You need to understand that you’re mixing up three different pieces of legislation here:
Your Carer work comes under Working Time Directive, link 1. There is no mention of POA being applicable
As far as I can see, all the time you spend on shift as a Carer, except for the 20 minute rest periods (WTD has different rest requirements to RTD), will be considered “work” as (i) you are paid for this time and (ii) you cannot “freely dispose” of your time to do something else, like leave your client in bed with his movie while you to go out to a pub, cinema or restaurant. Link 2 discusses care work (albeit though the authors of that link don’t understand the difference between “affect” and “effect” )
POA applies only to “in scope” work, ie being “in scope of EU Drivers Hours (aka 561/2006)” . Road Transport Directive is the applicable working time rules here, for what is termed “mobile workers”.
The document in link 3 is old, but it should help you understand things a bit better
That’s really helpful, thanks.
It looks like I have to give up one.
As the work’s only available in Dec, it’ll be the driving.
It’s gonna be a “thin” xmas.
Thanks EVERYONE!
Issues addressed.
I also called the DVSA yesterday.
In simple terms, care work is incompatible with driving as soon as you introduce a sleep in element.
As it is, I’ve suspended sleeps, but I’m not getting enough in return to make it worthwhile.
My hope was to get perm 7.5T work out of it.
Good that DVSA removed any doubt about the legality of it.
I can see it isn’t good news about what you would like to do, and that it is unlikely to have been a genuine safety issue, but the rules (like 'em or not) are there.
Good luck with finding a perm driving job if that is what you are after.
On the chance that anyone knows of a perm job where are you?
why does it matter where the op is sleeping. is there a law that says unless your driving a truck you must sleep in your own bed? If that is the case how do people go away for work.
only issue i can see is that the op may be woken in the night to deal with the client and because he is being paid he would then have to restart his 9/11 hours which could potentially cause issue with the start time for the driving gig
Just because he’s sleeping doesn’t mean he can count it as Daily Rest, he’s at work, being paid for this time as part of his shift. “A rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver may freely dispose of their time”. He cannot “freely dispose of his time”, he is on shift to look after his client.
if he is being paid an hourly rate throughout the shift regardless of being asleep or helping the client in some way that is different obviously however most care jobs i have come across that include a sleep in cover its a fixed rate like night out money. Difference being if he is woken to deal with an issue they then get either paid hourly rate or overtime.
the definition of a rest has always been a bone of contention with me. If i have to go to an rdc and sit in a waiting room unable to leave untill im tipped is that a rest? im not doing any work but i am unable to go for a smoke, stretch my legs or watch youtube videos without disturbing others. Therefore i wouldn’t say it was a rest. However if i put it on rest and got stopped by powers that be outside the gate im sure they wouldnt have an issue with it. However if i can sit in the cab and watch youtube or go for a smoke etc i have no issue with putting it on rest
back to the topic in hand surly the same logic would apply. Ok the op cant go to the cinema or go for a meal with friends but nor could a truck driver at an rdc
ps im not meaing this as an argument against the advice given the op has spoken to the powers that be and been told no so thats the end of it. I am simply wondering why
This is why I’d LIKE to call it a POA…
I’m available IF needed, though I never have been in the last six months.
The reason that this is frustrating, is that if I DO the sleep in, it’s eight hours of work to go on my tacho, while I’m asleep.
I get why it’s a hard and fast rule.
…it’s open to abuse.
you cant use poa as daily rest though. As an example poa is for when your boss says sorry your lorry is not back it will be back here in 30 minuets. It is to be used when the waiting time is known in advance. However, im not sure if you can go from poa to daily rest with out raising flags.
I wouldn’t claim to know anything about Care work remuneration,
but Night Out Money is not “pay”, it’s a non-taxable subsistence allowance as compensation for being separated from the comforts of home: £26.20 per night with a sleeper cab, £34.90 per night with no sleeper cab - figures from 2014, probably about time this was re-examined in line with inflation.
OP may find a loophole by examining his Employment Contract, but I wouldn’t bet on it
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