JeffA:
Theres certainly an argument that bosses pay minimum wage and stay there but saying min wage “held back” wages is over-reaching. Would bosses really have put wages up as fast as minimum wage goes up? Remember bosses were paying 50pence an hour back in the mid-90s. The tories might only put 50 pence on the min wage once a decade - but thats more than most bosses would.
The market is now deciding what wages should be now though. Bosses of the big supermarket and logistics concerns realise that the last 20yrs of government subsidised low wages and cheap imported labour to prop it up is coming to an end. The scare headlines of threats of empty shelves and Christmas shortages are a last desperate attempt to try and force government to continue that con. So far government isn’t backing down (they’ve got one eye on the working classes in the Red Wall constituencies where this message is going down well) but remember these big supermarkets are big political party donaters too so watch this space……. And enjoy those wage rises while they’re here
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The market deciding what to pay you is a good thing? What if they import 200,000 Indian drivers who would work for a boiled egg a day? A min wage will be a blessing then.
I dont think the market is in charge at the minute - I think its a situation they are trying to respond to - as soon as possible they will pay min wage again.
GOG47:
remember these big supermarkets are big political party donaters too so watch this space…
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Lord Sainsbury is the UK’s biggest political donor overall, handing out some £40m. In 2016, he gave £2m each to Labour and the Liberal Democrats ahead of the EU referendum. In 2019 the Lib Dems’ got £8 million.
Tesco leans more to the left than the right.
Sainsbury’s and Argos appear very left wing. The RDC at Heywood celebrates every single “inclusion day” imaginable.
Nothing wrong with that of course except… It’s all for show.
A left wing supermarket? A lot of confusion comes when a company says “dont hate blacks” - that must mean they are left wing but see if you can find a supermarket offering to pay more tax or pay a bit more to the workers or reduce fat cat pay - no chance. They are left wing except when it comes to money then they will rob you like the tories that spawn them
Having flooded the haulage industry for years with flip flops, (that was bad enough) some bright spark then decides to flood it with the work shy and crooks.
The chorus orchestrated by the RHA grows ever louder and shriller “give us back our cheap ex communist labour! At least on a temporary basis” they cry “otherwise Christmas is lost!” they wail
These guys are running multi billion pound enterprises but it’s patently obvious they have no idea what has been happening with regards to the logistics of these organisations
It’s not Brexit, it’s not Covid, it’s not any other factor that had prompted the situation, it’s the money stupid!
IR35 came in on the 1st April this year and very soon after that our Eastern European colleagues made the discovery they’d run slap bang into the British tax system and boy did they get a nasty shock, that’s it they were off, “Why should I pay for the Queen? Sayonara suckers I’m going back to Bucharest on the next flight out”
So tell me this Mr Allan of Tesco and Mr Walker of Iceland, what difference would bringing your chums back on a temporary basis would there be? They’re still subject to PAYE and as we indigenous British already know, the more you earn, the more tax you pay
Wait until they start hitting the 40% threshold
I’m not arguing with him. Once the floodgates get opened again, there will always be an argument from these companies to keep them open. I don’t buy the suggestion that they just want the foreigners temporarily whilst they train up Brits, anybody that doesn’t see that for the total BS it is is incredibly naive. This is about not wanting to face up to long term higher wage bills and continued investment in training drivers & wanting a return to cheap ready qualified drivers landing on their lap.
It’s not up to lorry drivers to cop for poor pay & conditions so that Joe Public can save a few pence on their food items. If prices have to go up, so be it. It’s being laid bare how important drivers are to these companies operations, time to invest in them now after years of penny pinching and driving down their conditions.
There are tens of thousands of HGV license holders out there right now not doing the job, how about making serious attempts to get them back. It starts with offering good wages & perks alongside secure contracts working direct, not headline grabbing rates where you have to work through grubby agencies.
I find it quite funny how all the remainers have suddenly gone quiet after spending the past 4+ years categorically telling us that the EEs have no effect, work for the same rates as the natives and well, you’re just a wayciss! I even remember one particularly vocal and deluded remainer telling us that the shortage was absolutely nothing to do with EEs going back home, only for the CEO of a well-known South Wales haulier to appear on the TV a few hours later saying that was exactly what the problem is for his company, thus implying that his business relied on cheap labour and would no longer be profitable having to pay the market rates that home-grown drivers seek.
You’d think that the remainers - after being proved utterly wrong yet again - would be posting their messages of thanks to the brexiteers for giving them up to a 300% increase in pay, but all I hear are crickets. :shrug:
I note that another vocal remainer has flounced because of dissenting opinions and only now posts on his own website where all his followers must agree with him or have their posts deleted and be banned.
It’s not just about money either,for the past 20yrs the British working person has been compared unfavourably to the imported labour force, we’ve all heard the bosses tell anyone who’ll listen how the foreigners will work any hours/shifts and the indigenous worker is lazy etc Well, Bogdan or Miroslav was staying 20 to a house and sending every penny back to Romania or Bulgaria while Barry or Mick didn’t really want to head back down the road again after a bare 24 at home, he wanted to do normal stuff like spend time with his family or go for a pint with his mates. Now, all of a sudden we’re wanted again now they’re gone
I can sort of undestand them though. THey’re already bound to pay for truck/vehicle leases and no way to influence an ever increasing price of diesel. Wages are still the only thing they can control so they’ll try to keep them as low as possible for as long as possible.
GOG47:
It’s not just about money either,for the past 20yrs the British working person has been compared unfavourably to the imported labour force, we’ve all heard the bosses tell anyone who’ll listen how the foreigners will work any hours/shifts and the indigenous worker is lazy etc Well, Bogdan or Miroslav was staying 20 to a house and sending every penny back to Romania or Bulgaria while Barry or Mick didn’t really want to head back down the road again after a bare 24 at home, he wanted to do normal stuff like spend time with his family or go for a pint with his mates. Now, all of a sudden we’re wanted again now they’re gone
This is so fu-ing dumb I don’t even know where to begin.
ETS:
I can sort of undestand them though. THey’re already bound to pay for truck/vehicle leases and no way to influence an ever increasing price of diesel. Wages are still the only thing they can control so they’ll try to keep them as low as possible for as long as possible.
Not true, they also have control over the rate charged for haulage of their customer’s product. When they finally wake up to the hidden message in HMG’s attitude: " stop stabbing each other in the back… take control of your destiny and tell your customer the rate". Pay the rate Unilever, Coca Cola, Heinz or your product stays where it is in the factory and your production lines shut down.
Learn from your employees, because at the moment they have the stronger hand … all you have to do is copy them."
GOG47:
It’s not just about money either,for the past 20yrs the British working person has been compared unfavourably to the imported labour force, we’ve all heard the bosses tell anyone who’ll listen how the foreigners will work any hours/shifts and the indigenous worker is lazy etc Well, Bogdan or Miroslav was staying 20 to a house and sending every penny back to Romania or Bulgaria while Barry or Mick didn’t really want to head back down the road again after a bare 24 at home, he wanted to do normal stuff like spend time with his family or go for a pint with his mates. Now, all of a sudden we’re wanted again now they’re gone
This is so fu-ing dumb I don’t even know where to begin.
DCPCFML:
I note that another vocal remainer has flounced because of dissenting opinions and only now posts on his own website where all his followers must agree with him or have their posts deleted and be banned.
JeffA:
Calm down toryboys, the day the tories do something for hgv drivers will be the first. Believe you me, they will have you working for 2.50 an hour if they could - immigration to the UK hasnt fallen one jot - the tories have opened the doors to south east asia and India. The tories were furiously against minimum wage remember
And Labour didnt say they would open the doors to EE drivers at all - read it again.
and labour are the party of the working man ,don`t make me laugh.
one half are sneering metropolitan liberal tory lites, the other half a lunatic marxist mob stuck the seventies who seemingly despise their own country and sing to red flag and listen to billy bragg songs[remember him who now preaches from his million pound pile in burton bradstock…let the revolution begin comrades.
DCPCFML:
I find it quite funny how all the remainers have suddenly gone quiet after spending the past 4+ years categorically telling us that the EEs have no effect, work for the same rates as the natives and well, you’re just a wayciss! I even remember one particularly vocal and deluded remainer telling us that the shortage was absolutely nothing to do with EEs going back home, only for the CEO of a well-known South Wales haulier to appear on the TV a few hours later saying that was exactly what the problem is for his company, thus implying that his business relied on cheap labour and would no longer be profitable having to pay the market rates that home-grown drivers seek.
You’d think that the remainers - after being proved utterly wrong yet again - would be posting their messages of thanks to the brexiteers for giving them up to a 300% increase in pay, but all I hear are crickets. :shrug:
I note that another vocal remainer has flounced because of dissenting opinions and only now posts on his own website where all his followers must agree with him or have their posts deleted and be banned.
That’s a pretty accurate picture of the behaviour of Remainers. Most of them are clearly anti-worker and anti-socialist, which is why I defected to Brexit.
The continuity Remainers haven’t shut up though. They continue to agitate for reopening the floodgates, lest bosses be forced to put up pay, or lest rich consumers be forced to pay a proper rate for the things they buy to be produced.
When you talk about remainers and brexiteers the question is how much money they had. All the brexiteers demanding no more cheap labour are now faced with having to pay a living wage for the first time in their life.
JeffA:
I think the bexiteers were kinda hoping theyd get to keep the cheap labour!
That’s true of the right-wing Brexiteers, but it’s not true of the majority of Brexit voters I don’t think.
I’ve really never spoken to anyone who voted Brexit to increase immigration - especially because it was already possible to do so whilst inside the EU (and non-EU immigration actually reached a record level under May).
I think the rightwing brexiteer business owners were hoping the EEs would stay - no use sending them back if you have to now pay some scumbag a living wage
