, the other blue.All the actual arguments and violence over the last 45 years aren’t over the different faiths in NI. They are about bunch A wanting to fully join one country and bunch B want to remain out of that country and remain in union with another country.
Actually it started over the Catholics trying to get the same rights as protestants
That wasn’t exactly the only or main issue how Collins etc ( rightly ) saw it and then De Valera wanted to carry on with.Freight Dog has got it more or less right.
I thought we were on about the troubles
If the troubles since then were all just about religious equality in the north there obviously wouldn’t be any ongoing issues concerning the nationalist v unionist cause there.As freight dog said it’s first and foremost an issue of nationalist v unionist with the one of religious differences just being a by product and side issue to that.
It was a bit about religion but mostly about nationalist and unionist
irish lorries:
Carryfast:
irish lorries:
Carryfast:
irish lorries:
Freight Dog:
It’s by proxy. It’s about nationalism and unionism, tribalism. The fight isn’t actually over religion. It just happens the vast majority of nationalists were born into a catholic background and the vast number of unionists born into a prod. It becomes an associated way of labelling the other side. One side may have had a passion for wearing red shirts, the other blue.All the actual arguments and violence over the last 45 years aren’t over the different faiths in NI. They are about bunch A wanting to fully join one country and bunch B want to remain out of that country and remain in union with another country.
Actually it started over the Catholics trying to get the same rights as protestants
That wasn’t exactly the only or main issue how Collins etc ( rightly ) saw it and then De Valera wanted to carry on with.Freight Dog has got it more or less right.
I thought we were on about the troubles
If the troubles since then were all just about religious equality in the north there obviously wouldn’t be any ongoing issues concerning the nationalist v unionist cause there.As freight dog said it’s first and foremost an issue of nationalist v unionist with the one of religious differences just being a by product and side issue to that.
It was a bit about religion but mostly about nationalist and unionist
It’s mainly as freight dog said the two different religious outlooks just often characterise the two rival ideologies.Ironically those religious differences now seeming to apply least where they mostly applied and started with the CofE here.
The fact is even without those religious differences the unionist v nationalist issue applies throughout.In which as you’ve seen here it is possible to be English and christened into the CofE while at the same time rejecting much of that church’s values and the idea of unionism and supporting nationalism.Somehow I think that might just blow the minds of those like Paisley. 
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
That wasn’t exactly the only or main issue how Collins etc ( rightly ) saw it and then De Valera wanted to carry on with.Freight Dog has got it more or less right.Ah yes Eamon DeValera and Michael Collins, two well known Englishmen by your standards
If you’d have said Ian Paisley I’d have agreed with you.
I bet Ian Paisley wouldn’t though
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
That wasn’t exactly the only or main issue how Collins etc ( rightly ) saw it and then De Valera wanted to carry on with.Freight Dog has got it more or less right.Ah yes Eamon DeValera and Michael Collins, two well known Englishmen by your standards
If you’d have said Ian Paisley I’d have agreed with you.
I bet Ian Paisley wouldn’t though
Picture the scene Paisley shouting we will never surrender just as I tell him sorry England has withdrawn from the Union as of midnight tonight.What flag will he use then and who will he be united with. 
I do wonder if the politicians rub their hands with glee when they see the arguments going on about illegal immigration, cyclists vs lorries, benefits claimants vs non-claimants etc. We are living in a country held together with string and gaffa tape, struggling to deal with above-inflation price rises and below-inflation wage rises, yet rather than everybody attacking the government for their greed and lack if foresight, we’re all fighting amongst ourselves.
The people in the container, whatever their reason for coming here and the rights and wrongs of it, have endured a truly horrific ordeal, and if it was up to me id be using every power at my disposal to go after the traffickers rather than sit back and watch the people that I was responsible for arguing whether some if the poorest people in the world should be treated like ■■■■.
scaniason:
I do wonder if the politicians rub their hands with glee when they see the arguments going on about illegal immigration, cyclists vs lorries, benefits claimants vs non-claimants etc. We are living in a country held together with string and gaffa tape, struggling to deal with above-inflation price rises and below-inflation wage rises, yet rather than everybody attacking the government for their greed and lack if foresight, we’re all fighting amongst ourselves.The people in the container, whatever their reason for coming here and the rights and wrongs of it, have endured a truly horrific ordeal, and if it was up to me id be using every power at my disposal to go after the traffickers rather than sit back and watch the people that I was responsible for arguing whether some if the poorest people in the world should be treated like [zb].
You won’t be able to sort out the problems of low wages,housing demand,and social services/health care provision and costs without a massive change in immigration policy.
The relevant issue in this case not dealing with the symptoms in the form of traffickers,but sorting out the cause.By answering the question what attracted this group to come here.Instead of going home to the Punjab where,according to documented ethnic demographic and agricultural and industrial opportunities in the region,they certainly won’t face the issues of persecution or poverty that they obviously face in Afghanistan.
Carryfast:
Picture the scene Paisley shouting we will never surrender just as I tell him sorry England has withdrawn from the Union as of midnight tonight.What flag will he use then and who will he be united with.
Have you ever had the balls to admit when you’re wrong? You’ve twisted this round so many times in attempt to prove your right. Your flapping round like a pheasant thats been hit by a car. For the last time, being from Northern Ireland doesn’t make anyone English. Same goes for Wales or Scotland. Whoever the union is with it doesn’t affect their nationality.
Are these people coming here because they believe the uk is utopia, or see they bring sold this line by the traffickers? I don’t believe that trafficking is a passive operation waiting for a few poverty stricken people to come along, I think it’s more likely to be a case of hard-sell / coercion / forced slavery on the part of the traffickers - not in all cases granted, but I bet a lot of the trafficked don’t even know where they are going to end up, only that they’ve been promised paradise in return got working off their passage.
Read the reports of the gang-style warfare breaking out in Calais - there’s a lot of organisation behind the illegals - It’s not all individuals making their own way towards the UK
Compared to where a lot of these people come from it is a utopia
Agreed - the stress in my sentence was on the word ‘they’. I wondered whether they are themselves trying for the uk, or whether the traffickers are pushing them here, knowing they can be easily exploited in our greed-driven materialistic society.
Either way, these poor sods shouldn’t be persecuted the way they are, either go all out for the traffickers, or for the ones who exploit them over here, but show some compassion for the poor buggers.
scaniason:
I do wonder if the politicians rub their hands with glee when they see the arguments going on about illegal immigration, cyclists vs lorries, benefits claimants vs non-claimants etc. We are living in a country held together with string and gaffa tape, struggling to deal with above-inflation price rises and below-inflation wage rises, yet rather than everybody attacking the government for their greed and lack if foresight, we’re all fighting amongst ourselves.The people in the container, whatever their reason for coming here and the rights and wrongs of it, have endured a truly horrific ordeal, and if it was up to me id be using every power at my disposal to go after the traffickers rather than sit back and watch the people that I was responsible for arguing whether some if the poorest people in the world should be treated like [zb].
Well known that nothing keeps slaves happier than squabbling over who’s got the shiniest manacles.
Can you guys keep this on topic please, illegal immigrants in a container NOT sorting out the troubles in Northern Ireland
.
Maybe you should read up on the subject instead of spouting silly incorrect assumptions based solely on what a flag looks like! Its actually comical for someone who should know better.
Denis F:
Can you guys keep this on topic please, illegal immigrants in a container NOT sorting out the troubles in Northern Ireland
Ah but Miss, keeping on topic is no fun. 
MISS MISS, CARRYFAST CALLED ME A RUDE WORD
scaniason:
Are these people coming here because they believe the uk is utopia, or see they bring sold this line by the traffickers? I don’t believe that trafficking is a passive operation waiting for a few poverty stricken people to come along, I think it’s more likely to be a case of hard-sell / coercion / forced slavery on the part of the traffickers - not in all cases granted, but I bet a lot of the trafficked don’t even know where they are going to end up, only that they’ve been promised paradise in return got working off their passage.Read the reports of the gang-style warfare breaking out in Calais - there’s a lot of organisation behind the illegals - It’s not all individuals making their own way towards the UK
The traffickers are just satisfying a demand that’s created by Britain’s open door immigration policy.In this case it’s obvious that the immigrants in question should be given emergency health treatment then immediately returned to a safe place that suits their ethnic origins.In this case that’s India.Then when word gets around the prospective immigrant groups of the change in UK policy the demand for trafficking will obviously stop.
scaniason:
Either way, these poor sods shouldn’t be persecuted the way they are, either go all out for the traffickers, or for the ones who exploit them over here, but show some compassion for the poor buggers.
Unfortunately it’s that bleeding heart compassionate response that is bringing them here.When what’s needed is some tough choices in the form of immediate repatriation to remove the demand.
So you’re agreeing with me that we should all be turning towards the government and holding them to account, rather than blaming the immigrants? Excellent, thank you 
scaniason:
So you’re agreeing with me that we should all be turning towards the government and holding them to account, rather than blaming the immigrants? Excellent, thank you
The best thing to do is to make England look worst