As I was coming back from work today, I saw the matrix signs on the M180 flashing that the M62 was shut. Was this true?
which ferry was you heading for?
I live in the part of the world that the o/p is talking about and it has been bedlam round here for many months now. The are two lots of roadworks on the A449 that links many Midlands towns to the motorway, which itself has been restricted to 50mph for what seems like forever now. Plus a plethora of closures and roadworks on minor roads, meaning drivers own attempted diversions also fall flat.
I did renew my hgv and psv licenses last year, but traffic has put me off using them.
I’ve only been driving for around 4 and a half years and always driven at night. When I first started your nights could practically be planned to the minute, now it’s pot luck what time you’re going to finish/arrive at customers, if you do a full nightshift without a diversion you’ve done well. I have often wondered just how much all those costs in fuel, wages, fines, missed deliveries etc.
Problem with the UK is we designed this massive motorway network and decided to get rid of the railways, there is maps of it online. We built something like a 1000 miles of it in the 60’s and closed lots of the railway network. Then we ran outta money in the 70’s and took something like 30 years to get to 2000 miles of motorway.
So network never gonna cope cause it unfinished and what we have is only part of the plan, like Birmingham should have been a Western motorway bypass of Wolverhampton, M6 Toll should have been built and free years ago. Same all over the place. So just cant cope with the volume of traffic now these roads are getting really old and cause you can’t close one to properly work on it during the day just trying to patch it up at night. Think some of the roads are really at breaking point congestion wise and actually physical state of the road.
burnley-si:
which ferry was you heading for?
14:10 Holyhead
The road chaos at the moment is nothing to do with politics, chinese investments or getting freight onto the railways … it’s all to do with Prince Charles getting the younger girls and American supremacy dictating the ruination of our country 
pathetic.org.uk/features/mightha … onal.shtml
there is what was meant to be built like they prob did in countries like Germany.
Haven’t managed one journey at night this year from a gig to the next without some kind of roadworks or closure.
Agree with the lack of communication, have been caught up in multiple diversions a couple of times because the secondary route is also closed.
See a lot of irrelevant warning signs on the matrix boards as well warning me of motorway closures that are miles away and pretty unlikely to be on my route given the road that I’m on.
Yes, roadworks have to happen at night. That’s when it’s quietest. But maybe doing one at a time rather than everything at once would cause less disruption.
God knows how much extra fuel our trucks have used this year already.
switchlogic:
More money?! They need less money not more! How much money is being ■■■■■■ away by all these closures!
The money ■■■■■■ away on lorry fuel caused by diverts is tiddly to the money ■■■■■■ away digging up roads. Thought we were tightening our belts Dave?? NHS struggling but we can afford that smart motorway or new interchange with smart new paint because of “safeeety”. Balls. 
I posted this some time ago, an email conversion with a highways bod. Basically they tender out maintenance jobs, and from what I can gather, the jam company turn up and close the road when they bloody feel like, with no thought or care as to who else is closing other roads that night. It seems little has changed…
DaiDap:
Below is an email conversation I had with a HA bod on the subject of matrix signs and road closures.Subject: Info, or lack of Hail log no: 13247482
The M5 is closed tonight at junction 5 northbound, but you already know that. It’s just a pity I didn’t. At no point between the M50 and J5 was there a matrix sign informing me of this. Plenty telling me to use caution because of spray but none to say the motorway is closed. Priorities eh?
And to a trucker who is short of time and aiming for Frankley services this is a problem. Or to any other motorist who is switched on, and wants to avoid the inevitable jam. Just one sign, just one, before Strensham services would’ve sufficed. Is that really too much to ask?
How about you practice what you preach, and THINK?
Yours, DaiDap
Dear Mr. Dap,
Thank you for your email. We regret that you were unsatisfied with the signing on our network on the night of the 20th December 2011.
We were informed of the closure of the M5 Junction 5 at 22:38 hours, and as such numerous VMS were set, including the M5 Northbound before and after Strensham Services.
In addition to this, some VMS were being used for spray related messages, as these take precedence in our ways of working, for safety reasons. Also, immediately prior to Junction 5 there were some MIDAS messages being displayed. These signs display variable speed limits which are triggered to avoid the building up of queues and to encourage drivers to slow down so they don’t collide with the back of queues. Again, these take precedence due to the safety nature of the messages.
However, even though some safety related signs were being displayed, there was still a total of 7 VMS showing the M5 Junction 5 closure message between J9-5 which were displayed all night.
Therefore, it may have been the case that as you were driving at around 23:00 this may unfortunately be a timing issue. There is the possibility that you had passed some of the signs just before they were being set to warn of the closure. This often explains some of the complaints I have seen. Our current policy states that we will not sign for a closure until the closure is confirmed as being live, and therefore there is a danger that some drivers may miss the signs.
I recognise this is a potential flaw within our way of working, however this had been raised to be looked into, I believe. Having said this, I cannot guarantee if we will change how we sign in relation to this specific issue as we are very keen to avoid signing for roadwork’s and closures until we are sure they are going ahead, to avoid potentially misleading the public.
I hope this answers your request. Thank you for your email and please feel free to respond to this email if you have any further queries.
The Highways Agency value all customer feedback and comments, and aim to respond promptly to all enquiries and act on feedback where possible.
Many thanks again,
Andrew Rattan Highways Agency | National Traffic Operations Centre | 3 Ridgeway, Quinton Bus. Park | Birmingham | B32 1AF Rattan,
Dear Mr. Rattan,
Thank you for your reply. I joined the M5 at J8 at approximately 22.05 and left at J5 around 20 minutes later, so it was before you were informed. Are the HA not involved in motorway closures whether they be the result of roadworks or an accident? The cones looked like they’d been there some time as the cones lorry was nowhere to be seen, so the closure was definitely ‘on’ well before I got there. Although I appreciate there may be other agencies involved who are not the quickest in keeping you abreast of the situation.
Hi David,
Yes, it is our contractors who carry out the roadworks on our behalf. Therefore, the general process involves them informing us of roadworks they plan to do in advance (so we can disseminate usually a week before the works), and then informing us when the closure goes live so we can sign for it.
It appears, as you indicate, that this is one of the occasions where the contractor has not informed us quickly enough of the closure. This will be forwarded onto the relevant contractor and region for them to look into.
Thanks again for your email.
Please get in contact again if anything similar arises.
Kind regards,
Andrew Rattan
This is the best can of worms ever opened on trucknet cheers Luke,
All I would like to see happen for maybe one week as a trial switch off all the managed motorway systems especially the M42 
Switch of the poxy matrix signs with all the lies they tell us y the f–k do I need to no if some motorway is apparently shut even if I’m 200mile away crazy
Park up all the highway patrol cars and the muppets who drive them make them pick up the litter and ■■■■ bottles from the lay byes 
Let’s go back to basics never seemed to have half the problems as we do now since these systems where put to use on our motorways is easy for someone to shut a motorway down from some nice warm control room for some stupid reason they really do not seem to grasp the effect it has on people’s daily lives and the economy
Kenny1975:
Might Have Been Map - Overviewthere is what was meant to be built like they prob did in countries like Germany.
To be fair Germany runs a close second to the UK as the most hateful place to drive a lorry!
raymundo:
The road chaos at the moment is nothing to do with politics, chinese investments or getting freight onto the railways … it’s all to do with Prince Charles getting the younger girls and American supremacy dictating the ruination of our country
And there was me thinking it was Napoleon.
Btw for anyone who doesn’t know You And Yours is a consumer affairs programme so doesn’t really have a political angle. It’s on Radio 4 at 12:15 (midday) every week day m it’s actually very informative. Will approach them now I’ve a load of your views
The man operating the gantry warning signs
is agency and has a limp.
Joking aside, Luke has started a good thread that needs answers from the Wombles.
m1cks:
You need to wait until after the election and then contact whoever becomes the minister of transport.
Since when did a Minister of Transport know anything about transport?
Remember back to the Minister of Transport that didn’t even have a ■■■■■■■ driving licence!
switchlogic:
Btw for anyone who doesn’t know You And Yours is a consumer affairs programme so doesn’t really have a political angle. It’s on Radio 4
Firstly the regulation of road transport is all about politics not ‘consumer affairs’.Which would soon be made clear in the case of any dissent against the idea of ‘managed’/‘smart’ motorways and/or unjustified road closures.Which are mostly/all about road rationing and/or reducing speeds in order to protect the rail sector interests.
DaiDap:
I posted this some time ago, an email conversion with a highways bod. Basically they tender out maintenance jobs, and from what I can gather, the jam company turn up and close the road when they bloody feel like, with no thought or care as to who else is closing other roads that night. It seems little has changed…DaiDap:
Below is an email conversation I had with a HA bod on the subject of matrix signs and road closures.Subject: Info, or lack of Hail log no: 13247482
The M5 is closed tonight at junction 5 northbound, but you already know that. It’s just a pity I didn’t. At no point between the M50 and J5 was there a matrix sign informing me of this. Plenty telling me to use caution because of spray but none to say the motorway is closed. Priorities eh?
And to a trucker who is short of time and aiming for Frankley services this is a problem. Or to any other motorist who is switched on, and wants to avoid the inevitable jam. Just one sign, just one, before Strensham services would’ve sufficed. Is that really too much to ask?
How about you practice what you preach, and THINK?
Yours, DaiDap
Dear Mr. Dap,
Thank you for your email. We regret that you were unsatisfied with the signing on our network on the night of the 20th December 2011.
We were informed of the closure of the M5 Junction 5 at 22:38 hours, and as such numerous VMS were set, including the M5 Northbound before and after Strensham Services.
In addition to this, some VMS were being used for spray related messages, as these take precedence in our ways of working, for safety reasons. Also, immediately prior to Junction 5 there were some MIDAS messages being displayed. These signs display variable speed limits which are triggered to avoid the building up of queues and to encourage drivers to slow down so they don’t collide with the back of queues. Again, these take precedence due to the safety nature of the messages.
However, even though some safety related signs were being displayed, there was still a total of 7 VMS showing the M5 Junction 5 closure message between J9-5 which were displayed all night.
Therefore, it may have been the case that as you were driving at around 23:00 this may unfortunately be a timing issue. There is the possibility that you had passed some of the signs just before they were being set to warn of the closure. This often explains some of the complaints I have seen. Our current policy states that we will not sign for a closure until the closure is confirmed as being live, and therefore there is a danger that some drivers may miss the signs.
I recognise this is a potential flaw within our way of working, however this had been raised to be looked into, I believe. Having said this, I cannot guarantee if we will change how we sign in relation to this specific issue as we are very keen to avoid signing for roadwork’s and closures until we are sure they are going ahead, to avoid potentially misleading the public.
I hope this answers your request. Thank you for your email and please feel free to respond to this email if you have any further queries.
The Highways Agency value all customer feedback and comments, and aim to respond promptly to all enquiries and act on feedback where possible.
Many thanks again,
Andrew Rattan Highways Agency | National Traffic Operations Centre | 3 Ridgeway, Quinton Bus. Park | Birmingham | B32 1AF Rattan,
Dear Mr. Rattan,
Thank you for your reply. I joined the M5 at J8 at approximately 22.05 and left at J5 around 20 minutes later, so it was before you were informed. Are the HA not involved in motorway closures whether they be the result of roadworks or an accident? The cones looked like they’d been there some time as the cones lorry was nowhere to be seen, so the closure was definitely ‘on’ well before I got there. Although I appreciate there may be other agencies involved who are not the quickest in keeping you abreast of the situation.
Hi David,
Yes, it is our contractors who carry out the roadworks on our behalf. Therefore, the general process involves them informing us of roadworks they plan to do in advance (so we can disseminate usually a week before the works), and then informing us when the closure goes live so we can sign for it.
It appears, as you indicate, that this is one of the occasions where the contractor has not informed us quickly enough of the closure. This will be forwarded onto the relevant contractor and region for them to look into.
Thanks again for your email.
Please get in contact again if anything similar arises.
Kind regards,
Andrew Rattan
Those emails show the highways agency for what thay are, inept and not fit for purpose. I find it incredible that there isn’t a plan or timetable for the work being carried out. And the lack of communications between HA and contractors is amazing. If a road closure is planned, all it takes is a phone call to confirm.
As for not wanting to put duff info on the matrix signs ( because that never happens) whats wrong with having “planned closure” displayed. At least give drivers an option to chance it or plan alternative routes.
Why are we having the same problems three and half years after your emails when I’ve come up with potential solutions (better communication between partners and “potential closure” warnings) in two minutes.
Happy sack:
This is the best can of worms ever opened on trucknet cheers Luke,
.
Park up all the highway patrol cars and the muppets
.
This bit is already happening apparently , strategic park-ups, go when called they reckon, 
When was the last time you saw them routinely patrolling ?
Having recently been stuck at Dartford tunnel northbound for 2 hours it got me thinking, the Hindhead tunnel is actually longer than Dartford and causes no hold ups, has no speed or height restrictions, or hazardous restrictions that I’m aware of, and it’s free, in fact it’s a pleasure to drive through it. So why should Dartford be so much different, I know there’s more traffic but it’s 4 lanes on approach and 4 lanes through tunnels so the only reason I can see for these constant delays is bad management.