ChrisArbon:
I would love to drive the Silk Road to Bejing. I think I have the right truck. I think I have the right girlfriend and I think I have found an easy way to do it. Just need to get the finance together.
That’s f ing crazy… 170 days!! Haha
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Carryfast:
AndieHyde:
Bang right.I now live in New Zealand and despite Austrailia being our biggest and closest trading partner and established RO-RO services between our two nations, do you know how many unaccompanied Aussie trailers I have seen on the roads of Aotearoa■■? None…nada…zilch…
Why. Too much dicking around with handling, compliance , customs while a swing lift can come in and hoist a box on his trailer and be out of the gate in 5 minutes.
And these are two countries who are relativley close enough and maginally the same, good luck with the Yanks and Russians accepting each others trailers…Ironically there’s nothing like that type of aggro in the case of using US spec vehicles and trailers in UK/Europe for temporary entry.IE so long as it complies with its place of registration/operation it’s fine for temporary entry in our case.Which seems to have been the basis of ACL’s ongoing Transatlantic trailer operations for decades.While customs clearance seems no different.IE both trailers or containers seem to be treated the same in that case although probably not TIR.
Which ‘would’ have been one of the advantages of using an ‘accompanied’ outfit.‘Accompanied’ in that case just meaning the whole truck not just a trailer and then fly over to meet it when it docks and discharge the TIR carnet in the usual accepted way for international road journeys.As opposed to all the aggro of container/trailer operations clearance.Which also seemed to be confirmed by the interest shown by forwarders regarding that idea when I was looking into it.
As for the problem of DOT compliance I’d guess that the Russians would have more chance of that than us ( so far ) or the Euros because the Russians aren’t subject to EU type approval and already seem to use plenty of US spec kit themselves in that regard.Which is basically what stops a Euro spec/reg truck or trailer being able to be used in the US for commercial purposes.Unlike a US spec truck/trailer which is ok in all cases.But unfortunately just can’t be registered/based here.
Interesting point.
I can see the advantages of RoRo for the likes of special/abnormal cargo and having worked around motor racing teams myself, bringing over your own gear to a meeting would be huge. Customs shouldnt be a problem with a temperery importation carnet and as the driver in these situations usually has other roles like rigging ect, being granted a visa should be just a formality so for one off operations there will be a demand.
However, I seem to understand that American protectionist and union practises would prevent foreign operators from general cargo applications within their country which would make such a commercial venture unlikely.
I do like the spirit of adventure though, driving a Routemaster around downtown Tokyo would put a massive smile on my face till the day someone nails the lid on my box. I have allways said that if my 6 numbers came in, I would be straight into the local Rangerover dealership and set off for England just for $hi7s and giggles.
Technically, where ever there is human civilisation, trucks are not far away so in theory, should be able to be driven anywhere on the planet and only geo-political constaints prevent this from being a reality. Would be one hell of a conversation in an RDC in Stevenage. Driver 1"Where you loading for mate?" Driver 2 “Birmingham…Alabama!!!”
Technically, where ever there is human civilisation, trucks are not far away so in theory, should be able to be driven anywhere on the planet and only geo-political constaints prevent this from being a reality. Would be one hell of a conversation in an RDC in Stevenage. Driver 1"Where you loading for mate?" Driver 2 “Birmingham…Alabama!!!”
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We used to go into the transport office and ask for outward bound China… every one looked you…with a knowing look… The longest I was out was 162 days… but that included shuttling trailers from the Russian border to China and a Muscat thrown in for good measure…
Chris that looks like a bit of an adventure… I would assume that trucks mean pick up trucks ( utes )4x4’s etc not a Magnum, Globetrotter, Kenworth etc… one thing that I would question…leaving April back September… Really… out there all summer ■■? that’s pretty ■■■■■■■■■
Jeff…
There can always be exceptional circumstances or customer preferences for driver accompanied.
In the70s I had a lot of ME work from the US Van line companies who would ship to the UK & then I would fill up a stepframe. Could be around 8 house moves on board.
One company were pushing me to do the whole job, - same driver accompanied - loading in their San Francisco warehouse for Saudi & return – a dream job at the time.
My main problem was the shipping companies set their Ro-Ro charges so that the freight was additional to the carriage of the truck & therefore priced me out of it.
I still reminisce & think I should have tried harder for a solution, as I could have had that conversation: “Where you heading drive?” it could even have been Alabama one day
Reminds me of one of those dichotomy moments. Years ago I was in the drivers’ dining room on a ferry heading to Calais when a young driver asked if he could join me. He could hardly contain himself and proceeded to tell me he was going to Paris. It was his first trip abroad and his excitement was palpable. After rambling on about it for some time he finally asked me where I was heading. Now, I remembered the excitement of my first cross-channel run in a lorry and hesitated. I was actually heading to Saudi, but I had to make a split-second choice: tell him that I was going to the Arabian Gulf and prick his bubble; or rather patronisingly treat him like the breathless young thing he was and tell him I was heading for France (true, of course). I chose the latter, for there was plenty of time for him to meet the more travelled kind of driver on his return journey. Robert
whisperingsmith:
There can always be exceptional circumstances or customer preferences for driver accompanied.In the70s I had a lot of ME work from the US Van line companies who would ship to the UK & then I would fill up a stepframe. Could be around 8 house moves on board.
One company were pushing me to do the whole job, - same driver accompanied - loading in their San Francisco warehouse for Saudi & return – a dream job at the time.
My main problem was the shipping companies set their Ro-Ro charges so that the freight was additional to the carriage of the truck & therefore priced me out of it.
I still reminisce & think I should have tried harder for a solution, as I could have had that conversation: “Where you heading drive?” it could even have been Alabama one day
That’s similar to the customer interest and problems regarding shipping rates that I found when I was looking into doing a similar type of operation.From memory,in my case,I think it was a prohibitive vehicle height surcharge v container rates,not the load carried in either.That combined with the ridiculous US interpretation,of temporary entry of foreign vehicles for commercial purposes rules,which was the final nail in the idea.I’m not sure if that would have been easier in the 1970’s.But I’d guess the catch 22,of a providing DOT compliant vehicle,v UK/EU type approval to register/MOT/base/operate it from here would still have stopped you then,or at some point in the medium term,if the prohibitive ro ro rates didn’t,just as it did in my case. 
Having been baulked by the Ro-Ro rates CF, I didn’t delve much deeper, there were some issues with the Teamsters that looked like they could be overcome
and as the USA was a signatory to the T.I.R convention, I think with some diplomatic assistance they would be obliged to grant entry & exit.
whisperingsmith:
Having been baulked by the Ro-Ro rates CF, I didn’t delve much deeper, there were some issues with the Teamsters that looked like they could be overcome
and as the USA was a signatory to the T.I.R convention, I think with some diplomatic assistance they would be obliged to grant entry & exit.
The Teamsters probably wouldn’t have been an issue just like they don’t worry the Canadians going into and out of the US.But the DOT were a different matter.On that note they made it quite clear that,in their view ( probably correct ),DOT regs trump TIR.On that note the numerous phone conversations with them went along the lines of you must and you will comply with DOT requirements,including vehicle spec, ‘if’ you want to run freight into and out of the US and by implication also Canada.With the relevant authorities here saying along the lines of we aren’t aware of anyone running TIR to North America,or likely to do so and the truck must obviously be type UK type approved to be registered and operated from here regardless.At which point I gave up and didn’t see much point in getting the foreign office involved. 
While cross border operations between the US and Canada etc seem to confirm that the US Government/DOT conditions of operation/entry trump any other accepted norms of international road transport operation.As in the case of Canada the US seeming to apply a weird double standard of local/domestic operating requirements/standards having to be met for international freight movements.With such Canadian operations for example seeming to be just an extension of US operating conditions including no need for TIR clearance.While subject to other expected norms of international road transport such as cabotage restrictions. 
The result being that there’s no way that they’ll allow a Euro type approved vehicle in there and there’s no way that we’ll allow anyone to operate a US spec DOT compliant truck based here.But,unlike there,we will allow US spec vehicles in on a temporary basis.Hence ACL having no problem with running unaccompanied US spec and based trailers on UK/US operations.Just as would be the case if it was a US spec/based accompanied outfit.The problem then being that they won’t allow a foreign national to register and operate a truck based over there. 
TIR has nothing to do with UK to US freight, unless you go the long way round. TIR allows transit without the need for customs clearance, tax, bonus etc. Crossing the Atlantic Ocean doesn’t involve transiting another country so TIR Carnets are not needed.
It is possible to run a non DOT compliant truck in the USA, it’s been done a few times, there was a Renault Magnum that went out there with some old vintage sports cars, the offshore boat racing teams run over there too, I’ve personally seen a 4 series Scania and Volvo FH running down I-95 in Virginia, I’ve seen Swiss and German registered coaches on the road over here too.
During my spell at TRUCK magazine I met up with the driver of a Hewlett Packard display trailer pulled by a Renault Magnum, he had done a world tour with it, I’m not sure it went Stateside, but he had been to South Africa, Australia and all over SE Asia with it. A lot of boats and even planes were involved and it wasn’t a haulage operation as such, but that Magnum has to be the most travelled British registered lorry ever.
Bonds not bonus!
STOP PRESS !! Is “CF” going to emigrate to the USA ? I think he is a bit late because Trumpy has signed an Excec order to-day banning all undesirables from entering the Country so it looks like “CF” has “missed the boat” literally ! Oh! Bollox that’s a right ■■■■■■ !! Cheers Bewick.
> newmercman:
> TIR has nothing to do with UK to US freight, unless you go the long way round. TIR allows transit without the need for customs clearance, tax, bonus etc. Crossing the Atlantic Ocean doesn’t involve transiting another country so TIR Carnets are not needed.
I guess you are correct there newmercman, although in my case it would have had to be TIR - sealed in the USA & cleared from TIR at the Turkey/Syria border & vice versa for the return trip.
In hindsight setting up in the USA might have solved many of the issues & I could have shipped to Holland & avoided the UK
newmercman:
TIR has nothing to do with UK to US freight, unless you go the long way round. TIR allows transit without the need for customs clearance, tax, bonus etc. Crossing the Atlantic Ocean doesn’t involve transiting another country so TIR Carnets are not needed.It is possible to run a non DOT compliant truck in the USA, it’s been done a few times, there was a Renault Magnum that went out there with some old vintage sports cars, the offshore boat racing teams run over there too, I’ve personally seen a 4 series Scania and Volvo FH running down I-95 in Virginia, I’ve seen Swiss and German registered coaches on the road over here too.
During my spell at TRUCK magazine I met up with the driver of a Hewlett Packard display trailer pulled by a Renault Magnum, he had done a world tour with it, I’m not sure it went Stateside, but he had been to South Africa, Australia and all over SE Asia with it. A lot of boats and even planes were involved and it wasn’t a haulage operation as such, but that Magnum has to be the most travelled British registered lorry ever.
Running to US via Halifax certainly does fit the definition of transiting ‘another country’ to get to the US.While,as confirmed to me by a number of forwarders,TIR seems to provide for quicker clearance than usual containers/trailer facilities.Which is one of the reasons why they were quite interested in the idea.On that note if I’ve got it right TIR was/is also as relevant for one border crossing as 10 ?.IE pre EU I think TIR applied whether delivering/collecting just to/from France as it did for Italy for example ?.Also bearing in mind the US see reason to be a TIR signatory for some reason.
As for US DOT compliance the point was that you can’t ‘collect’ and/or ‘deliver’ a commercial load into or out of the US and by implication also Canada without it ?.All the other examples involve only own account for temporary import such as subject to an ATA Carnet and/or just transit such as the IVECO Italy/NY expedition.
As for the idea of a Euro-Russia-Alaska highway.It’s ironic that would involve transiting a country which seems to no longer recognise the TIR convention applying extra conditions.To get to another which says that you must use a US spec truck,subject to US domestic standards,for temporary entry to get in to deliver and collect an international load.It’s also anyone’s guess what the US border control will make of the TIR sign.Especially when the driver says you should know you’ve signed up to it and I’ve just driven around 12,000 miles to get here and I don’t want to have to turn around and go back if I can avoid it.
The only place you’ll be transiting is fantasy land, I don’t think they signed up to the TIR convention.
Why on earth would anybody send freight on a round the world truck journey when they can put it on a ship at a fraction of the cost and journey time?
Even if they do dig a hole between Russia and Alaska, which is unlikely as there’s not much going on in eastern Russia and apart from Anchorage and Fairbanks, Alaska, the Yukon and North West Territories and northern Alberta and BC are pretty much devoid of industry and people.
newmercman:
The only place you’ll be transiting is fantasy land, I don’t think they signed up to the TIR convention.Why on earth would anybody send freight on a round the world truck journey when they can put it on a ship at a fraction of the cost and journey time?
Even if they do dig a hole between Russia and Alaska, which is unlikely as there’s not much going on in eastern Russia and apart from Anchorage and Fairbanks, Alaska, the Yukon and North West Territories and northern Alberta and BC are pretty much devoid of industry and people.
But imagine somebody found the biggest deposit of oil up there, that would change the dynamic somewhat.
“Sorry America, we know you have all that drilling gear but you just cant move it to eastern Russsia because you didnt sign up to TIR”
I mean nobody gave a crap about arab nations in the civilised world until Mr. Benz and Dr.Diesel found ingenious uses for the black stuff just ouzing out of the ground.
How far could you go?? The future could hold the key to go nowhere. Because the solar powered, self driving
truck of the new age doesnt even need you to be there.
I for one, welcome our new robot overlords and look forward to my orderly desposal.
newmercman:
The only place you’ll be transiting is fantasy land, I don’t think they signed up to the TIR convention.Why on earth would anybody send freight on a round the world truck journey when they can put it on a ship at a fraction of the cost and journey time?
Even if they do dig a hole between Russia and Alaska, which is unlikely as there’s not much going on in eastern Russia and apart from Anchorage and Fairbanks, Alaska, the Yukon and North West Territories and northern Alberta and BC are pretty much devoid of industry and people.
Russia has long been a TIR state just like more or less everywhere else we’re likely to take a truck to/from.The same applies in the case of the US and Canada but they just don’t seem to know it.
While ironically the trans Euro/Alaska highway seems to be a Russian idea to ‘revitalise’ its transport industry.Russia having recently thrown their toys out of the pram regarding TIR and unilaterally seemingly imposing extra regulatory burdens in that regard on anyone running a truck load into/through Russia by road.
While the Daily Mail seems to have missed the point that even if Russia does suddenly realise what its doing in a rare moment of clarity from the vodka induced fog ,as you rightly say and I said previously,there’s still no way that anyone with any sense is going to drive a truck load around 12,000 miles just to get to Alaska. When there’s perfectly good ro ro and container Transatlantic sea links from UK to the North American East Coast from Halifax to Miami.Which is obviously a lot better even if the load is destined for Anchorage,let alone the East or Mid West or South or even LA. 
Which just leaves that issue of the Americans not letting anyone from here in,to make optimum use of it,because of their seeming ignorance of the finer points of ‘proper’ international road transport operations.Not helped by the fact that the relevant Brit authorities long seem to have forgot more than the Americans ever knew in that regard.In addition to the ro ro operators deciding to,unnecessarily,charge massive amounts more money to ship a truck than a container. 
There was a T/N member,(skipvitesse?) who apparently put a truck plus trailer with race cars on, from the UK and shipped it over to the USA via a car transporter ship. I think it was either a Magnum or a Volvo VN. Got off on the other side (USA), drove around and did whatever he was there to do then came back.
It`s on the forum somewhere but I couldn’t find the link.
Carryfast:
newmercman:
The only place you’ll be transiting is fantasy land, I don’t think they signed up to the TIR convention.Why on earth would anybody send freight on a round the world truck journey when they can put it on a ship at a fraction of the cost and journey time?
Even if they do dig a hole between Russia and Alaska, which is unlikely as there’s not much going on in eastern Russia and apart from Anchorage and Fairbanks, Alaska, the Yukon and North West Territories and northern Alberta and BC are pretty much devoid of industry and people.
Russia has long been a TIR state just like more or less everywhere else we’re likely to take a truck to/from.The same applies in the case of the US and Canada but they just don’t seem to know it.
While ironically the trans Euro/Alaska highway seems to be a Russian idea to ‘revitalise’ its transport industry.Russia having recently thrown their toys out of the pram regarding TIR and unilaterally seemingly imposing extra regulatory burdens in that regard on anyone running a truck load into/through Russia by road.
While the Daily Mail seems to have missed the point that even if Russia does suddenly realise what its doing in a rare moment of clarity from the vodka induced fog
Which just leaves that issue of the Americans not letting anyone from here in,to make optimum use of it,because of their seeming ignorance of the finer points of ‘proper’ international road transport operations.Not helped by the fact that the relevant Brit authorities long seem to have forgot more than the Americans ever knew in that regard.In addition to the ro ro operators deciding to,unnecessarily,charge massive amounts more money to ship a truck than a container.
The thing is …that’s what you’re up against …dumb ■■■ red tape … it doesn’t matter how dumb it is there’s usually no way round it… They’ve put measures in for their own protection, if you get round one bit, there’ll be another one round the corner that’s just as interesting…and now that they have a guy in charge that ware’s a dead cat on his head there’s no telling how more dumb ■■■ it’s going to get…
Skipvitesse had a blue Magnum to pull his car transporter…there was also a Dutch guy that took a Blue Scania and tri axle trailer converted into a motor home. Ferdy had a thread on it… I think he went over for a week or two for a trundle about… I don’t know what kind of transit tax the Americans would charge for a " rest of the world " truck to enjoy their roads… but I recon it would be fairly prohibitive for a normal sort of bloke…
Jeff…
There’s a Long Distance Diary from an old TRUCK mag with the Magnum (I’m sure it was red!) trip to USA. I only threw the cutting out recently. Maybe DEANB will have it, as he seems to be good on LDDs. Robert
The likelihood of a foreign lorry turning up at a US port of entry is highly unlikely, so they can get away with insisting that everything on the roads is DOT compliant. They also have a vested interest in keeping cheaper Mexican trucks south of the border, so operating authority is only granted to American and Canadian hauliers.
Realistically America is a final destination in terms of TIR, so my thoughts on why they joined up is so that a box can be loaded in a landlocked country and transit under TIR to the nearest deep sea port for shipment to the US or Canada.
Stuff does come via deep sea container into Canada for shipment to the US and vice versa, it then travels in bond to the appropriate border where the bond is lifted, perhaps that’s part of the TIR convention?