HIGHWAYS TRAFFIC OFFICERS what do you think of them?

[rog]

extrucker:
But why not secure the remaining unstable load without moving the vehicle at all?.

I would imagine that it was not possible to safely secure it as it stood which is probable with steel - I used to haul all sorts of steel for 16 years but not the exact type of wire coils that was on that load.

[speedyguy]

del949:
Extrucker.
you may spend a lot of time educating road users. My point was that this is not what the organisation was originally intended for.
The reason given by government at the inception of the HATSO org was simply to alleviate congestion bt dealing with minor incidents.

As part of alleviating congestion, is not asking someone to get up a bit of speed before finding a gap and joining helping towards that, i am astounded every day by the amount of people who sit with the indicator on waiting for a 50 yard gap in lane 1 to do a 0-60 Mansell pitstop take off in front of a toxic chemical tanker, and the majority of the time the trucker is slated for causing an rtc to avoid said nupties.
The same applies to the earlier stated map readers,driver swappers,shaggers all doing it on the H/S waiting to get wiped off rather than just going up and over a slip

That would cause some congestion, The H/a try and close stuff as a last resort,
Rog, the whole steel incident throws up a load more questions than it answers, if the coils were as lethal as Mr Trumpton said ready to spring hundreds of feet and decap someone, why only shut lane 3 and not all the cars crawling pass 10ft away on the other c/way, should it have a full closure both ways?
And as stated many times there seemed to be no need for fire involvement, straight forward recovery job, how was that for a waste of taxpayers money, not to mention a misuse of resources leaving somewhere with reduced fire and rescue cover to attend a shed load of steel .

Police to Police,
Fire and rescue for that.
Hato’s for Traffic management.

Looks like the incident was over egged by fire and Plod ? For the camera ?

[lighting_mcqueen]

Hi guys and gals

I have just been reading this roadtransport.com/Articles/2 … hatos.html

Unfortunately it looks like this thread is going to be locked.

Can I just take this opportunity to thank all that gave some input and also if anyone has any queries or questions please ask and I am sure ether myself or one of the other hatos will try and answer. I can appreciate that some of you may have some negative views but can I ask that you contain your frustrations and keep it sweet and maybe just maybe we can avoid the topic being locked.
Keep safe…

[lighting_mcqueen]

Police to Police,
Fire and rescue for that.
Hato’s for Traffic management and coordinating other services to and
around the scene

[colingl]

Lighting mcqueen:
Unfortunately it looks like this thread is going to be locked.
:

Only if the insults start again.

[rog]

speedyguy:
Rog, the whole steel incident throws up a load more questions than it answers, if the coils were as lethal as Mr Trumpton said ready to spring hundreds of feet and decap someone, why only shut lane 3 and not all the cars crawling pass 10ft away on the other c/way, should it have a full closure both ways?

I did wonder that as well - I’ve known that type of banding to shoot the distance equivalent of about 8 lanes - ■■■■ scarey

[lighting_mcqueen]

Colingl:

Lighting mcqueen:
Unfortunately it looks like this thread is going to be locked.
:

Only if the insults start again.

[del949]

As the link says, there has been some constructive comments and some good natured banter.
it would be a shame if ANY thread was locked because of a couple of less than respectful posters.

Please, moderators, don’t lock threads… if there is problem , ban the numpties!

[bob_parr]

Hi all am a HATO and have come over for a look.

I am happy to answer any questions if I can and hope not to meet you guys (if you know what I mean)

I am not surprised to find the anti HATO sentiments, this happens wherever there is a role which includes a position of authority.

I have a service background of 6 years in the RAF Regiment and 14 years in the Police.

Just in case anyone wanted to fire a “wannabe copper” comment at me.

Hopefully this thread can continue without anymore ad hominem attacks.

[rog]

**:D :smiley: :smiley: Welcome bob parr :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:**          

bob parr:
I am not surprised to find the anti HATO sentiments

I wonder if the problem is in the pronounciation ‘HATE-O’ - only kidding

[chippy]

For what it’s worth I think Hato’s do a good job. There is now a presence of someone in authority, it may not be the Traffic police but there is a presence.

When other motorists see the Hato cars they start behaving themselves, which can only be for the good.

I would ask .Can the Hato people report to traffic police on dangerous and reckless driving by the the public?

Can they report such things as mobile phone use and tailgating amongst others?

If not why not?

Antway Hato I’m on your side.

[bosshogg]

If we see something blatantly dangerous, we will report it to the police, our only problem is effectively we are just another member of the public to the police, by the time an overstretched police patrol can respond, the offending vehicle is miles away so the driver tends to get away with it. However recently a patrol observed a vehicle driving the wrong way down a slip road before joining the carriageway heading in the right direction. this was reported to the police and the HATO patrol managed to stay behind the car until the police patrol caught up and the driver was arrested. So things are heading in the right direction regarding HATO and police interaction.

[trux]

Perhaps the incident should have raised the concern :-
Why were the steel coils loaded on that particular trailer in that fashion ?

Had they been loaded like that from steel mill ?
If so, perhaps that practice should not occur again.

Had the load been trans-shipped from a flat trailer by haulier or third party ?
In which case the same answer , Dont load it like that again.

In my experience with loading steel and coils of that nature , is that the coils generally run lengthways down the trailer and either in wells or scotched from sides, and normally on a flat-bed trailer or stripped out tilt, then sheeted and roped as safely and correctly as possible,
because theyre loaded by an over-head crane with an `L’ arm hook .

The practice of using curtain-siders to convey this type of load just tempts people to load it in an unsafe fashion just for convenience.

Lesson learnt by the driver me thinks. and he`s very lucky not to have been prosecuted,
just got away by the skin of his teeth with a technicallity there I think,
ie :- although the load had shifted on the vehicle, it had not actually left the confines of said vehicle , nor had it actually fell off .
Although it became an unsafe load it never made it to the floor to be classed as an unsafe load . double indemnity there, sorry .

I had the same sort of experience of a timber load shifting , on a flat /sheeted/roped/strapped trailer going round the A2 /M25 island one day ,
5 met cars , 2 Kent cars , a helicopter and a news reporter ,recovery haulier and the Chief Constable all came to the party.
Me stood there, very sheepishly looking sorry , got off with a ticking-off and only by de-fault technicallity. lesson learnt, dont always trust the loaders.

[del949]

includes a position of authority.

perhaps this is part of the problem.

As far as I can see Hato’s don’t really have any proper “authority”.
If they did they would be equivalent to the police, in which case normal police patrols would be more use, and more cost effective.
No matter how Hatos argue their case, they are not , and never will be, a viable alternative to police…IMO

[cruise_control]

del949:

includes a position of authority.

perhaps this is part of the problem.

As far as I can see Hato’s don’t really have any proper “authority”.
If they did they would be equivalent to the police, in which case normal police patrols would be more use, and more cost effective.
No matter how Hatos argue their case, they are not , and never will be, a viable alternative to police…IMO

sorry but I would say a lot of people think they are in fact traffic enforcement, as said earlier people react when they see one on the motorway which in a way could prevent something happening further down the motorway should the driver of kept doing what they shouldn’t of been doing when they saw HATO

Example: Some times they sit on top of motorway bridges, if I was to be given a £1 for every car driver that tap their breaks when they see them I could ring my boss, quit my job and leave truck at the next service station.

When I first saw them about I did initially think they were part of VOSA as they carry similar markings.

Their job has never been publicised as enforcement they just try to keep the motorways running freely or sort problems out when possible to avoid having to send TO’s out so Joe Blog can still complete his journey with minimal delay - end of the day they are just earing a wage like me and you.

[the_real_biffo]

The idiots that slam their brakes on when they see a HATO vehicle, are either going miles too fast, or are short of brain matter!
Drivers are now getting used to HATO vehicles, and know they aren’t police so speed past us immune, only to find Mr Plod further along.
Remember that because we have only traffic management powers and not enforcement, HATO’s don’t need to leave the motorway network to:…
Book someone in & do all the paperwork.
go to court etc
Get co-opted onto “the flavour of the month” issue.
Get called to assist with loutish behaviour at weekend night-times.

if you want to check on the powers that HATO’s have, read http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/ukpga_20040018_en_1

A lot of our calls are for broken down vehicles. Some in live lanes, some with vunerable people, some just idiots who have no idea where they are, have no recovery, money, details etc.etc.
Some of our calls are to RTC’s, live lane and H/S. if there are no injuries, police aren’t required, HATO’s will clear the c/ways and get traffic moving, assist drivers to exchange details, make sure that recovery is arranged.
Lots of calls are for debris on the c/way, HATO’s will clear this by numberous means depending on the circumstances.
Patrols will assist recovery agents to recover/repair vehicles, possibly by rolling road blocks, lane closures etc. (Be aware that they might be asked to wait until after rush hour)

For all the above, you do not need a police officer (apart from injury RTC, and once details taken, the police patrol can leave)

Major incidents, the police/fire/ambo deal with the incident, the HATO at scene is the contact to get any specialist contractor out. Meanwhile, other HATO’s and ISU’s are manning the road closures, again saving on police patrols doing it.
HATO’s will, once everything is under control, then reverse flow the motorists trapped between the last junction and the incident scene. again saving on police patrols doing it.
Once the drivers from the smashed vehicles have been taken away to hospital, unless the incident is a fatal, or could prove fatal, the police will leave to continue with other things, leaving the HATO to clear up the scene, organise any recovery, or repairs to the barriers, network etc.

[bob_parr]

ROG:

**:D :smiley: :smiley: Welcome bob parr :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:**          

bob parr:
I am not surprised to find the anti HATO sentiments

I wonder if the problem is in the pronounciation ‘HATE-O’ - only kidding

Thanks!

[bob_parr]

del949:

includes a position of authority.

perhaps this is part of the problem.

As far as I can see Hato’s don’t really have any proper “authority”.
If they did they would be equivalent to the police, in which case normal police patrols would be more use, and more cost effective.
No matter how Hatos argue their case, they are not , and never will be, a viable alternative to police…IMO

Hi, there is a position of authority, we are civil servants “crown employees”.

We have responsibility and authority for the network and the safety of it’s users (our customers) including HGV’s, TM crews, motorists etcetcetc.

We are empowered under various legislation which is further down.

Drivers can and have been prosecuted for various offences invloving TO’s.

I don’t see my colleagues or I as a “viable” alternative to the Police. I believe that our role has been done to death earlier on in the thread.

Mostly we are freeing up the police to deal with criminality.

Legislation is as follows:

Traffic officer POWERS:

1. For the purposes of this Part the special powers of a traffic officer are the following-
2. powers conferred by sections 6 and 7;
3. powers conferred by orders under section 8; and
4. powers conferred by or under any other Act which are expressed to be special powers for the purposes of this section.
5. The exercise of those powers is subject to the following restrictions.
6. Those powers may only be exercised for one or more of the following purposes-
7. maintaining or improving the movement of traffic on a relevant road over which the traffic officer has jurisdiction by virtue of section 3;
8. preventing or reducing the effect of anything causing (or which has the potential to cause) congestion or other disruption to the movement of traffic on such a road;
9. avoiding danger to persons or other traffic using such a road (or preventing risks of any such danger arising);
10. preventing damage to, or to anything on or near, such a road; or for a purpose incidental to any of those purposes.
11. Subject to that, those powers may be exercised-
12. on or in relation to any relevant road over which the traffic officer has jurisdiction to act by virtue of section 3; or
13. if the condition specified in subsection (5) is met, on or in relation to any other road in England and Wales.
14. The condition is that the traffic officer is acting-
15. at the direction of the chief officer of police for the area in which the road is situated; or
16. with the consent of the traffic authority for the road.
17. A traffic officer may not exercise his special powers on a road unless he is in uniform.

Powers to stop or direct traffic

1. This section confers the following powers on a traffic officer-

2. a power, when the traffic officer is engaged in the regulation of traffic in a road, to direct a person driving or propelling a vehicle-

3. to stop the vehicle, or

4. to make it proceed in, or keep to, a particular line of traffic;

5. a power, for the purposes of a traffic survey of any description which is being carried out on or in the vicinity of a road, to direct a person driving or propelling a vehicle-

6. to stop the vehicle, or

7. to make it proceed in, or keep to, a particular line of traffic, or

8. to proceed to a particular point on or near the road on which the vehicle is being driven or propelled; (subject to the restriction in section 35(3) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52));

9. a power, when the traffic officer is engaged in the regulation of vehicular traffic in a road, to direct persons on foot (or such persons and other traffic) to stop;

10. a power to direct a person driving a mechanically propelled vehicle, or riding a cycle, on a road to stop the vehicle or cycle.

11. In section 35 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (drivers to comply with traffic directions)-

12. in subsection (1)-

13. after “a constable” there is inserted “or traffic officer”;

14. after “duty” there is inserted “or the traffic officer (as the case may be)”;

15. in subsection (2)(b) after “constable” there is inserted “or traffic officer”.

16. In section 37 of that Act (directions to pedestrians)-

17. after “uniform” there is inserted “or traffic officer”;

18. after “duty” there is inserted “or the traffic officer (as the case may be)”.

19. In section 163 of that Act (power of police to stop vehicles), in subsections (1) and (2) after “uniform” there is inserted “or a traffic officer”.

20. In Part 1 of Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (c. 53) (prosecution and punishment of offences under the Traffic Acts), in column 5 of the entry relating to section 35 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 after “constable” there is inserted “, traffic officer”.

Powers to place temporary traffic signs

1. A traffic officer has the powers of a constable under section 67(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27) (power in the case of emergencies and temporary obstructions etc. to place and temporarily maintain traffic signs on a road or on any structure on a road).
2. The references in section 67(1) and (2) to powers conferred by subsection (1) of that section include a reference to the corresponding powers of a traffic officer by virtue of this section.

Power to confer further special powers on traffic officers

1. The appropriate national authority may by order made by statutory instrument confer further special powers on traffic officers.
2. The national authority may not confer a further special power on traffic officers unless it is satisfied that the power is necessary for the purpose of facilitating the performance of any duties which may be assigned to traffic officers.
3. The order may-
4. provide for the enforcement of any special power conferred by the order (whether by the creation of a summary offence or otherwise);
5. make supplemental, incidental, transitional or consequential provision (including provision amending any Act or subordinate legislation).
6. An order under this section may not be made by the Secretary of State unless a draft of the order has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.

[krankee]

Bloody hell. Now there’s even more of them.

They must be breeding.

I did, some weeks ago, take the time to peruse the HATO forum and, TBH, it was quite mundane.

Obviously TN is better entertainment.

Now if we could just get the new Transport Minister to…

[snafu]

The Highway Man:
If we see something blatantly dangerous, we will report it to the police, our only problem is effectively we are just another member of the public to the police, by the time an overstretched police patrol can respond, the offending vehicle is miles away so the driver tends to get away with it. However recently a patrol observed a vehicle driving the wrong way down a slip road before joining the carriageway heading in the right direction. this was reported to the police and the HATO patrol managed to stay behind the car until the police patrol caught up and the driver was arrested. So things are heading in the right direction regarding HATO and police interaction.

To add to what THM says we see many offences, dangerous acts and general stupidity. If we reported them all then we would a) jam up the police and b) there would probably be an element of crying wolf syndrome.

Therefore I am quite careful in what I report. The example THM gives is a good one as this is clearly a serious matter. Another is when we deal with non injury RTCs. Mostly it is a case of exchange details and arrange recovery. Sometimes however you can smell drink or someone is just that bit too keen to say it is all sorted and we are not needed. Then it is time for the BiB.