Yesterday I received a call early in the afternoon from a company we had not dealt with before, but we had been recommended by another company we do work for. The query was, could we take a jet engine from Manchester Airport to the engine repair facility at Heathrow. It was urgent and had to be at Heathrow by 08.00 Saturday morning. It had to be loaded on a flat trailer. So I asked a driver if he could work Saturday and he agreed. Got the job details etc. and was told that the engine and cradle weighed 6.5 tonnes, it needed 10-tonne breaking strain straps and sheeting. A diagram of the strapping points was provided. As we don’t have 10-tonne breaking strain straps I asked the client if my driver could chain it and the customer agreed providing our chains met the required breaking strain, which they do. So my driver went to collect the engine and him being honest, when asked he said that he had never carried a jet engine in a cradle before. But he has 30 years flat trailer experience including wide, long, abnormal, and STGO loads, all of which have needed chaining. So the conversation then went… “OK driver, show us your certificate to prove that you are competent to use chains”. Well the driver did not have the required certificate to prove that he probably knew more about chaining loads than the person who issues these certificates and they refused to load the engine. I truly do wonder how the job ever got done years ago without all these pettifogging regulations and irritating jobsworths.
A certificate to prove you’ve got the knowledge of how to chain a load…■■? Well, there’s a first time for everything I reckon…
I’ve been on heavy haulage work for some 12 odd years give or take, and this is the first time I’ve read/heard something about it…
Some ■■■■■■ at the H&S department came up with that presumably…
Cheers, Patrick
Common sense is dead. Back in the day (and to some extent the same today) we were taught, usually by our elders how to do the job, that was the way you got your experience, on the job, and |I maintain there’ no finer way of learning that that. And a gaffer who sent a man out on a job WITHOUT the relevant experience…would be a fool. Now a man with 30years ‘on the job’ experience, being told to go home because he didn’t have a certificate is, with the best will in the world, pathetic
Good day all.
Don’t think this type of gross mismanagement only happens on your side of the planet,some 12 years ago I was told by the Toll management to report for a course on load restraint under threat of never loading again for Tolls if I didn’t so I duly did with some 20odd others obviously believing I was going to be told I had been doing it wrong for the previous 30odd years anyhow after more than 1/2 an hour of watching slide photos of numerous trucks with loads that had moved/slipped about to fall off or already off I stuck the finger up and politely inquired when we were going to shown the correct way to use chains/ straps etc.
The answer came as a shock we were told there was no incorrect way as every body does it different and as long as the load dosent move slip or fall off it must be correct,being a bit short on the fuse occasionally i replied "what a f… way to waste a day and got up and walked out, my boss followed and said I should apologise as i had been a bit harsh on the instructor I said you should be apologising to me this is just another arse wiping exercise by management and a total wast of time to us who attended,I duly received my certificate to say I was competent and had passed the course with flying colours.
Cheers Dig
A lot of these Certificates for this that and the other were started by these training companies that sprang up around 20 years ago and decided that it would be a nice little earner to produce courses on various subjects relating to industry and transport when there was no real legal requirement for them. The Forktruck license is a typical example where many people who had years of experience using these things were told they needed a license, ok fine but unlike the car and HGV license they then come up with ‘Ah but you need a refresher every three years’ so ensuring more hard earned would come their way. What a load of baloney, today you can fill your wall with framed certificates of courses passed from H&S to tying your boot laces and having to repeat the same boring exercise three or so years later. Companies must have spent a fortune on unnecessary refresher and pointless courses for their staff which unfortunately these days are thought of as a legal requirement. I will happily burn all my draw full of certificates I’ve amassed over the years when I retire next year which haven’t seen the light of day since I was given them. Cheers Franky.
You mention a fork-lift licence. I had to take both courses, and the Instructor told me that when unloading a lorry I had to take the keys from the driver to prevent him moving the vehicle whilst the fork truck was over the bed. “You try conviscating a wagon driver’s keys cos I like my face the way it is”. He just shrugged his shoulders and carried on. It was £70 a day and the courses spanned 3 days. AND the licence has to be refreshed every 2 years. We also had Manual Handling, Abrasive Wheels, Slinging. Overhead gantry, Pressure vessels, Risk Assessment and Chemical Awareness - cannot remember what else. I was a WELDER for God.s sake and had been for 30 years . Jim.
That’s exactly it Jim, since I’ve worked for the Fire Service I’ve done countless courses and refreshers more than I did when working for private firms, organisations like this really get stung when it comes to outside bodies making money, they just see it as a Public Sector organisation that is funded by the taxpayer so is rife to scam in some cases and unfortunately uniformed officers in charge of departments are not businessmen so show them something bright and shiny or baffle them with bull and they will buy a dozen of everything. I looked up the Forklift refresher thing a few years ago and refreshers are only suggested to ensure those using them as their job don’t get into bad habits and abide by the legislation which may be fine for a specific FLT driver yet it isn’t law. In our case we only use the forklift occasionally so we felt refreshers of 3 yearly periods were unnecessary but our Managers didn’t want to know. I have to say some course Instructors are abysmal from these so called expert training centres but you just have to bite your tongue and get it done, its something I won’t miss. Cheers Franky.
A few years before I took the option to draw my considerable state pension (couldn’t resist!) the company I worked for had an unfortunate accident involving one of their lorries whose load had slipped. At the enquiry they were asked what measures were in place to prevent this sort of thing happening. The upshot of it was that they had to undertake to provide Load Security courses with refreshers every two years.
The “instructor” turned out to be a retired wheelright! 
Is it me?
I recall that in the early 90’s “flavour of the month” was getting that BS 9001 or whatever and I had a visit from a “banker” (W) who tried to tell me that Bewick Transport would benefit from becoming accredited and he explained in a “nut shell” that if I was to fall under a bus ( after we were accredited) someone could sit in the chair behind my desk, pull out the “book” from the draw and carry on running the business in a seamless manner, yes ! and he was ■■■■■■■ serious ! Although I never reckoned much to “Fast Eddie” this was one thing that him and me agreed about and that was what total lot of Bollox this ISO 9000 ( or whatever) was. I also recall that the short time I was a WRM Director the Scotch firm AM which they had bought out were full of ■■■■■ about how much better they were than firms that hadn’t got this ISO thingy so at a Board meeting one day the AM MD was spouting this Bollox so I piped up and says we don’t need it at Bewicks as our standards are higher the same as “Fast Eddies”, absolute ■■■■■■■ silence !! I kid you not, and further more none of our Customers required us to have this “Mickey Mouse” certificate. Obviously, times have changed by the sound of things and common sense has gone out of the window and has been replaced by “jobsworths” and Planners et al and Drivers can’t go for “a ■■■■” until they are told to. I’m glad to be out of it. Bewick.
In the late eighties I was on contract to I.C.I. and the ‘buzz word’ at the time was B.S. 5750.
My cousin who was an electrician on one of the sites occasionally drove one of their cars which was a Ford Mondeo and told me that because of this he had to go on a ‘Defensive Driving Course’.
WOW, I thought, that sounds interesting, I wonder what that involves as I think that it was the first time that I had ever heard this expression. About six months later all the lorry drivers were told that we must also do the course which involved travelling over to Huddersfield to spend a Saturday morning.
We had to sit at a desk for a couple of hours and just like DIG we were also shown lots of photos and slides of vehicle accidents.
After having a twenty minute break, a free coffee and a bacon sandwich we were all given a clipboard, a sheet of A4 paper and a pen with the training companies name on it. The trainer told us that we had half an hour to write an essay on how to move a load of computer equipment up three flights of stairs and what our thoughts were on safety. Bearing in mind that computers had to sit for over 24 hours to acclimatize to the ambient temperature of the room that they were to be installed.
All the drivers looked at each other and thought W.T.F. so after about fifteen minutes when he realised that nobody was taking any interest he said that time was up and collected all the pieces of paper. He didn’t even look at the papers and just put them into a folder and when somebody asked him what would of been the correct answer he replied " the best thing to do would be to contact a computer specialist removal company". 
If it wasn’t for the free clipboard, the bacon sandwich and being paid four hours at time and a half then I would say that B.S.5750 was a waste of time and we had all worked out what the B.S. stood for. 
I bang on about ‘old lads giving on the job training’, In 1984 I did a couple of weeks agency work, (i’d been made redundant) One job I got IIRC was chipboard from (I think) up around Ayr in Scotland. I’d never done that sort of work before and I thought …bang it on, throw a couple of straps on, pull the curtains and off we go. I was soon made aware of the error of my ways by a few old lads who were regulars on the job and were loading at the same time. “Nay laddie, if you set off with it like that it’ll come straight off at the first corner”. I never loaded chipboard ever again…but I’ve never forgot the ‘on the job training’
G.O.M. raises another point where a desk-bound “expert” can never replace experience and learning from guys who have been at the job for years and keep newbies safe. Ever driven a lorry on multi-drops where the dynamics and centre of gravity changes from start to finish? Of course you have and most of you understand when I bring up fluids in tankers and hanging beef or frozen lambs in fridge boxes. Roundabouts, hills, mountain passes and even road junctions all had to be treated differently - don’t forget braking systems were poor to the point of non-existant 40 years ago. The Volvo F88 has always been regarded as a shining star back in those days, but the brakes were awfull. We ran them grossing 45+ tons so with your load hanging from the roof and starting to get more lively with each drop you had to read the road well in advance. How the Petro - Chemical boys drove was an art and I believe they must be born heroes and mega confident in their skill to have done, and still do, that job. And still car drivers shake their fists at them for treating the conditions with the respect due. Jim.
Jim, despite the F88 being my favourite lorry of the time, I have to agree with the braking issue. I used to adjust the 88’s brakes twice a week but still felt as though I was relying more on the trailer brakes than the Volvo’s. When I mentioned it to my boss I was told that he paid me to go, not stop.
My first involvement with elf n safety was in 2000 . Went with the hiab to load palleted cement for groundwork , a job i’d done for years . Mr elf n safety appears , " you can’t climb on the lorry bed " , me " the controls are up there and if i don’t lift the crane you can’t load me " . Him , " but the load has to be there today , they’re waiting for it " . A lengthy impasse ensued while he wrestled with the dilemma until the plant manager blew the tea break hooter . While they were gone the foreman loaded me double quick and i was sheeted up by the time they came back . After that it was loaded on a flat and transhipped at the yard . All for the sake of climbing the same 3 steps i climbed 10 times a day . Dave
We just got on with the job Then someone invented the BS5750, Then the ISO Something or other, What a load of ■■■■■■■■, It cost lots of money to comply to, Of course the hauliers & the other firms that had to have it had to pay for their involvement, Regards Larry.
I remember when the Hazchem was brought in, I attended a seminar regarding this, It was organised by the RHA IIRC, Anyway it was not well attended to say the least, About a dozen people were there, At the end of the night we were all asked if we had any questions regarding the requirements as displaying the required Orange plates on our vehicles transporting notifiable waste or chemicals wasnt legal on the front of the wagon only on the rear, But we were informed that law was about to be changed as such, The speaker asked what one would do if a vehicle transporting these loads would do if the vehicle caught fire, I replied dial 999 & call the Fire Brigade, The cheeky bugger said you do have a fire extingquisher in the cab as reqired by law, Of course me wagons have them, But they are the size of a bottle of beer, What the ■■■■ do you think that would do, He had no answer to that, There again IMO He was still wet behind the ears, The of course the law changed & they moved onto ADR , Another money making exercise for the haulier to pay for, My drivers had the Hazchem as we hauled fertilzers in which case some of these loads came under these regulations, But when ADR Came into force I said stuff it we didnt get any extra money for hauling these loads so we stopped doing it, Regards Larry.
grumpy old man:
I bang on about ‘old lads giving on the job training’, In 1984 I did a couple of weeks agency work, (i’d been made redundant) One job I got IIRC was chipboard from (I think) up around Ayr in Scotland. I’d never done that sort of work before and I thought …bang it on, throw a couple of straps on, pull the curtains and off we go. I was soon made aware of the error of my ways by a few old lads who were regulars on the job and were loading at the same time. “Nay laddie, if you set off with it like that it’ll come straight off at the first corner”. I never loaded chipboard ever again…but I’ve never forgot the ‘on the job training’
Wasn’t Caberboard at Irvine was it? They used to do the laminated chipboard that was as slippery as the loads of steel I used to take up to Irvine before loading the chipboard back.
Im surprised that the DCPC hasnt been mentioned yet that`s got to be the biggest moneymaking pile of crap ever
coiler:
grumpy old man:
I bang on about ‘old lads giving on the job training’, In 1984 I did a couple of weeks agency work, (i’d been made redundant) One job I got IIRC was chipboard from (I think) up around Ayr in Scotland. I’d never done that sort of work before and I thought …bang it on, throw a couple of straps on, pull the curtains and off we go. I was soon made aware of the error of my ways by a few old lads who were regulars on the job and were loading at the same time. “Nay laddie, if you set off with it like that it’ll come straight off at the first corner”. I never loaded chipboard ever again…but I’ve never forgot the ‘on the job training’Wasn’t Caberboard at Irvine was it? They used to do the laminated chipboard that was as slippery as the loads of steel I used to take up to Irvine before loading the chipboard back.
It could very well have been, it was a while ago and my memory ‘could be better’
coiler:
Wasn’t Caberboard at Irvine was it? They used to do the laminated chipboard that was as slippery as the loads of steel I used to take up to Irvine before loading the chipboard back.
That comment reminds me of the “Oiled & Pickled” steel we used to carry. Dozens of straps, ropes, old sheets and hessian bags were employed to stop the ■■■■ stuff moving.